Smallc Posted September 1, 2015 Report Posted September 1, 2015 Typical. More excuses. Just like the economic god, himself. He doesn't take responsibility for being one of the worst, if not the worst, Prime Minister Canada has had when you look at the economic record. Canada has generally occupied the top half of the growth chart for the G7 since Harper took power. It will now be in the middle, exactly where it was under PM Martin. I'm hoping that at least a few of the 36% who voted for Harper, can finally accept and admit that Harper has been terrible at handling the economy. The rest will continue to be in denial. I won't be voting for Harper this time - your statement still isn't true. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted September 1, 2015 Report Posted September 1, 2015 I won't be voting for Harper this time I like that. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
ReeferMadness Posted September 1, 2015 Report Posted September 1, 2015 The pre-global recession numbers look much different than the post-global recession numbers. Perhaps some type of indication should be made to have an intellectually honest discussion. Also, referencing the extremelyl weak Obama economy should be noted. hahaha So, here it is, folks. Harper can't be blamed for our weak economy but Obama can be blamed for theirs. Please, do go on with your lecture about intellectual honesty. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Civis Romanus sum Posted September 2, 2015 Report Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Harper did have a lot to do with putting all of his eggs in one volatile basket This is the theory that Harper created the oil industry, right? And that he focused Canada's entire economy on it? I read this a lot, but the thing which gets me is that the oil industry took a giant hammering at the beginning of the year, and the rest of natural resources did to, and yet things are still pretty good in Canada. The technical recession hasn't really spilled over into anything outside the oil industry, unemployment has hardly budged, and the rest of the economy seems to be working well. So would someone explain to me how Harper put all our eggs in one basket, and the basket got dropped, but our eggs still seem to be pretty much intact? Edited September 2, 2015 by Civis Romanus sum Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 2, 2015 Report Posted September 2, 2015 Former Conservative MP Brent Rathgeber's take on Harper's predicament. I strongly suspected on Sunday, when Jason Kenney was dispatched to the Sunday morning political talk shows to attempt to redefine the definition of a recession, to exclude Canada's current lacklustre performance, that the Stats Canada Report had been leaked to the government and that damage control had begun. Regarding Canada's fiscal policies, I quite enjoyed Stephen Harper mocking Justin Trudeau over the latter's policy announcement of running three deficits in order to fund much-needed infrastructure. It seems rich for a prime minister, who has tabled seven consecutive deficit budgets (likely eight due to the downturn in our economy resulting in decreased tax revenue) to criticize deficit financing. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Civis Romanus sum Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) To me, that's why Harper's apologists don't get to just do the lament about falling oil prices! He was the one who banked on oil at $100 a barrel when he started his strategy of big tarsands and pipeline expansions. If it didn't work out for him, that says lots about his economic leadership abilities we hear so much of from rightwing sources! The Conservatives, like every government in Canadian history, have done their best to encourage all industries, including all natural resource industries. I'm not aware of any change in that regard between them and the Liberals who preceded them. I'm also unaware of any country on Earth which has not done its best to develop its oil industry. Edited September 3, 2015 by Civis Romanus sum Quote
Civis Romanus sum Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 Typical. More excuses. Just like the economic god, himself. He doesn't take responsibility for being one of the worst, if not the worst, Prime Minister Canada has had when you look at the economic record. I would put Pierre Trudeau in that chair, though my knowledge of the inadequacies of Prime Ministers is kind of shaky going further back. Certainly Trudeau was the worst in my lifetime by any realistic judgement. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted September 4, 2015 Report Posted September 4, 2015 I would put Pierre Trudeau in that chair, though my knowledge of the inadequacies of Prime Ministers is kind of shaky going further back. Certainly Trudeau was the worst in my lifetime by any realistic judgement. In regards to the numbers and analysis done, Harper's economic record is below Trudeau's and other prime ministers since the 50's, in pretty much every category. Source Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 In regards to the numbers and analysis done, Harper's economic record is below Trudeau's and other prime ministers since the 50's, in pretty much every category. Source Thats horse shit and you know it.....Canada's national debt rose some almost 739 % under trudeau's tenor....from 18.75 bil to 157.2 bil....kind of hard not to put his successes into perspective.... http://www.taxpayer.com/media/CoverStory24-27WEB.pdf Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Thats horse shit and you know it..... yes - that's exactly what your interpretation of that graphic is! Why target the rate increase and ignore the actual debt amount... particularly those 'mountain climbs' of both Mulroney and Harper? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 R.B. Bennett's average economic growth rate from 1935 to 1948-2.34% Stephen Harper's between 2006 and present-1.77% Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) yes - that's exactly what your interpretation of that graphic is! Why target the rate increase and ignore the actual debt amount... particularly those 'mountain climbs' of both Mulroney and Harper? I was responding to a poster that suggested that trudeau had a better economic record than Harper....and no i did not ignore the actual amounts..... Edited September 5, 2015 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Scotty Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 In regards to the numbers and analysis done, Harper's economic record is below Trudeau's and other prime ministers since the 50's, in pretty much every category. Source In your less than unbiased opinion. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Come on waldo even you can understand that any one could improve your position on any graphs if you pour bils into them.....The National debt has to be taken into consideration , along with the economic times....i can make anything look good with a few graphs maybe even you.... that's rich! You're the one ignoring the actual debt amounts... as for taking "economic times" into consideration, again, the 2008 recession barely impacted upon Canada... 3 quarters period... - per StatsCan: Canada's (first Harper) recession was the shortest and mildest among the countries that make up the G7... lasting all of 3 quarters! "Canada's 'mild & short" recession resulted more from how Canada was positioned going into the recession; positioned as a result of policy/actions over the prior decade where the Liberal federal governments had budget and trade surpluses for most of that prior decade. Of course, Canada's banks were solid and there was no ongoing/pending housing bubble. All of this helped to diminish any credit crunch when banks ultimately tightened up on loans. Additionally high commodity prices helped to reduce the initial recession impact; effectively Canada entered the recession well after most other countries. Milder, shorter and entered later... resulting in, again, only a 3 quarter recession." as for Harper's second recession, Canada is the only G7 country to be in recession #HarperEggsInOneBasket Quote
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 In your less than unbiased opinion. you could attempt to counter the source provided... with your own 'less than unbiased opinion' Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 that's rich! You're the one ignoring the actual debt amounts... as for taking "economic times" into consideration, again, the 2008 recession barely impacted upon Canada... 3 quarters period... - per StatsCan: Canada's (first Harper) recession was the shortest and mildest among the countries that make up the G7... lasting all of 3 quarters! "Canada's 'mild & short" recession resulted more from how Canada was positioned going into the recession; positioned as a result of policy/actions over the prior decade where the Liberal federal governments had budget and trade surpluses for most of that prior decade. Of course, Canada's banks were solid and there was no ongoing/pending housing bubble. All of this helped to diminish any credit crunch when banks ultimately tightened up on loans. Additionally high commodity prices helped to reduce the initial recession impact; effectively Canada entered the recession well after most other countries. Milder, shorter and entered later... resulting in, again, only a 3 quarter recession." as for Harper's second recession, Canada is the only G7 country to be in recession #HarperEggsInOneBasket Take a look at the debt amounts then.....Trudeau spent 139.1 Bil dollars making his record look good..... Harper spent 60.4 bil ...did i miss something waldo......According to the NDP, and Liberals they say Harper was responsible in 2 recessions.....so what is it....one or two.....i guess we can play with numbers as long as it serves our needs....anyways.....How many recessions did trudeau have again.....id look better if i spent twice as much as well driving the country in to this endless spiral of debt.......the guy that sent us down that path.....he has a better economic record than harper....give me a break.... I was responding to a post , check it out....might put this into context.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Take a look at the debt amounts then..... I was responding to a post , check it out....might put this into context.... again... you're selectively pulling from that graphic source YOU PROVIDED! You're quite content to target Pierre Trudeau, but you completely ignore the "mountain of debt" Mulroney is responsible for. That's your... context? Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 again... you're selectively pulling from that graphic source YOU PROVIDED! You're quite content to target Pierre Trudeau, but you completely ignore the "mountain of debt" Mulroney is responsible for. That's your... context? OK waldo below is the post i was targeting.....please note there is no mention of any other PM other than harper and trudeau Pierre type, comparing economic records.....So armed with that info, I am selectively pulling from a source I PROVIDED .....to prove other wise....Trudeau used 139.1 bil dollars to improve his economic record, and drove us into debt, which has spiraled to what it is today...Harper part of this whole issue is 60.4 bil....and is accredited with two recessions.....thats according to the NDP, and Liberal candidates, and they can't be wrong can they..... In regards to the numbers and analysis done, Harper's economic record is below Trudeau's and other prime ministers since the 50's, in pretty much every category. Source Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 OK waldo below is the post i was targeting.....please note there is no mention of any other PM other than harper and trudeau Pierre type, comparing economic records.....So armed with that info, I am selectively pulling from a source I PROVIDED .....to prove other wise....Trudeau used 139.1 bil dollars to improve his economic record, and drove us into debt, which has spiraled to what it is today...Harper part of this whole issue is 60.4 bil....and is accredited with two recessions.....thats according to the NDP, and Liberal candidates, and they can't be wrong can they..... huh! The post you just put up... the one you're wanting to emphasize is the post you were responding to, that post specifically states, "Trudeau's and other prime ministers since the 50's" ... of course, you didn't actually address the post itself (and the source provided); instead, you linked your graphic and decided to target ONLY Trudeau while ignoring Mulroney... completely ignoring that debt Mulroney added. At the same time you have the gall to write "drove us into debt which has spiraled to what it is today"! In your claimed "spiraling" you just choose to ignore Mulroney! And why? Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Want the truth waldo, i was taken back that anyone would say trudeau's economic record was better than anyones.....Then provide a source that even suggested it...and yet not put anything into context like how trudeau boosted his numbers.....by throwing the nation into a massive debt.....I'm not the only one in history to have the GALL to throw Trudeau under the bus where he belongs.....goggle it there is lots of them.....and they have the same thing to say that it was this PM that started the ball rolling...... Want to talk about Mulroney.....talk...he is another black eye on Canada debt problem one of the largest contributors, with 330.3 bil dollars added...I was not singling out just the liberals.....PC had a large hand to play here as well, not sure what your point is or was..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Want the truth waldo, i was taken back that anyone would say trudeau's economic record was better than anyones.....Then provide a source that even suggested it... Want to talk about Mulroney.....talk...he is another black eye on Canada debt problem one of the largest contributors, with 330.3 bil dollars added...I was not singling out just the liberals.....PC had a large hand to play here as well, not sure what your point is or was..... again, you don't have to agree with the source provided... of course not! But you didn't even attempt to address it... it's a fairly detailed 60+ page article/study that has defined criteria, a defined methodology and related results that rank all Prime Ministers. All you did was drop in a graphic targeted on nothing more than debt... and then you selectively picked at that graphic to isolate Trudeau only... and you initially focused only on rate! my "wanting to talk about Mulroney" is simply to put perspective on your most selective mining from your provided graphic. And yes, you most certainly were singling out as you didn't mention any other PM. Quote
Army Guy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 again, you don't have to agree with the source provided... of course not! But you didn't even attempt to address it... it's a fairly detailed 60+ page article/study that has defined criteria, a defined methodology and related results that rank all Prime Ministers. All you did was drop in a graphic targeted on nothing more than debt... and then you selectively picked at that graphic to isolate Trudeau only... and you initially focused only on rate! my "wanting to talk about Mulroney" is simply to put perspective on your most selective mining from your provided graphic. And yes, you most certainly were singling out as you didn't mention any other PM. yes it was and it did have defined criteria....but are you saying that with all trudeau's spending, that those criteria were not influenced in any way.....in my opinion debt tells a huge part of the story i was trying to uncover.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 yes it was and it did have defined criteria....but are you saying that with all trudeau's spending, that those criteria were not influenced in any way.....in my opinion debt tells a huge part of the story i was trying to uncover.... yes, I most certainly pointed out your most selective and self-serving "trying to uncover"! Let see if I get your latest wrinkle: Conservative spending to increase debt is just benign... Liberal spending that results in increased debt "influences criteria"! Again, you quoted the study link and proceeded to completely ignore it by presuming to counter with a graphic on debt that you mined for your purposes/agenda! Good on ya! Quote
Scotty Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 you could attempt to counter the source provided... with your own 'less than unbiased opinion' It was a bullshit source, so it didn't need any countering. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 again... you're selectively pulling from that graphic source YOU PROVIDED! You're quite content to target Pierre Trudeau, but you completely ignore the "mountain of debt" Mulroney is responsible for. That's your... context? Trudeau ran up the debt and left it to Mulroney when the interest rates were in the high double digits, and so was the unemployment rate. Guess what happens when you owe a ton of money and there's high interest rates... Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
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