Smallc Posted August 10, 2015 Report Posted August 10, 2015 The average person might slap some paint up and be eligible for a couple hundred bucks. People who can afford thousands of dollars in renos will be the real beneficiaries of this tax subsidy. The middle class? Yeah, that's what I said. Quote
The_Squid Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Posted August 10, 2015 The middle class? Yeah, that's what I said. People who can afford thousands of dollars in renovations to a home they own shouldn't be getting tax freebies for doing so. Quote
PrimeNumber Posted August 10, 2015 Report Posted August 10, 2015 People who can afford thousands of dollars in renovations to a home they own shouldn't be getting tax freebies for doing so. Exactly. Adding more value to homes is not what we should be doing right now. Nor promising to do. It's irresponsible. The only aspects of the economy, Real estate and Construction, that do not need a boost. What a stupid promise. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
Smallc Posted August 10, 2015 Report Posted August 10, 2015 People who can afford thousands of dollars in renovations to a home they own shouldn't be getting tax freebies for doing so. Better than giving it to someone who didn't earn it. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 Better than giving it to someone who didn't earn it. That's for damn sure....homeowners are already carrying far more tax load. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 Better than giving it to someone who didn't earn it. What about not giving it away to get a few votes and running us into further debt? Quote
Smallc Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 What about not giving it away to get a few votes and running us into further debt? Letting people keep more of their money isn't giving it away, and this promise is contingent on it being affordable within the scope of a balanced budget. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 Letting people keep more of their money isn't giving it away, and this promise is contingent on it being affordable within the scope of a balanced budget. When do you reckon we will ever see a balanced budget, unless Harper kicks horse turds down the road in October? Quote
Smallc Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 When do you reckon we will ever see a balanced budget, unless Harper kicks horse turds down the road in October? This year. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 This year. Good luck with that. Don't think oil prices are going to even come close to rebounding enough for that. And I don't think there are any more shares to sell off, even at a loss like the GM ones. Quote
cybercoma Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 Better than giving it to someone who didn't earn it. So you think the role of the government should be to help those who can help themselves, as opposed to making sure that people aren't living in poverty and are able to get back on their feet as soon as possible? Quote
Smallc Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 So you think the role of the government should be to help those who can help themselves, as opposed to making sure that people aren't living in poverty and are able to get back on their feet as soon as possible? I think that both things should be done. I think that when people can work (most people can) a lifetime of support should be out of the question. This credit encourages spending in the economy. It's kind of a win win. Quote
cybercoma Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 Letting people keep more of their money I keep hearing this crap from greedy self-serving "libertarians" who seem to forget that we live in a society and that the health of that society directly affects their wealth and well-being as well. Quote
cybercoma Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 I think that both things should be done. I think that when people can work (most people can) a lifetime of support should be out of the question. This credit encourages spending in the economy. It's kind of a win win. "A lifetime of support," eh? Somebody's advocating for that here somewhere? Quote
Smallc Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 "A lifetime of support," eh? Somebody's advocating for that here somewhere? That's what exists right now in many provinces. I see this tax credit which will help to create jobs as a better use of resources. Quote
msj Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 I think that both things should be done. I think that when people can work (most people can) a lifetime of support should be out of the question. This credit encourages spending in the economy. It's kind of a win win. I agree about a lifetime of support should be out of the question. I also think making a home renovation tax credit a permanent amount is an unnecessary distortion to our tax system when simply lowering, say, the lowest rate from 15% to 14% would do the trick. Why should home-owners get a lifetime of subsidy for home renovations? Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Smallc Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 I agree about a lifetime of support should be out of the question. I also think making a home renovation tax credit a permanent amount is an unnecessary distortion to our tax system when simply lowering, say, the lowest rate from 15% to 14% would do the trick. Why should home-owners get a lifetime of subsidy for home renovations? I agree with you 100%. I'm not the biggest fan of all of these boutique tax cuts. Things would be much different were I in charge. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 I think we have the classic conundrum of "should we buy someone a fish or a fishing rod". The left are always looking for the band-aid solution, while the right are always trying to help people help themselves. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Black Dog Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 I think we have the classic conundrum of "should we buy someone a fish or a fishing rod". The left are always looking for the band-aid solution, while the right are always trying to help people help themselves. FTFY Quote
Hal 9000 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 FTFY How can you look at the real truth of who is paying into the tax system and say that? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Black Dog Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 How can you look at the real truth of who is paying into the tax system and say that? What does the fact we have a progressive taxation system have to do with your premise, which is itself divorced from the subject of boutique tax credits? Quote
WIP Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 Wages haven't been driven down for younger people. They've been drive out of jobs. Have you looked around at the cashiers and fast food workers lately? They're all grey-haired or have trouble speaking english. Where are the kids and youth? Living with their parents into their late 20s now because they can't finance their own independence anymore. But don't take my word for it. Take a look around you. That's true, but what I was referring to is how some industrial trades like welding, machining, tool&die etc. have been degraded, not only through the general decline in manufacturing, but also because the government has allowed piecemeal attacks on trades like welding - where a company can just train complete novices at the spot welding techniques required to perform the job, without having to go through the fully accredited apprenticeship process. The welders in such a shop can become expert at what they do, and their skills and expertise are not transferable outside of that employer. If they leave for a new welding job, they likely have to start all over again at the lowest level. Certainly, most of the collapse in earning power for young people today is because of the trend towards part-time, casual, and contract work (also trends that could have been stopped by government), but even within many job categories, the trends in pay have been downward over time. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
WIP Posted August 11, 2015 Report Posted August 11, 2015 I think the article does show that in relative terms minimum wage was lower in the 80's. But, beyond that, actual cost of living has either remained the same or is even lower than the 80's. I can tell from personal experience that you're just pulling this out of your ass! Because I left home in 1976 and worked a number of low and minimum wage jobs for several years. As long as I had fulltime hours, I had enough money to pay rent, buy food, even to go out on the weekends. The only thing I couldn't afford was a car....because of the insurance and costs of keeping a car on the road. Big difference back then, was I left home to split on a two bedroom apartment for $135 a month, and then had to get my own bachelor for $70 a month. Maybe those numbers should provide a little perspective on what the cost of living was in the 70's and 80's compared to now. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Hal 9000 Posted August 15, 2015 Report Posted August 15, 2015 All anecdotal evidence based on your word... Forgive me that I still ask for an actual cite. OK, so I'll give some "cites", although ignorance will prevent you from actually even believing this, but... http://www.mh-audio.nl/tips%5Ccdhistory.htm This shows CD players costing $700-1000 and Cd's $15-$20. Numbers are USD, which means that in Canada Cd's were actually $20-25 bucks in the 80's. The prices for Cd's and CD players have dropped drastically starting in the 1990's. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-402-x/2011000/chap/prices-prix/prices-prix02-eng.htm We all know that food prices have generally dropped or at least remained below the rate of inflation. The above is only a sample of a few items, but it does show a trend. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/university-tuition-rising-to-record-levels-in-canada-1.1699103 University (or schooling) has remained consistent with the rate of minimum wage since 1990. In 1990, the the minimum wage was 5$ and tuition was average $2800, today minimum wage is $10 and average tuition in BC is about $5600 - I call that a wash, but add in cost of living being easier today and the ability to go to university actually becomes a little easier. http://www.wishbookweb.com Here is the Sears wishbook for several years. I have chosen to peruse the 1987 year, although WIP's posts had me recheck the late 1970's books as well. I know you won't even bother, so i'll post some highlights; Women's sweaters - $38-50 Jackets $100 Elec. Razor $60-150 Watch (ironman) $45-60 Shoes/Boots $50-80 on sale Flanel shirts $38-45 Leather Jacket $300..on sale for $200 Toaster $30-40 Toaster oven $70-75 Food Processor $200 Coffee maker $50-90 Recliner $200-400 Queen bed $700, King $1000 Vacuum $340 Washer/dryer set $1200 on sale Microwave $250 Fridge $1200, Side by side $2200 Stove $1800 Table top BBQ $100, regular $800 Circ. Saw, drill, scroller, router, sander - All $100+ each - on sale Socket set $100 Tape Player $110-250 Stereo (no Cd player) $650-750 27" TV $1200-1500 VCR $500-$750 SLR camera $540 on sale for $440 Treadmill $1000, stationary bike $600 Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Evening Star Posted August 17, 2015 Report Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) OK, so I'll give some "cites", although ignorance will prevent you from actually even believing this, but... http://www.mh-audio.nl/tips%5Ccdhistory.htm This shows CD players costing $700-1000 and Cd's $15-$20. Numbers are USD, which means that in Canada Cd's were actually $20-25 bucks in the 80's. The prices for Cd's and CD players have dropped drastically starting in the 1990's. Prices for CDs and CD players have plummeted since people stopped buying them in anything close to the same numbers and switched to encoded files (mp3s, WAVS, etc). This does not really demonstrate anything about the cost of living, unless your point is that mp3s are cheaper than CDs, which is true but not an apples-to-apples comparison. (This is not representative either but it's interesting to compare with what has happened to concert ticket prices: http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/08/08/concert-tickets-resellers-editorials-debates/2633507/) http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/university-tuition-rising-to-record-levels-in-canada-1.1699103 University (or schooling) has remained consistent with the rate of minimum wage since 1990. In 1990, the the minimum wage was 5$ and tuition was average $2800, today minimum wage is $10 and average tuition in BC is about $5600 - I call that a wash, but add in cost of living being easier today and the ability to go to university actually becomes a little easier. Compare this to the increases in AB (377%), SK (308%), and ON (340%). Edited August 17, 2015 by Evening Star Quote
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