Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 youbet... you repeatedly talk of evidence in regards to "no need for immigration increases". I mentioned to you I hadn't been actively following the thread; I asked (twice now) if you might consider pointing me to your post(s) where you provided/cited that evidence. Apparently, this post of yours that I've quoted is the best you can do. So your intellectual laziness extends to being unwilling to glance back through a not-terribly lengthy topic? Sorry, but since I don't consider you to be a person with any real interest in discussion, I'll let you go find them yourself rather than saving you the bother. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
marcus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 That might be bigotry, but it isn't racism. It's about cultural differences, not skin colour. Because of your reflexive horror, you can't tell the difference. Bigotry.. I guess it makes him less of an ugly person? Racial discrimination is defined as the following in terms of international law: the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. Argus wants to push racial discrimination and wants people to be okay with it. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Someone can counter that they are not racist, but when it comes to some comments and positions, it's pretty clear whether that person is a racist or not. For example, when someone speaks out against immigration and their reason is the following bigoted, stereotyped and blanket comment: No, we owe our children to preserve what we made for them, not to bury it in a mass of illiterate foreign goat herders who have no job skills, will never pay any taxes That person is clearly a racist and a bigot. And yet, unlike you, I don't hate Jews. How confusing! The quote you mention above was taken from a discussion of the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from African and the middle east flooding into Europe in search of wealth and welfare. Your position, as I recall, was that all of them should be welcomed, regardless of what that does to the social fabric of the nations there, to say nothing of their economic health. Mine is that they need to be turned back. I fail to see how that is either racist or bigoted. Is it the term 'goat herder' which so horrifies you? It's an accurate one given most of the illegal immigrants have no job skills and little or no education. Most don't speak any European language either. Edited August 23, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Bigotry.. I guess it makes him less of an ugly person? Racial discrimination is defined as the following in terms of international law: the term "racial discrimination" But I don't discriminate based on race. So your entire long-winded bleating complaint goes right down the toilet, which is where most of your beliefs originate, actually. Argus wants to push racial discrimination and wants people to be okay with it. I don't push racial discrimination, and I really don't think a Jew baiter like you can rightfully lecture anyone on bigotry. Edited August 23, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
marcus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 And yet, unlike you, I don't hate Jews. How confusing! Maybe Charles Anthony or Michael Hardner can weigh in on this. I am curious how a comment like that should be treated. I have asked time and time again for Argus and others who attack anyone who criticizes Israel or Zionism by calling them "anti-Semites" or "Jew haters", to cite a specific comment I have made that would constitute hatred or racism. They have never been able to do so. Isn't Argus' comment defamation? Isn't it against forum rules? Why does he and others like Rue get to continue to make these comments? Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
waldo Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 So your intellectual laziness extends to being unwilling to glance back through a not-terribly lengthy topic? Sorry, but since I don't consider you to be a person with any real interest in discussion, I'll let you go find them yourself rather than saving you the bother. well... it is 16 pages in length. No worries, I appreciate you can quite easily pull a deflecting "go fetch" routine rather than suffer under waldoSrutiny of your "claimed evidence"! Quote
marcus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 Is it the term 'goat herder' which so horrifies you? It's an accurate one given most of the illegal immigrants have no job skills and little or no education. Most don't speak any European language either. No Argus. It's not an accurate term. It's a stupid stereotype that is not backed by any logic or rational. You're a bigot and an ugly person. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Smallc Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 Argus wants to push racial discrimination and wants people to be okay with it. Others, worse still, want to make up definitions, or extend the word race to that which it doesn't apply to. Quote
Vega Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 Parliament can change the system however they like. Of course, but do we have caps on the number of immigrants? Quote
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Maybe Charles Anthony or Michael Hardner can weigh in on this. I am curious how a comment like that should be treated. I have asked time and time again for Argus and others who attack anyone who criticizes Israel or Zionism by calling them "anti-Semites" or "Jew haters", to cite a specific comment I have made that would constitute hatred or racism. They have never been able to do so. It must be frustrating. I understand. Really I do! You work so hard to disguise it, using weasel words about 'zionists' and putting on the noble front of how you're really only concerned with the human rights of the Palestinians! Hating Jews!? Phshaw, the furthest thing from your mind! Of course, you want all the Jews out of Israel, but that's just a concern for fundamental justice! Not that you care about the brutality and vicious torture and mass murder being carried out BY Palestinians on their own people, or by Syrians or Lebanese or Iranians or Iraqis or Egyptians or Sudanese or anyone else. None of that concerns you in the slightest. Your narrow focus is only on the comparably mild abuses being done by uhm Jews. But it's not because they're Jews! Of course not! The fact brutality a hundred, or even a thousand times worse is taking place all around Israel, and which you have zero concern with, shouldn't be taken to mean your focus on Israel is based on them being Jews! Of course not! It's uhmmm... it's because uhm... uhm... gee. I'm trying, help me out here. I'm not getting it. I'm not finding one logical, intelligent reason to focus on Israel to the exclusion of all others other than the obvious. They're Jews. Edited August 23, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 No Argus. It's not an accurate term. It's a stupid stereotype that is not backed by any logic or rational. You're a bigot and an ugly person. I'm far from a bigot and actually an incredibly gorgeous person! Want to see a picture! Here's an interesting irony. You've spent lots of time on this site decrying the way all those 'white jews' flooded into Israel and displaced the local Arabs. Yet here you are calling me names because I don't support masses of Muslims flooding into Europe to displace the local Christians. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 Of course, but do we have caps on the number of immigrants? It's set yearly. For quite some time it's been about a quarter million a year. This spring, for no particular reason (nothing to do with the election, of course!) Harper increased it to 300,000, but just for this year. Mulcair wants to increase it to 1% of the population permanently. For those of you who are challenged by numbers. That means we'd be bringing in 10% of our entire population every ten years. And as our population rises, of course, the number of immigrants would rise in tandem. Most of those immigrants will be from the third world, with social and cultural values way, way different than ours. But hey, they'll be integrated into the mainstream, right? What happens when the number of foreigners are so high they become the mainstream? There's more foreign born people in Toronto and Vancouver now than Canadian born, and the foreign born numbers are rising every year. When the foreign born are 75% of the population, just what kind of integration do you think is going to be taking place? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 I'm trying, help me out here. I'm not getting it. I'm not finding one logical, intelligent reason to focus on Israel to the exclusion of all others other than the obvious. They're Jews. standard BS "argument" put forward in so many MLW threads! Always intended to belittle, marginalize and de-legitimize a critical view taken against Jews/Israel. Apparently, unless one actively speaks to "everything/everywhere", one can't speak to a singular target focus. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 No Argus. It's not an accurate term. It's a stupid stereotype that is not backed by any logic or rational. You're a bigot and an ugly person. You notice how he tried to slip the word "illegal" in there as well. Crafty eh? Not so much. Quote
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 standard BS "argument" put forward in so many MLW threads! Always intended to belittle, marginalize and de-legitimize a critical view taken against Jews/Israel. Apparently, unless one actively speaks to "everything/everywhere", one can't speak to a singular target focus. Not at all. Except there are certain people who ONLY target Israel, who put 90% of their time here into criticizing Israel, and everything about Israel, from its founding to its existence, all under the mask of crocodile tears about its human rights violations. Given the people they are so frantically defending have zero respect for human rights of any kind, it seems more than a tad.... odd. Hey, Waldo, going to the gay pride parade in Tehran!? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 You notice how he tried to slip the word "illegal" in there as well. Crafty eh? Not so much. Oh right! <slaps forehead> How could I forget how the politically correct have changed the term to 'migrants' from 'illegal immigrants', because, gosh darn, it just sounds so much friendlier! Of course, the politically correct seldom have much acquaintance with reality or truth. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 Oh right! <slaps forehead> How could I forget how the politically correct have changed the term to 'migrants' from 'illegal immigrants', because, gosh darn, it just sounds so much friendlier! Of course, the politically correct seldom have much acquaintance with reality or truth. Lets make sure we give Harper his due. When he said we needed more immigration, I don't think he meant illegal immigrants. Quote
waldo Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 What happens when the number of foreigners are so high they become the mainstream? There's more foreign born people in Toronto and Vancouver now than Canadian born, and the foreign born numbers are rising every year. When the foreign born are 75% of the population, just what kind of integration do you think is going to be taking place? what will happen? You mean... "whitey on the run"? Isn't your use of "foreign born", your code-word for non-white? Not at all. Except there are certain people who ONLY target Israel, who put 90% of their time here into criticizing Israel, and everything about Israel, from its founding to its existence, all under the mask of crocodile tears about its human rights violations. Given the people they are so frantically defending have zero respect for human rights of any kind, it seems more than a tad.... odd. Hey, Waldo, going to the gay pride parade in Tehran!? thanks for reaffirming what I just said. Other than you taking extreme exception to views you don't hold, are you stating MLW members aren't allowed to come to the board and converse in thread discussions that align with their personal interests? As I said, to you, one can't be critical of Jews/Israel... unless one is equally critical towards... "the treatment of gays in Iran"! Quote
Michael Hardner Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 Locking thread so the people on it can calm down- it's easy to discuss what constitutes an insult without actually insulting someone. And anyway such a discussion is off topic Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Charles Anthony Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 Guys, Stay on topic and stop going of on personal banter. The thread is re-opened. Fair enough, but is it not fair to say that someone who makes racist arguments and doubles down on them when it's pointed out is clearly a racist?I agree with that statement but I think that what the mods are struggling with is context. I have told someone that what they are saying is racist in nature and they may be considered as racist if they continue. That is in a helpful tone assuming that the person does not realized how far they have gone in their argument.No, we do not struggle with the context. We struggle with the purpose and intention. We start with an obvious 1st principle: There is no universal nor intuitive meaning/identifier for racism. Everybody has their own definition. Thus, as far as moderator intervention is concerned, it does not matter whether calling somebody "racist" is inflammatory or trolling or a personal attack or anything else. That is a moot point. What over-rides it all is that it is diverting the discussion. It is obvious by now that the thread is being diverted. TRANSLATION: Labelling Argus as a Racist is not the subject of this thread. HINT: Argus does not have to justify your choice of a label placed upon him. I do not even see any point to it either. And yet, unlike you, I don't hate Jews. How confusing!Maybe Charles Anthony or Michael Hardner can weigh in on this. I am curious how a comment like that should be treated.Me too. Any suggestions? I suggest the easy way: treat is as thread drift. You could also treat is a trolling if you want and ignore it. However, each time you respond/reply/address it, mod staff has to step back and treat it like it is something worthy of discussion and treat folks as mature adults by giving them the freedom to express themselves. If you did not reply to it = if you ignored it and reported it, we would have probably just nixed the post entirely before anybody else had a chance to quote it. However, now that it is quoted, you mess things up. Not that it matters but I kind of enjoy reading different opinions on immigration. None of them make any sense to me. I am interested in knowing what my neighbors think. Quote We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Lets make sure we give Harper his due. When he said we needed more immigration, I don't think he meant illegal immigrants. No, that wasn't the word he left out. He meant we need more immigrant voters, as in, more immigrants to vote Conservative. Edited August 23, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) what will happen? You mean... "whitey on the run"? Isn't your use of "foreign born", your code-word for non-white? No, it's a description of immigrants. Is that too simple for you? Foreign born, as in more than half of Toronto and more than half of Vancouver are, at present, foreign born. Implicit in the very idea of immigration is that foreigners will come here, and become integrated. But if there's more of them than there is of us what happens to our culture and our values? I happen to think our culture and values are pretty good. Could be better, but pretty good, and way more advanced and sophisticated than what we find in most of the countries we're recruiting from. Edited August 23, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
WestCoastRunner Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) No, that wasn't the word he left out. He meant we need more immigrant voters, as in, more immigrants to vote Conservative.Are you even aware of harpers latest immigration policies? Maybe You need to look them up. Edited August 23, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Argus Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 Are you even aware of harpers latest immigration policies? I'm aware that, for no justification whatsoever... and I mean they didn't even TRY to give a reason, the Conservatives, right out of the blue, raised immigration to 300,000 this year. Just a coincidence that's election year, I'm sure. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
WestCoastRunner Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 I'm aware that, for no justification whatsoever... and I mean they didn't even TRY to give a reason, the Conservatives, right out of the blue, raised immigration to 300,000 this year. Just a coincidence that's election year, I'm sure. Uh no that's not what i was referring to. I will post later when I'm at home. In the meantime since you seem to be so informed you should double check your facts. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
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