Immigration

[Mighty AC]

What does that mean? Canadians expect to work decent hours and get decent pay while foreigners are easy to browbeat into working unpaid overtime and will take whatever you pay them? I know a lot of businesses prefer to hire foreigners for that very reason.

Uhm, all of them. Why do you think so many were hiring Temporary Foreign Workers for? Because they could get them cheap, and because the TFWs would do whatever they were told and work whatever hours they were told to without daring to complain.

Use of TFWs has exploded under Harper. If we find it acceptable for market forces to dictate the price of goods and services based on supply and demand, do you consider it acceptable for employers to, skirt labour market forces, and artificially depress wages through the use of cheap, temporary workers?

[Rue]

So Mighty AC off you go to Vietnam, Mexico, China, Cambodia, Bangladesh, Indonesia, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, the UAE, Oman, India, Pakistan, hey the entire 1st, 2nd and 3rd worlds while you are at it to stop using cheap labour.

Oh wait no. You just think if you isolate it to Canada you can make it go away. Uh hello, you want to pay workers reasonable wages? How thoughtful of you. Now-tell that to the majority of the world who depend on and use slave labour to make the world's economy run. Get real. Canada can not on its own create some island utopia for workers. The entire world's labour force like its economic networks of distribution are not controlled by Canada-we are a bit player in a far larger scheme.

You can talk labour politics all you want-all that happens is the work goes to countries with cheap and ample supplies of labour and I have news for you-thinking Canada can just do what it wants independently and poof presto workers will be fine is a joke.

Look in Ontario. When wages got to the point in the auto sector where they were considered too high the car manufacturers pulled out to Mexico. So you want to call Ford, etc., evil? Really? How about Mexico? Will you go there and demand they do not skirt labour market forces and artificially depress wages so they can get the car manufacturing businesses we've lost?

Good luck. While you are at it, let me know when you get decent wages for Chinese, Vietnamese, etc. because until you do, Canada can't do a damn thing.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Rue

[Mighty AC]

So Mighty AC off you go to Vietnam, Mexico, China, Cambodia, Bangladesh, Indonesia, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, the UAE, Oman, India, Pakistan, hey the entire 1st, 2nd and 3rd worlds while you are at it to stop using cheap labour.

Oh wait no. You just think if you isolate it to Canada you can make it go away. Uh hello, you want to pay workers reasonable wages? How thoughtful of you. Now-tell that to the majority of the world who depend on and use slave labour to make the world's economy run. Get real. Canada can not on its own create some island utopia for workers. The entire world's labour force like its economic networks of distribution are not controlled by Canada-we are a bit player in a far larger scheme.

Interesting, how is possible it that workers in developed nations manage to work in safer, healthier environments at greater compensation rates than their counterparts in developing nations?

You can talk labour politics all you want-all that happens is the work goes to countries with cheap and ample supplies of labour and I have news for you-thinking Canada can just do what it wants independently and poof presto workers will be fine is a joke.

Look in Ontario. When wages got to the point in the auto sector where they were considered too high the car manufacturers pulled out to Mexico. So you want to call Ford, etc., evil? Really? How about Mexico? Will you go there and demand they do not skirt labour market forces and artificially depress wages so they can get the car manufacturing businesses we've lost?

Labour compensations and standards in the developed world far exceeded those of developing nations long before manufacturing jobs started to relocate. Corporations moved manufacturing facilities to nations with cheap labour rates and lax environmental, health and safety standards when new free trade agreements removed financial penalties on imports. Governments, at the request of major corporations, made this possible. This has been very profitable for multinationals and has lead to the redistribution of middle class wealth to the ownership class, or the infamous 1%.

Free trade agreements between unequal nations have certainly slowed progress on environmental standards and depressed wages in the first world and have hastened our conservative race to the bottom. However, the explosive increase in the practice of using temporary foreign workers under Harper is a little different. They interfere with local market forces just like a mandated price cap would on the other side of the ledger.

Imagine a government mandating that gas must be sold at 95 cents per litre. Is that fair to businesses in markets that would be willing to pay $1.25? Of course not. So why is it acceptable to short circuit the labour market in certain industries by filling jobs at, slightly below, the cheapest possible wage? The answer is, it is not acceptable.

[Canada_First]

Interesting, how is possible it that workers in developed nations manage to work in safer, healthier environments at greater compensation rates than their counterparts in developing nations?

Labour compensations and standards in the developed world far exceeded those of developing nations long before manufacturing jobs started to relocate. Corporations moved manufacturing facilities to nations with cheap labour rates and lax environmental, health and safety standards when new free trade agreements removed financial penalties on imports. Governments, at the request of major corporations, made this possible. This has been very profitable for multinationals and has lead to the redistribution of middle class wealth to the ownership class, or the infamous 1%.

Free trade agreements between unequal nations have certainly slowed progress on environmental standards and depressed wages in the first world and have hastened our conservative race to the bottom. However, the explosive increase in the practice of using temporary foreign workers under Harper is a little different. They interfere with local market forces just like a mandated price cap would on the other side of the ledger.

Imagine a government mandating that gas must be sold at 95 cents per litre. Is that fair to businesses in markets that would be willing to pay $1.25? Of course not. So why is it acceptable to short circuit the labour market in certain industries by filling jobs at, slightly below, the cheapest possible wage? The answer is, it is not acceptable.

So every single thing you own was made in Canada? Nothing from China. Indonesia etc? Not one thing. Amazing.

[CITIZEN_2015]

The West neither caused nor is responsible for the Arab Spring.

I admit lack of knowledge about Arab spring. I never had Arab friends but I know this as a fact and is documented all over internet and CIA recently even admitted to it,

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-iranian-coup

THE WEST (US and UK evil alliance in 1953) KILLED PERSIAN SPRING forever. In 1953 a joint US and British sponsored military coup toppled the democratically elected Nationalist government of Dr. Mosaddeq who tried to nationalize Iranian oil industry out of the dirty hands of British imperialism.

Read about the West's evil actions and how they destroyed the beginning of democracy in Iran in its infancy . This action eventually led to anti western revolution 25 years later as a result the west is dealing with a very powerful anti West nation past 40 years and they deserve it for their actions. Thought it appears the young generation has forgiven the US.

Edited September 12, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Machjo]

Why does Canada tray immigration policy and emigration policy ad separate matters?

For example, I could think of a few ways to encourage Canadians with foreign spouses to emigrate if that is what we want.

For example, why not have a law abrogating security travel restrictions on military or ex-military personnel with a foreign son or daughter in law? That way, reassured that he could visit them in their country, they'd be more likely to emigrate sooner rather than later?

Another possibility would be to make all flight tickets that include a foreign airport as the final destination tax exempt. This would make living abroad and visiting Canada every year more attractive than living in Canada and traveling abroad every year. It could boost tourism too and in so doing maybe encourage more international marriages and consequently emigration. Raising taxes on tickets that end at a Canadian airport could compensate for the lost revenue and discourage Canadian tourism abroad so as to keep the money in Canada while also making immigration even less attractive.

These would be just some ideas. To oppose immigration without developing an adequate emigration policy is futile.

[Argus]

I admit lack of knowledge about Arab spring. I never had Arab friends but I know this as a fact and is documented all over internet and CIA recently even admitted to it,

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-iranian-coup

So the CIA and the British overthrew the Iranian government 60 years ago, and that means they must be responsible for the Arab Spring? Okaaaayyyyyy.

[CITIZEN_2015]

The Evil US-British alliance of 1953 and their total disregard for democracy and well being of the people of Iran when it comes to their national interest is a clear indicator of how evil the two countries are and that they could be responsible for a lot of evil things happening in the world, I admitted I am no expert in Arab politics but I was saying based on historic evidence of what they did in 1953 (and as another example of total disregard for democracy and the will of people is the CIA sponsored coup in Chile in 1973 which also put the brutal dictator Pinochet in power and overthrow nationalist government of Allende) they are both evil and it is likely that they may be responsible for the mess in Arab world too.

Edited September 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[bush_cheney2004]

....THE WEST (US and UK evil alliance in 1953) KILLED PERSIAN SPRING forever. In 1953 a joint US and British sponsored military coup toppled the democratically elected Nationalist government of Dr. Mosaddeq who tried to nationalize Iranian oil industry out of the dirty hands of British imperialism.

OK....Canada developed and executed a plan to depose and kidnap the democratically elected president of Haiti in 2004....so when will Haiti start developing nuclear weapons ? How many Haitian emigres are welcomed each year ?

Edited September 13, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[CITIZEN_2015]

OK....Canada developed and executed a plan to depose and kidnap the democratically elected president of Haiti in 2004....so when will Haiti start developing nuclear weapons ? How many Haitian emigres are welcomed each year ?

Canada did this????!!!! Are you re-inventing history. I am no expert in Haitian politics but I think it was US. No?

The debate here is not about Iran's development of nuclear weapons which btw, those countries who have it (like US and UK) and those countries who have developed it in Secret (like Israel) are asking Iran not to do what they have done it themselves. But the debate is whether US and UK are responsible for Arab spring (and if they are then they have to take most of the refugees since they created it) and I said based on historic evidence that they are both evil (and I provided two examples, one in middle east) I wouldn't put it beyond them. I also said that they may not be as I admitted to my lack of expertise when it comes to Arab politics.

Edited September 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[On Guard for Thee]

Canada did this????!!!! Are you re-inventing history. I am no expert in Haitian politics but I think it was US. No?

The debate here is not about Iran's development of nuclear weapons which btw, those countries who have it (like US and UK) and those countries who have developed it in Secret (like Israel) are asking Iran not to do what they have done it themselves. But the debate is whether US and UK are responsible for Arab spring (and if they are then they have to take most of the refugees since they created it) and I said based on historic evidence that they are both evil (and I provided two examples, one in middle east) I wouldn't put it beyond them. I also said that they may not be as I admitted to my lack of expertise when it comes to Arab politics.

He is re-inventing history o the Haiti issue for sure. It seems to be a favorite past time in the US.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada did this????!!!! Are you re-inventing history. I am no expert in Haitian politics but I think it was US. No?

Yes...Canada deposed Aristide with France and the U.S. The plan was organized in Canada as the "Ottawa Initiative"

http://coat.ncf.ca/Haiti/Canada_in_Haiti.htm

The topic is immigration, so how many Haitians will Canada be taking as penance for its grave imperialist sin(s) ?

[CITIZEN_2015]

I think Canada's role is debatable. I don't think your source is that credible. It may have hosted the initiation but the actual task of carrying out the coup, not sure Canada played a physical role in it like sending troops. To answer your question if Canada was responsible for creating many starving homeless refugees then yes Canada has to take them.

Edited September 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[bush_cheney2004]

I think Canada's role is debatable. I don't think your source is that credible. It may have hosted the initiation but the actual task of carrying out the coup, not sure Canada played a physical role in it like sending troops. To answer your question if Canada was responsible for creating many starving homeless refugees then yes Canada has to take them.

Good...at least you are consistent...Canada should be taking in 1,000,000 Haitian refugees ! And yes...Canadian Forces were directly involved in the coup, capture of the airport, and post coup "peacekeeping" resulting in the deaths of Haitians.

[drummindiver]

Which were several widespread revolts against dictatorships, several of which the West supported...mostly to thwart Springs from happening. To suggest the West's actions have had nothing to do with the catastrophe the ME region is descending into is just plain stupid.

That people in the region don't differentiate much between a dictatorship whether it a Western or Eastern bastard escapes you doesn't it? That's the sort of blind wilful ignorance that's guaranteed to turn this quagmire into WW3.

See, here is where your logic is messed up.

"Revolts against dictatorships, several of which the West supported".

So, if the west supports them, we are guilty by association for their crimes.

If we oppose them, we are interfering in their interior politics and guilty for their crimes.

To suggest the West is to blame for millennial of unrest and fighting in the ME is bordering on the ludicrous and surreal

"That people in the region don't differentiate much between a dictatorship whether it a Western or Eastern bastard escapes you"

If we are talking ME, obviously, we are talking an Eastern bastard by definition.Unless, you are juxtaposing Israel to be a Western bastard, though clearly an Eastern bastard.(tongue in cheek)

[drummindiver]

A common conservative sentiment. Wealthy, aging boomer lived through unprecedented levels of social support and market gains now wants others to fend for themselves so he can keep a few more bucks in his pocket.

Odd. I thought the left was clearly stating our social programs have been decimated and we have been in multiple recessions and were broke.

[Scotty]

The Evil US-British alliance of 1953 and their total disregard for democracy and well being of the people of Iran when it comes to their national interest is a clear indicator of how evil the two countries are and that they could be responsible for a lot of evil things happening in the world, I admitted I am no expert in Arab politics

You realize it's not 1953, right? The US and UK are evil? Who do you think is better, us? I'm pretty sure we went along with them without any protest at the time.

And by the way again, it's not 1953. Everyone involved is dead. And also by the way, every post you make says you're no expert or you don't now much about the middle east, then you go on to make statements which prove it. Maybe you should read up a little before posting.

[CITIZEN_2015]

You realize it's not 1953, right? The US and UK are evil? Who do you think is better, us? I'm pretty sure we went along with them without any protest at the time.

And by the way again, it's not 1953. Everyone involved is dead. And also by the way, every post you make says you're no expert or you don't now much about the middle east, then you go on to make statements which prove it. Maybe you should read up a little before posting.

What are you talking about!!!!!!! IT WAS 1953 when the coup took place and its effects are still felt throughout the middle east and the whole world real bad. What are you talking about? Ignorance is not your fault but Go and educate yourself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

Edited October 5, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[bush_cheney2004]

..... And yes Canada had no role in the coup (in 1953 in Iran or in 1973 in Chile) and yes US and UK are by far evil.

You mean that Canada waited until 2004 to get into the coup business (Haiti) ? Better late than never !

[Canada_First]

The only people that should be welcome are Eurocentric, Christian type people. They're the most civilized. Most compatible with our society. I don't like Canada turning into a third world country.

We view Jews, women and gays as equals.

[CITIZEN_2015]

You mean that Canada waited until 2004 to get into the coup business (Haiti) ? Better late than never !

As I said I am no expert in Haitian politics but it is not Canada's nature to do what US and UK have done frequently that is to overthrow nationalist governments like in Iran and Chile to rob them of their wealth or install their own puppet regimes in order to protect their own self interest. Also and more importantly Haiti is a poor country likely the poorest in this continent so what benefits would a coup bring to Canada?. Does it have oil like Iran did? No. Does it have wealth? No. So Canada's involvement very likely must have been with good intentions going wrong. That is to help the people of Haiti with democracy and overthrow a dictator but didn't work out the way it was planned (I am guessing as I know Canada's reputation as a moderate kind helpful country).

Edited September 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

The only people that should be welcome are Eurocentric, Christian type people. They're the most civilized. Most compatible with our society. I don't like Canada turning into a third world country.

We view Jews, women and gays as equals.

Who is we? You are in a group or something? Do you represent some extreme right wing organization or the former regime of Ian Smith? And since when the extreme right recognizes Jews as equals? Didn't they send them to gas chambers not long ago? Did they change their color now because Jews are now powerful and they can't win a war against them? Same for gays.

Edited September 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

We view Jews, women and gays as equals.

Yeah you just hate Blacks, Middle Easterns, Hispanics, Asians. That is over 80% of world's population. So much hate. You or your group are very nice people!!!!!!!. May be Canada should have barred white Rhodesian supremacist immigrants on the basis of being contrary to our culture.

Edited September 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[On Guard for Thee]

Yeah you just hate Blacks, Middle Easterns, Hispanics, Asians. That is over 80% of world's population. So much hate. You or your group are very nice people!!!!!!!. May be Canada should have barred white Rhodesian supremacist immigrants on the basis of being contrary to our culture.

Well, one of them for sure.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Well, one of them for sure.

Well based on his own saying he hates them all not just one of them.

The only people that should be welcome are Eurocentric, Christian type people.

This does not include Asians (Chinese, Indians, Japanese......) or Blacks (Africans), or Hispanics (in Central South America not Europe) and yes he has repeatedly shown his hate for middle eastern.

His way of thinking (culture may be) is as much alien to Canadian culture as some middle eastern guy who sees women as inferior or possession and hates Jews or gays as he claims and wants to ban from coming to Canada.

Edited September 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015