marcus Posted June 24, 2015 Report Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) The UN report came out earlier in the week. This is yet another fact finding report where Israel was found to have severely violated international law and have committed possible war crimes. Hamas, as usual, violated international law by firing indiscriminate rockets and killing Palestinians they accused of collaborating. Of course, the magnitude of Israel's violations and the killings of civilians is at a much different level when it comes to comparing to Hamas. Not surprising, Israel denies any wrong doing and will do what it can to smear the report and the people behind it. Calling on Israel to “break with its lamentable track record” and hold wrongdoers responsible, the hard-hitting report commissioned by the UN human rights council lays most of the blame for Israel’s suspected violations at the feet of the country’s political and military leadership. The commission – chaired by a former New York supreme court judge, Mary McGowan Davis – says leaders should have been aware as the war progressed that their failure to change course was leading to mounting civilian casualties. “Those responsible for suspected violations of international law at all levels of the political and military establishments must be brought to justice,” it says. It seems like, everything is being recycled. Israel unleashes its ferocious military, kills a large number of civilians, then unleashes its political and marketing campaign, denying any wrong doing. The only difference is that, each time, the world turns more and more against Israel which strengthens the BDS movement, that has the potential to turn the tide. It will also strengthen the movement to take Israel to the ICC. “In six of the cases examined by the commission, and in most cases reported on by non-governmental organisations, there is little or no information available to explain why residential buildings, which are prima facie civilian objects immune from attack, were considered to be legitimate military objectives.” The report concludes: “In many incidents, however, the weapons used, the timing of attacks, and the fact that the targets were located in densely populated areas indicate that the Israel Defence Forces may not have done everything feasible to avoid or limit civilian casualties. “Israel should provide specific information on the effective contribution of a given house or inhabitant to military action and the clear advantage to be gained by the attack. Should a strike directly and intentionally target a house in the absence of a specific military objective, this would amount to a violation of the principle of distinction. It may also constitute a direct attack against civilian objects or civilians, a war crime under international criminal law.” Link Edited June 24, 2015 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Posted June 24, 2015 The UN report came out earlier in the week. This is yet another fact finding report where Israel was found to have severely violated international law and have committed possible war crimes. Hamas, as usual, violated international law by firing indiscriminate rockets and killing Palestinians they accused of collaborating. Of course, the magnitude of Israel's violations and the killings of civilians comes nowhere near what Hamas has done. Yay for Hamas ! They are the good guys ! Israel made them do it. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
marcus Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Posted June 24, 2015 Yay for Hamas ! They are the good guys ! Israel made them do it. They are definitely not the good guys. But they are definitely not Israel. The ruthless killing machine that killed close to 2000 people with majority of them civilians. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Posted June 24, 2015 So it's OK to "slaughter" non-civilians ? Hamas....the Good Guys !!! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted June 24, 2015 Report Posted June 24, 2015 So it's OK to "slaughter" non-civilians ? It's never OK to slaughter. But at least sometimes you can find justification in the law when killing combatants. However, shooting anything in sight, as Israel has done during its weapons testing (Link 1, Link 2) campaigns, is not only illegal as report after report has found, but it's also immoral. Most moral military in the world! Gotta love the blatant lies we keep hearing from the Hasbara. Families? Pffft! Gone! Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hal 9000 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 This is good, now we know that it's perfectly acceptable to use human shields. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
cybercoma Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 I always find it interesting when people blame the death of innocent civilians on Hamas using human shields.Tell me, are you ok with the police running into a hostage situation and killing everyone just to get to the hostage taker? Quote
Hudson Jones Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) This is good, now we know that it's perfectly acceptable to use human shields. Interesting that you say that, because the report has found that the IDF used Palestinians as human shields repeatedly. For example; They sent children into buildings to see if there were any booby traps. They put civilians in front of them, while moving around the neighbourhood. In previous Gaza attacks, they put Palestinians in front of their cars. Oh those slimy, hypocritical, lying sack of IDF's. Edited June 25, 2015 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hal 9000 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Interesting that you say that, because the report has found that the IDF used Palestinians as human shields repeatedly. For example; They sent children into buildings to see if there were any booby traps. They put civilians in front of them, while moving around the neighbourhood. In previous Gaza attacks, they put Palestinians in front of their cars. Oh those slimy, hypocritical, lying sack of IDF's. Why would you call them that? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Topaz Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 I think more people around the world, should asking themselves if THEIR country could be charged with war crimes because many could be. Quote
Rue Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Cyber your analogy shows your absolute ignorance as to the subject you profess and is a classic example of arm chair expertise. A civilian hostage taking and a terrorist hostage taking are not the same. The fact you don't understand that and why the tactics used in both situations are very different speaks for itself. You know nothing about how to deal with terrorists or hostage taking situations with civilians so before you pose them as the same stop playing security expert and go find out why. Ridiculous. As for the HJ-Marcus tag team using this report to yet again engage in their/his agenda and repeat the same stale mantra with yet another piss on Israel caption to push to the top of the list each time its responded to, let me giggle and chirp along, Israel poo poo ka ka. Edited June 25, 2015 by Rue Quote
cybercoma Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Cyber your analogy shows your absolute ignorance as to the subject you profess and is a classic example of arm chair expertise.So when you open your post with a bunch of personal insults, am I supposed to take you seriously, esquire? A civilian hostage taking and a terrorist hostage taking are not the same.They're criminals....taking hostages. HOw are they different? The fact you don't understand that and why the tactics used in both situations are very different speaks for itself.The fact that you didn't explain the difference speaks for itself too. You know nothing about how to deal with terrorists or hostage taking situations with civilians so before you pose them as the same stop playing security expert and go find out why. More personal insults without any substance. Ridiculous.Your entire post so far has been ridiculous. Yeah. As for the HJ-Marcus tag team using this report to yet again engage in their/his agenda and repeat the same stale mantra with yet another piss on Israel caption to push to the top of the list each time its responded to, let me giggle and chirp along, Israel poo poo ka ka. You alright, bud? Do you have a salient point to make here? First of all, I'm not the one who said Hamas was using people as human shields, essentially calling the civilians hostages, though I do agree with that assessment. Hamas uses appalling tactics by putting civilians in harm's way. But my point still stands. Is it acceptable to murder all of the hostages in such a situation in order to murder the criminals? When people support Israel's indiscriminate bombings and their levelling of apartment complexes, they're otherwise supporting tactics that claim hostages are expendable. If that's not your position, that collateral damage (civilian casualties) is acceptable in order to fight back against Hamas, then perhaps you might want to explain your position, instead of throwing a tantrum and littering your post with petty insults. There are people, on this forum even, who would say that civilian deaths are just par for the course and we should blame Hamas for setting up in residential areas, not Israel for attacking the civilians indiscriminately. I'm suggesting that they're both accountable: Hamas for taking hostages and Israel, as the police in this situation, murdering the hostages indiscriminately. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) It's never OK to slaughter. But at least sometimes you can find justification in the law when killing combatants. However, shooting anything in sight, as Israel has done during its weapons testing (Link 1, Link 2) campaigns, is not only illegal as report after report has found, but it's also immoral. "Immoral" is your issue...not mine. Playing the "combatants only" game will not work in the Mideast....not every combatant is easily identifiable as such and the battle lines are "asymmetric". Both Hamas and the IDF pretty much ignore the flaccid UN, just as they should. Edited June 25, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 I always find it interesting when people blame the death of innocent civilians on Hamas using human shields. Tell me, are you ok with the police running into a hostage situation and killing everyone just to get to the hostage taker? A good example of that is the school situation in Russia a few years back. Quote
Canada_First Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 So when you open your post with a bunch of personal insults, am I supposed to take you seriously, esquire? They're criminals....taking hostages. HOw are they different? The fact that you didn't explain the difference speaks for itself too. More personal insults without any substance. Your entire post so far has been ridiculous. Yeah. You alright, bud? Do you have a salient point to make here? First of all, I'm not the one who said Hamas was using people as human shields, essentially calling the civilians hostages, though I do agree with that assessment. Hamas uses appalling tactics by putting civilians in harm's way. But my point still stands. Is it acceptable to murder all of the hostages in such a situation in order to murder the criminals? When people support Israel's indiscriminate bombings and their levelling of apartment complexes, they're otherwise supporting tactics that claim hostages are expendable. If that's not your position, that collateral damage (civilian casualties) is acceptable in order to fight back against Hamas, then perhaps you might want to explain your position, instead of throwing a tantrum and littering your post with petty insults. There are people, on this forum even, who would say that civilian deaths are just par for the course and we should blame Hamas for setting up in residential areas, not Israel for attacking the civilians indiscriminately. I'm suggesting that they're both accountable: Hamas for taking hostages and Israel, as the police in this situation, murdering the hostages indiscriminately. Yes it's acceptable. Unfortunate but that's the way Hamas chose to play the game. They're too cowardly to meet in open warfare so they resort to these coward tactics. If they're going to launch attacks from hospitals and schools then those place will get destroyed. Too bad for Hamas. Quote
cybercoma Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Yes it's acceptable.Then you're clearly a sociopath. Nobody in their right minds advocates butchering innocent civilians to get to the hostage taker. Your argument is morally bankrupt. Quote
Canada_First Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Then you're clearly a sociopath. Nobody in their right minds advocates butchering innocent civilians to get to the hostage taker. Your argument is morally bankrupt.The terrorists must be killed regardless of the cost. Our planet is overpopulated anyways. A few here and there is nothing in the grand scope of things. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Then you're clearly a sociopath..... Personal attacks are not permitted. Thank you. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 What does possible war crimes mean? Anyways, do these reports really mean anything anymore? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 What does possible war crimes mean? Anyways, do these reports really mean anything anymore? It means more useless UN hype. It's like a double technical in the NBA ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Personal attacks are not permitted. Thank you. Responding to personal attacks is not permitted either, champ. Quote
Big Guy Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Today, the Palestinian authority submitted its first files of evidence of Israeli war crimes to the International Criminal Court. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/palestine-submit-file-icc-israeli-war-crimes-150625134522711.html It will be asking the court to rule on the evidence. This is going to put Israel into an awkward position. If it refuses to co-operate then it will be one of the few countries to do so. If it does co-operate then it will give credibility to the court and the eventual judgement. It appears that the Palestinians are not prepared to go away and disappear. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
GostHacked Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Yes it's acceptable. Unfortunate but that's the way Hamas chose to play the game. They're too cowardly to meet in open warfare so they resort to these coward tactics. If they're going to launch attacks from hospitals and schools then those place will get destroyed. Too bad for Hamas. How are they to play out in the open when they are not allowed to have any kind of standing police/army? Also, we always here the rhetoric from Israel that is is simply only a couple miles wide and hard to defend against, while the occupied territories are much smaller. So I don't know. Quote
marcus Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 What does possible war crimes mean? Anyways, do these reports really mean anything anymore? You mean when the system is rigged and the U.S. must obey its master and veto or derail actions that could be taken against the criminal? These things do mean something. The world does not take Israel's claims of innocence or the old "they made us do it" seriously anymore. This is why the BDS movement continues to get bigger and continues to worry the Zionists. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 BDS is working great for Hamas and Gaza...very little foreign investment there compared to Israel. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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