The Dylann Roof thread

[PrimeNumber]

While I agree that mass shootings are shocking and upsetting, I think we should maintain some perspective about how rare these incidents are.

Here's a table compiled by Mother Jones listing mass US shooting incidents.

Nine so far this year, 9 in 2014, 36 in 2013, 72 in 2012, 19 in 2011, 9 in 2010, 39 in 2009, 18 in 2008, 54 in 2007, and 21 in 2006.

That's 286 total deaths in mass shootings in the US since 2006.

They missed Elliot Rodger in Isla Vista, California 2014 - 7 dead, 7 wounded

They missed Ford Hood, Texas - 3 dead, 17 wounded

They missed Bradley William Stone in Montgomery County, PA - 6 dead, 3 wounded

Unknown in Cleveland, OH - 5 dead

All of these in 2014, Which makes me question weather or not they have every single shooting on there or just picked and choose what they wanted to include.

Edited June 24, 2015 by PrimeNumber

[PrimeNumber]

If it's about saving lives, I think by far the better focus would be on addressing the causes of violence, rather than the tools.

In Canada, for example, I don't believe we have a gun violence problem. However, certain neighborhoods in Greater Vancouver (for example) have a gun violence problem. That's because these are areas where drug gangs are busy wiping each other out. Perhaps if Canada had a more intelligent policy in regard to drugs, the trade in illegal drugs would not be so lucrative and the resulting violence would be stemmed as well.

-k

We also have to remember that many of these mass shootings have less to do with poverty and more to do with hatred. Shootings of a particular race, gender or social status.

Edited June 24, 2015 by PrimeNumber

[Derek 2.0]

While I agree that mass shootings are shocking and upsetting, I think we should maintain some perspective about how rare these incidents are.

Here's a table compiled by Mother Jones listing mass US shooting incidents.

Nine so far this year, 9 in 2014, 36 in 2013, 72 in 2012, 19 in 2011, 9 in 2010, 39 in 2009, 18 in 2008, 54 in 2007, and 21 in 2006.

That's 286 total deaths in mass shootings in the US since 2006.

For comparison sake, there were 276 deaths in the US due to lightning between 2006 and 2014.

In the US, the odds of dying in a mass shooting are literally the same as being struck by lightning.

I don't say this to make light of these incidents, I am just trying to provide some perspective on how incredibly rare these events are.

Clearly the gun lobby has got to Mother Jones

Ok, so again: is it about saving lives?

If it's about saving lives, I think by far the better focus would be on addressing the causes of violence, rather than the tools.

Exactly.......its not rational. MADD didn't go after makers of cars and booze......

[Derek 2.0]

We also have to remember that many of these mass shootings have less to do with poverty and more to do with hatred. Shootings of a particular race, gender or social status.

Without a doubt, hence an obvious requirement for further mental health research/outreach/treatment........but with the far more daily gun violence (In the United States, Mexico and Canada), most are drug related.........which shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone with a passing knowledge of the prohibition era in the United States.

[PrimeNumber]

Without a doubt, hence an obvious requirement for further mental health research/outreach/treatment........but with the far more daily gun violence (In the United States, Mexico and Canada), most are drug related.........which shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone with a passing knowledge of the prohibition era in the United States.

It's funny that the same governments that are on the side of gun owners are typically on the side that favours less mental health treatment and continuing drug prohibition. People like Harper and Bush.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes indeed, the last time the State attempted to control guns and powder, not only did they not comply, they killed the agents of the State sent to enforce this mandate and then threw a Tea Party........

Your GPS chips would be removed, and then so to the Government...

As already explained, remove the chip, get a phone call. Guess what, I bet your smartphone has a chip in it which will allow you to track it if you leave it somewhere. If we can do that with a phone, why not with an assault rifle...

[bush_cheney2004]

.......which shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone with a passing knowledge of the prohibition era in the United States.

Yep...we even have the sons of a Canadian diplomat getting in on the gun action..."a drug deal gone wrong"....hardly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3024549/Canadian-diplomat-s-son-15-threatened-shoot-Miami-detective-head-botched-drug-robbery-left-older-brother-teenager-dead.html

[Derek 2.0]

As already explained, remove the chip, get a phone call. Guess what, I bet your smartphone has a chip in it which will allow you to track it if you leave it somewhere. If we can do that with a phone, why not with an assault rifle...

My smartphone doesn't, with any frequency, emit projectiles through a chemical reaction that results in internal pressures ranging from 10000-70000 psi.....none the less, flaws associated with natural physics and social-regulatory compliance aside, how does chip removal phone call follow-ups ensure one doesn't further ignore legal requirements and commit further criminal acts with said now untraceable gun?

[On Guard for Thee]

My smartphone doesn't, with any frequency, emit projectiles through a chemical reaction that results in internal pressures ranging from 10000-70000 psi.....none the less, flaws associated with natural physics and social-regulatory compliance aside, how does chip removal phone call follow-ups ensure one doesn't further ignore legal requirements and commit further criminal acts with said now untraceable gun?

Most phones do nowadays. Like I said, no system will likely be perfect, but that gun will be traceable until the chip is removed so it gives cops a place to start. Better than they have now. Here is what I would call irony though, recently in London Ont. a guy traced his phone he left in a taxicab back to car he approached to try and retrieve the phone, and was killed by some gun freaks.

[Derek 2.0]

It's funny that the same governments that are on the side of gun owners are typically on the side that favours less mental health treatment and continuing drug prohibition. People like Harper and Bush.

I find it funny that the Governments not on side with gun owners typically favor mandatory, regulatory compliance with their social engineering experiments, with the assurance that the State will always have the populace's best interests at heart, interests that the State tell the populace are in its best interests........noncompliance results in a visit by agents of the State, armed with guns no doubt, to ensure said interest's of the State are complied with.

[Derek 2.0]

Most phones do nowadays. Like I said, no system will likely be perfect, but that gun will be traceable until the chip is removed so it gives cops a place to start. Better than they have now. Here is what I would call irony though, recently in London Ont. a guy traced his phone he left in a taxicab back to car he approached to try and retrieve the phone, and was killed by some gun freaks.

Most phones have safe internal operating pressures in 10000-70000 psi range? Who knew?

Edited June 24, 2015 by Derek 2.0

[Derek 2.0]

Yep...we even have the sons of a Canadian diplomat getting in on the gun action..."a drug deal gone wrong"....hardly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3024549/Canadian-diplomat-s-son-15-threatened-shoot-Miami-detective-head-botched-drug-robbery-left-older-brother-teenager-dead.html

Without a doubt........it would seem the way forward is obvious.

[PrimeNumber]

I find it funny that the Governments not on side with gun owners typically favor mandatory, regulatory compliance with their social engineering experiments, with the assurance that the State will always have the populace's best interests at heart, interests that the State tell the populace are in its best interests........noncompliance results in a visit by agents of the State, armed with guns no doubt, to ensure said interest's of the State are complied with.

No, the governments on the side of the gun owners do that too.

Edited June 24, 2015 by PrimeNumber

[On Guard for Thee]

Most phones have safe internal operating pressures in 10000-70000 psi range? Who knew?

And this psi business has what to do with what...

[Derek 2.0]

No, the governments on the side of the gun owners do that too.

Do what too? Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, hence a State with an armed populace isn't that powerful.......and rightfully so.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Derek 2.0

[Derek 2.0]

And this psi business has what to do with what...

The actual science as to why your GPS chip, or an RFID like in the now defunct IP1, are not grounded in reality.

[PrimeNumber]

Do what too? Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, hence a State with an armed populace isn't that powerful.......and rightfully so.

They assure the population "that the State will always have the populace's best interests at heart, interests that the State tell the populace are in its best interests........noncompliance results in a visit by agents of the State, armed with guns no doubt, to ensure said interest's of the State are complied with."

Gun owners laughably think they could ever stand up to the State if they did anything to piss them off. Try standing up to a government that can pick you off with a drone strike before you even know it's flying above you. hahaha guns give gun owners far more confidence in that endeavor than they should have.

Edited June 24, 2015 by PrimeNumber

[On Guard for Thee]

The actual science as to why your GPS chip, or an RFID like in the now defunct IP1, are not grounded in reality.

How so...

[bush_cheney2004]

....Gun owners laughably think they could ever stand up to the State if they did anything to piss them off. Try standing up to a government that can pick you off with a drone strike before you even know it's flying above you. hahaha guns give gun owners far more confidence in that endeavor than they should have.

That's what the British thought too.....and the loyalists who fled to Canada.

[On Guard for Thee]

That's what the British thought too.....and the loyalists who fled to Canada.

I didn't think they had drones that long ago.

[PrimeNumber]

That's what the British thought too.....and the loyalists who fled to Canada.

hahaha nice try the British didn't have Drones. Plus France won't come help you this time either. Good luck with that one, let me know when you try.

[Derek 2.0]

They assure the population "that the State will always have the populace's best interests at heart, interests that the State tell the populace are in its best interests........noncompliance results in a visit by agents of the State, armed with guns no doubt, to ensure said interest's of the State are complied with."

Gun owners laughably think they could ever stand up to the State if they did anything to piss them off. Try standing up to a government that can pick you off with a drone strike before you even know it's flying above you. hahaha guns give gun owners far more confidence in that endeavor than they should have.

15000-20000 outnumbered Iraqi insurgents did exactly that, armed namely with just small arms........If just 3% (again) of Americans (gun owners) took up arms against a tyrannical State, their numbers would be over 4 million, out numbering all agents currently in the employ of the (Federal) State......and that of course assumes that the United States military itself didn't fracture (Oath Keepers), various States don't secede (again) with their own Guard units etc.......

[Derek 2.0]

hahaha nice try the British didn't have Drones. Plus France won't come help you this time either. Good luck with that one, let me know when you try.

How would you rate the usage of drones in quelling ISIS?

[kimmy]

Most phones do nowadays. Like I said, no system will likely be perfect, but that gun will be traceable until the chip is removed so it gives cops a place to start. Better than they have now. Here is what I would call irony though, recently in London Ont. a guy traced his phone he left in a taxicab back to car he approached to try and retrieve the phone, and was killed by some gun freaks.

One difference between a gun and a cell phone:

* your cell phone (and the GPS chip inside it) stops working when the batteries are dead, while a gun works just fine without batteries.

-k

[Derek 2.0]

That's what the British thought too.....and the loyalists who fled to Canada.

Exactly, likewise the Americans, British and Soviets etc thought in various third-world crap holes..........imagine how long the Vietnam War would have lasted if fought in the streets of Detroit, Boise, Madison, Dallas, Boston etc.......