kimmy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 But it's not a given that he would have figured out an alternative or even been so committed to it if he didn't have a really really easy means of carrying it out. And if he had found another way, there's no guarantee the results would have been as lethal. Of course there's no guarantees of anything. That includes the premise that better gun control would have prevented him from getting a gun. But I'd point that some of the deadliest incidents of mass violence in Canada were carried out without guns. That includes the Air India bombing, as well as less well known incidents like a bombing at Giant Mine in Northwest Territories during a labor strike, a biker gang incident in Montreal where a night club was burned down with people inside. And pretty much all of those sensible gun policies would be considered intolerable violations of individual rights to the American gun lobby. And as always, I'm somewhat in the middle of warring factions on this issue, because I support sensible gun policies, while I oppose the kind of hysterical over-reaction that some here are advocating. Canada's gun control laws work fine. We don't have a gun problem. We don't need to spend billions of dollars to fight a problem that, statistically speaking, is extremely minor. And to those who say "you can't put a price on human life! If it saves even one life it's worth it!" ...think about how many human lives could be spent if these untold billions were spent in more constructive ways. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I don't think we spend any money protecting Canadians from lightning. I think we spend entirely too much money protecting Canadians from terrorism. I think it would be a mistake to compound that mistake by wasting billions of dollars to fight what's actually a very minor cause of death in Canada. If you want to spend billions of dollars to save lives in Canada, let's talk about improving healthcare. If you really want to talk about saving lives, let's talk about fighting smoking and obesity. If you want to talk about reducing violent crime in Canada, let's talk about rethinking our policy on drug prohibition. Agreed, and well said. However, making it as difficult as possible for civilians to access firearms is also a very good idea. They are efficient killing machines that cause society many ills, especially the escalation of angry or tense situations into deadly ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I agree that our gun laws in Canada are much more effective than anything the US seems to have, and the homicide statistics reflect that. However this thread started out about an American incident. What hoops did Roof have to jump through to get his hands on a gun...none beyond unwrapping a birthday gift. Did his old man not know anything about his son before buying him a 45 caliber pistol...and if he was unaware of his sons felony charges he did nothing illegal by giving it to him. As has been pointed out previously, there are very likely a host of readily obtained, illegal guns flowing across our borders regularly, into the hands of people who couldn't hope to obtain the necessary background checks required here. I guess the question I am getting to is how the hell do we ever change the attitudes south of the border so effective laws can be enacted, and enforced, so that flow could be reduced, and maybe we wouldn't be seeing so many mass shooting headlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Healthcare is most certainly not a constitutional right in Canada. What is or isn't a constitutional right in Canada is up to the Supreme Court and basically, given their previous decisions, they would definitely say health care is a constitutional right. This is a court which ordered the government not to shut down a program in BC whereby drug addicts can go to inject themselves with illegal narcotics because doing so would somehow or other violate the constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Not if you believe in market capitalism........Nobody is in the market for $1500+ gun, chambered in .22 (with subsonic ammo) that is not reliable. Not if it's not reliable, no. My understanding was it was reliable. And what does a handgun cost in Canada right now? Say a Glock, like most police use? I'm guessing it's probably close to $1500. This one seems interesting. The gun won't fire if its not within ten inches of a watch-like band you strap around your wrist. http://fortune.com/2015/04/22/smart-guns-theyre-ready-are-we/ Edited June 25, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Nope....lessons learned in auto racing were readily adopted for automobiles. You're saying my memory is flawed that the government had to order seat belts put in place, then had to order people use them, and also had to order air bags be put in place, along with other safety enhancements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 If you want to talk about reducing violent crime in Canada, let's talk about rethinking our policy on drug prohibition. How about we talk about throwing violent criminals into prison and tossing away the key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Not if it's not reliable, no. My understanding was it was reliable. And what does a handgun cost in Canada right now? Say a Glock, like most police use? I'm guessing it's probably close to $1500. A Gen 3 Glock 17 or a S&W M&P 9mm/.40 S&W (common guns used by police), new, would run about $650-$750 in Canada, and about $550-600 in the States.............For $1500 and up in Canada, that's roughly comparable to a lower end competition guns like Kimber 1911s or a Sig, for $1500 and up in the States you're looking at handmade custom guns like Dan Wesson revolvers, Colt reproductions and Wilson Combat tactical guns/w lasers............This Smart gun you cited is a .22 pistol, which medium price range in Canada is about $300-350, and about $200-250 in the United States This one seems interesting. The gun won't fire if its not within ten inches of a watch-like band you strap around your wrist. http://fortune.com/2...e-ready-are-we/ That is the Smartgun, which the maker just went bankrupt, and it should be noted, the parent company for the Smartgun was Heckler & Koch, which didn't design/market/produce the Smartgun under its own name, setting up a shadow company, to avoid financial and marketing backlash for when the gun failed (as it did)....... They learned by example, as iconic Smith & Wesson nearly went bankrupt in the later 90s, early 2000s, after agreeing to incorporate internal trigger locks in their guns, which are a mechanical device (not electronic)......no surprise, police and military forces around the world, not to mention the general public, stopped buying from Smith & Wesson when these far less complex devices (then electronics) would fail with repeated use........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Next week or the week after when there will inevitably be another similar situation, the gun totter dolts will still be raving about the second and gun laws. It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Next week or the week after when there will inevitably be another similar situation, the gun totter dolts will still be raving about the second and gun laws. It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad. Obama goal is to repeal the second amendment and confiscation of all firearms. Thats what Jade Helm will do. It's the exercise to disarm America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 You're saying my memory is flawed that the government had to order seat belts put in place, then had to order people use them, and also had to order air bags be put in place, along with other safety enhancements? As stated before, passive restraints were offered in autos as standard and optional equipment long before the government mandated such items (e.g. Nash, Volvo for lap and shoulder belts respectively.) GM offered airbag options in the early 1970's, long before the government mandated them about 15 years later in 1998. I remember this specifically because my father was a Cadillac salesman from 1972 - 1975, and many people were afraid of the earliest airbags (with good reason). A manual latch safety and/or a grip safety are common to firearms design without government mandate. Firearms have several other safety features depending on intended use and design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Obama goal is to repeal the second amendment and confiscation of all firearms. Thats what Jade Helm will do. It's the exercise to disarm America. And disarming America is so wrong why.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 And disarming America is so wrong why.... dictators do the same thing. Stalin Hitler Mao all disarmed the population first. Yes it's wrong. People should be allowed to legally own guns. It's going to be another civil war in the USA. Do you have a problem with freedom? What's with the control issues the left has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 If the church goers had been packing they could've fought back. The answer us more guns not less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 dictators do the same thing. Stalin Hitler Mao all disarmed the population first. Yes it's wrong. People should be allowed to legally own guns. It's going to be another civil war in the USA. Do you have a problem with freedom? What's with the control issues the left has? Man you have bought this NRA bullshit hook line and sinker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Man you have bought this NRA bullshit hook line and sinker. What's about what I said? Are you denying that those dictators disarmed its citizens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 What's about what I said? Are you denying that those dictators disarmed its citizens? Strict gun laws do not disarm citizens. They just make it a little harder for whackos to get their hands on an assault rifle and take out a high school class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Strict gun laws do not disarm citizens. They just make it a little harder for whackos to get their hands on an assault rifle and take out a high school class. The ghettos are filled with people who didn't seem to have any trouble getting guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 The ghettos are filled with people who didn't seem to have any trouble getting guns. True...it is ridiculously easy to get a gun regardless of feel good "gun control". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 True...it is ridiculously easy to get a gun regardless of feel good "gun control". You do realize just how ridiculous that statement is...no I guess not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I don't like knee jerk reactions. No need to remove the Confederate Flag. No need to ban all guns. Bad guys will always have guns. Racists will always be racist. Nothing anyone can do. We don't need the left clamping down on our freedoms any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 How about we talk about throwing violent criminals into prison and tossing away the key? I'm all for it. However, the illegal drug trade is apparently very lucrative. Want to drive a Bentley, Lamborghini, or top-of-the-line Range Rover? I don't see these outside doctor's offices or law offices... I see them at the grow-op supply shop. No matter how many drug people you throw in jail, that powerful lure of money is going to make sure there's somebody else to take their place. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Nothing anyone can do. We don't need the left clamping down on our freedoms any more. Feel free to express the helplessness of "nothing can be done". Meanwhile, the rest of us will be putting pressure on government to change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I don't like knee jerk reactions. No need to remove the Confederate Flag. No need to ban all guns. Bad guys will always have guns. Racists will always be racist. Nothing anyone can do. We don't need the left clamping down on our freedoms any more. Say, what happened to the defense of the Confederacy you promised? I was really looking forward to the laugh. Edited June 26, 2015 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm all for it. However, the illegal drug trade is apparently very lucrative. Want to drive a Bentley, Lamborghini, or top-of-the-line Range Rover? I don't see these outside doctor's offices or law offices... I see them at the grow-op supply shop. No matter how many drug people you throw in jail, that powerful lure of money is going to make sure there's somebody else to take their place. -k Judging by the $300 per oz being charged in legal dispensaries it'll be a long time before the lure of paying less than half that price to a biker or a Red Scorpion wears off. It's almost as if the government needs to increase criminality - to bring reality into line with it's rhetoric I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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