So what would an NDP government do?

[Argus]

I've been glancing through the NDP policy manual, something I suspect very, very few Canadians have done. There's an AWFUL lot of stuff there about increasing spending on almost everything, and there's a lot of suggestion of increased taxes in many areas which haven't gotten a lot of airplay.

Let's start with the impact of NDP policies on business. After all, the primary economic duty of a government is to provide a stable and business friendly environment so that business can grow and flourish - thus hiring lots of people who will then pay lots of taxes instead of consuming them as social assistance.

The first thing which we can take note of is a promise to increase taxes. They aren't specific here. As was noted in the Post they first promised to bring it in line with the OECD average until they found out we already were. Then they used the G7 but we're in line there too. So lately they're just saying we'll be below the Americans. The American rate is way above ours, giving them lots of room to raise corporate taxes by 5-6-10% if they want. The thing is the EFFECTIVE rate is much different, in the US than the posted rate. That's how some corporations make billions but pay no tax

Most economists seem to feel this is a bad way, even the worst way to raise money, by the way, preferring consumption taxes.

On top of the corporate tax increase the NDP promise a revenue raising emissions scheme, ie, a cap and trade tax which raises money for the government. So this would be an additional tax on corporate Canada as well.

There's something in there about 'regulating the flow of international capital' and a bunch of things about increasing oversight, banning vertical integration, and making sure bigger companies are 'fair' in how they deal with small business, and banning mergers in the financial sector.

Oh, and they'd tax capital gains at the same rate as salaries. This would have a simply ENORMOUS effect on not merely corporate investment, but foreign investment in corporations. It would also have an ENORMOUS effect on Canadians who are trying to save for retirement by investing in the stock market. Right now only 50% of capital gains are taxed. The NDP would effectively be doubling the rate.

And if you like having your pension gains taxed at a higher rate you'll love their promise to "the enhancement of the Gas Tax Fund transfers to municipalities." How do you enhance that when you're broke? By increasing gas taxes. No other way to do it.

There's also a promise to increase immigration to 1% of the population, that would be a substantial increase, and to focus immigration not on skilled immigrants but on family reunification. That's the same priority which got our public housing projects jammed with immigrants in the eighties and nineties. Bringing in hundreds of thousands of illiterate third world people who have little or no chance to successfully participate in Canada's job market at anything below unskilled labour levels. In fact, they would even allow the sponsorship of relatives who aren't members of the family class, say a distant cousin.

There's a bunch of stuff in there about recognizing Quebec is special, and giving it all kinds of new powers and options to opt out of federal programs while still being paid, supporting Quebec in protecting French, enhancing the powers of the Official Languages Commissioner, enhancing minority language services and improving bilingualism rates in all areas of Canada right down to local community services. You can sure tell this is a party which is Quebec based, much like the old time Liberals.

All in all it's a massive collection of changes, and much of it is not well-defined. I've only dealt with the ones which are obvious. This manifesto looks like it was written by lawyers to allow many passages to mean anything they decide they want them to mean.

Here is the NDP policy manual . http://xfer.ndp.ca/2013/policybook/2013-04-17-PolicyBook_E.pdf

Edited June 18, 2015 by Argus

[Canada_First]

Sounds like this would be damaging to the country.

[Vancouver King]

Only an unrepentant Conservative would object to large corporations paying their fair share of taxes. Conservatives made corporate tax cuts on the basis companies would "... hir(e) lots of people who will pay lots of taxes...". The problem was and still is, they did not engage in new hiring, choosing instead to sit on the hundreds of millions - or upping share dividends or paying more obscene bonuses to management.

Stephen Harper's economic overview involved making Canada an energy "super power" by promoting fossil fuel extraction for export at the expense of manufacturing. At the stroke of a pen the Saudis shattered his dream and his legacy can now be seen every week: businesses closing and manufacturing plants closing and/or headed south, thus destroying countless jobs that pay taxes.

The NDP needs no economic lessons from Harper the ideologue.

[cybercoma]

I've been glancing through the NDP policy manual, something I suspect very, very few Canadians have done. There's an AWFUL lot of stuff there about increasing spending on almost everything, and there's a lot of suggestion of increased taxes in many areas which haven't gotten a lot of airplay.

For all your concern, the NDP still turn more surpluses than Conservatives in this country.

[Canada_First]

Only an unrepentant Conservative would object to large corporations paying their fair share of taxes. Conservatives made corporate tax cuts on the basis companies would "... hir(e) lots of people who will pay lots of taxes...". The problem was and still is, they did not engage in new hiring, choosing instead to sit on the hundreds of millions - or upping share dividends or paying more obscene bonuses to management.

The NDP needs no economic lessons from Harper the ideologue.

Large corps hire all the time.

Is the NDP planning on putting in some right wing measures? No? Aren't they ideologues?

[Keepitsimple]

I've been glancing through the NDP policy manual, something I suspect very, very few Canadians have done. There's an AWFUL lot of stuff there about increasing spending on almost everything, and there's a lot of suggestion of increased taxes in many areas which haven't gotten a lot of airplay.

It will indeed be interesting. Once the writ is dropped, all parties have to have a platform with major policies that should be challenged by the media, as well of course, by the other parties. Like their platform or not, people should know already exactly what you'll get with another Conservative government. I think the bloom will come off the NDP rose pretty quickly as they are forced to put meat on the bones of their policies. But yes - what you've outlined as their intentions is pretty scary. Imagine increasing immigration from 280,000 all the way to 360,000 per year AND focusing on reunification - bringing over parents and grandparents to suck more life out of our Healthcare system while not paying taxes.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Keepitsimple

[Accountability Now]

For all your concern, the NDP still turn more surpluses than Conservatives in this country.

Are you talking provincially?

[eyeball]

I've been glancing through the NDP policy manual, something I suspect very, very few Canadians have done.

I've been aware of it for years. Here are the highlights most relevant to me.

Increasing research and development in aquaculture and fish farming to develop more sustainable practices.

With any luck this will mean putting fish farms in closed contained tanks on land where they belong so that...

Developing a West Coast Wild Salmon renewal program.

...can start.

There are thousands of miles of creeks, rivers and other water-courses that once sustained millions of salmon that need restoring and enhancing that DFO has long since abandoned in favour of fish farms and acquiescing to US demands that Canadian commercial fishermen be removed from the water.

We have a little very underutilized hatchery where I live that produced so many fish when it was built that it's first returns kept hundreds of fishermen and shore-workers busy for months. Instead of building more hatcheries in other communities that requested them DFO said no and pretty much shut our's down lest it create any more crazy ideas about little fishing communities creating sustainable opportunities for themselves up and down the west coast.

Of course...opportunity is one thing...who gets to benefit from that opportunity is another.

Reforming fishery regulation to protect small fish harvesters through co-management and community consultation to preserve stocks and ensure fairness in the allocation of licenses.

Consider this in light of other NDP ideas on facilitating more fairness in the economy - the best example I have of the sorts of injustice that years of Conservative and Liberal fisheries policies and management can result in is my own, like the time I earned $.15 a lb for halibut while the quota owner I was forced to lease the quota from earned $3.65.

Similar sorts of ridiculous disparities and inequities exist throughout the rest of economy as the result of Conservative and Liberal policies that kick the shit out of working people and facilitate the concentration of opportunity into the hands of the rich. Fishing communities are like canaries in a coal mine, except they tell you a lot about not just the health of the environment but also that of the economy and society and the governance of both - like I said our economy and society is filled with distortions and disparities that are similar to what you'll find in a fishing village, not just in Canada but just about anywhere else you look in the country and the world.

When coal miners ignored their canaries they did so at everyone's peril.

Right now only 50% of capital gains are taxed. The NDP would effectively be doubling the rate.

And I'd friggin' well triple it if I had anything to say about it.

[eyeball]

Are you talking provincially?

What else is there to talk about regarding this aspect of NDP performance? How or why does the absence of any existing prior federal NDP government change the reality they've proven to be better fiscal managers than any other party in power at either the provincial or federal level?

[Accountability Now]

What else is there to talk about regarding this aspect of NDP performance? How or why does the absence of any existing prior federal NDP government change the reality they've proven to be better fiscal managers than any other party in power at either the provincial or federal level?

You simply can't have a conversation about them being better at the federal level when they have never been at the federal level. Based on that logic you would be able to compare the Green Party, the Communist Party or even the Rhino party.

If he is in indeed talking provincially then I would like to see a citation backing that up. I have only ever heard of NDP running various provinces into the ground, however I have never seen stats on it.

[Argus]

And I'd friggin' well triple it if I had anything to say about it.

And this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Angry failures who have a deep bitterness and anger towards anyone who has more than them. Do we want this sort of thing to be in charge of Canada?

You know who gets capital gains? Everyone trying to save money. Everyone who doesn't have a pension and is saving for one. Everyone who does have a pension, but whose pension fund invests in the stock market. Foreign investors. Canadian companies and businesses. The first result of such a law would be that foreign investors would pull all their money out of Canadian companies and invest elsewhere. Canadians, like myself, would immediately stop investing in small cap companies which need my money to expand, and instead put their money into dividend stocks like the banks, telcos and pipelines. And any investment money in my RRSP or TSFA would go to American companies since I doubt ours would be going anywhere but down under all these new NDP tax increases.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Only an unrepentant Conservative would object to large corporations paying their fair share of taxes.

Business is who hires people. Government can't create jobs. Only business creates jobs. By making business less profitable, you wind up with fewer jobs. Putting in a bunch of policies designed to stick it to business only guarantees they stop investing in Canada, and that foreigners stop investing here, as well.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Argus

[Hal 9000]

I've been aware of it for years. Here are the highlights most relevant to me.

With any luck this will mean putting fish farms in closed contained tanks on land where they belong so that...

...can start.

There are thousands of miles of creeks, rivers and other water-courses that once sustained millions of salmon that need restoring and enhancing that DFO has long since abandoned in favour of fish farms and acquiescing to US demands that Canadian commercial fishermen be removed from the water.

We have a little very underutilized hatchery where I live that produced so many fish when it was built that it's first returns kept hundreds of fishermen and shore-workers busy for months. Instead of building more hatcheries in other communities that requested them DFO said no and pretty much shut our's down lest it create any more crazy ideas about little fishing communities creating sustainable opportunities for themselves up and down the west coast.

Of course...opportunity is one thing...who gets to benefit from that opportunity is another.

Consider this in light of other NDP ideas on facilitating more fairness in the economy - the best example I have of the sorts of injustice that years of Conservative and Liberal fisheries policies and management can result in is my own, like the time I earned $.15 a lb for halibut while the quota owner I was forced to lease the quota from earned $3.65.

Similar sorts of ridiculous disparities and inequities exist throughout the rest of economy as the result of Conservative and Liberal policies that kick the shit out of working people and facilitate the concentration of opportunity into the hands of the rich. Fishing communities are like canaries in a coal mine, except they tell you a lot about not just the health of the environment but also that of the economy and society and the governance of both - like I said our economy and society is filled with distortions and disparities that are similar to what you'll find in a fishing village, not just in Canada but just about anywhere else you look in the country and the world.

When coal miners ignored their canaries they did so at everyone's peril.

And I'd friggin' well triple it if I had anything to say about it.

Every fishery that has had problems always comes down to one thing; the fishermen. No matter what fishery in what province, it has been the fishermen. Over fishing their product and eventually selling their license to a buyer (usually Chinese) for the quick buck. This is why you get screwed for your halibut - in fact, why are you even depleting the product for that amount of money anyway? You can blame the giv't all you want, but the fisheries problems are all self inflicted.

Fish farms; well the only reason we have even a single salmon left in the ocean is because fish farms are supplying the world with a much needed commodity. You want them on land? When I hear this, I know the speaker knows nothing about the issue or the environmental impact of land based aquaculture. If you wonder where your salmon rivers have gone, look at ground water pollution from the fraser valley - that's a pretty good start.

[Argus]

Sounds like this would be damaging to the country.

Any hint of monetary controls, as is contained in their policy manual, would cause foreign investment to plunge. Add in multiple new taxes on corporations and doubling the capital gains tax and foreign investment in this country would drop like a rock.

[Argus]

Are you talking provincially?

What one has to bear in mind is that Canadians love free spending governments. They love governments that promise them a ton of things. Usually what happens is that a liberal or NDP government runs the place into the ground, then when people finally start getting worried about the big deficits, they elect a conservative party to fix things. Of course, that tends to take a while. That was what happened when Mulroney was elected, as well as Mike Harris.

[eyeball]

You simply can't have a conversation about them being better at the federal level when they have never been at the federal level.

By the same token you can't say they'll be worse than the others.

[Argus]

By the same token you can't say they'll be worse than the others.

I can after I look at their policy manual.

Mind you, I will look at the Liberal policy manual in a day or two, when I have time.

[eyeball]

And this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Angry failures who have a deep bitterness and anger towards anyone who has more than them. Do we want this sort of thing to be in charge of Canada?

What I'm talking about is an ideology that views angry people who've been dispossessed and screwed over by government policy as failures. I'm sick of seeing that in charge in Canada.

[eyeball]

Every fishery that has had problems always comes down to one thing; the fishermen. No matter what fishery in what province, it has been the fishermen.

Every fishery in Canada has a government fishery manager in charge of it sometimes whole teams of managers, boatloads of them in fact. Think about that in terms of cause and effect a little longer before blaming fishermen for catching fish while a fishery is open.

Over fishing their product and eventually selling their license to a buyer (usually Chinese) for the quick buck. This is why you get screwed for your halibut - in fact, why are you even depleting the product for that amount of money anyway? You can blame the giv't all you want, but the fisheries problems are all self inflicted.

I have no choice but to keep the halibut. I'm charged even more if I throw it back. The cameras monitoring my fishing activity will reveal that I threw it back and I'll have to pay the quota owner $3.80 a lb for the fish. He wins no matter what, I lose no matter what, and you the owner of the resource are obviously and painfully oblivious to this state of affairs. You think it's because of quick Chinese bucks.

Fish farms; well the only reason we have even a single salmon left in the ocean is because fish farms are supplying the world with a much needed commodity. You want them on land? When I hear this, I know the speaker knows nothing about the issue or the environmental impact of land based aquaculture.

The toughest thing a person from a fishing community has to overcome is the abject ignorance of the same voters we need to rely on to fix the mismanagement within government. Of course this is what makes the governments job of managing environmental protection or fisheries so easy.

Farmed salmon...where to begin...lets start with your notion that farming reduces impacts on other fish in the ocean. Did you not realize that is takes up to 8 kg of other wild fish to produce 1 kg of farmed salmon? Don't forget you're raising a predator. Then there is the effect diseases and other pathogens that introduced Atlantic salmon have had on native species here in BC.

If you wonder where your salmon rivers have gone, look at ground water pollution from the fraser valley - that's a pretty good start.

I don't wonder where our salmon rivers went at all, I spent 6 years working to restore watersheds that were damaged by over-logging and over-development in my region. Nobody does much if any of that anymore although there still lots of over-logging and over-development going on. I notice the NDP say it will stop the export of raw logs out of the province so hopefully that will slow down the over-logging a bit.

But in any case why are you citing groundwater pollution in the Fraser Valley as being related to problems in the salmon fishery after stating Every fishery that has had problems always comes down to one thing; the fishermen. No matter what fishery in what province, it has been the fishermen.

Fisheries managers must laugh their asses off as hard as fishermen cry when Joe public sticks his dumb-ass nose in their business.

Edited June 19, 2015 by eyeball

[cybercoma]

I can after I look at their policy manual.

Mind you, I will look at the Liberal policy manual in a day or two, when I have time.

While you're at it are you going to look at the Conservatives massive deficits, largest cabinet in Canadian history, and pillaging billions out of EI to "balance" their budget? We don't even have to look at their policy, since it's entirely BS. We can see exactly what kind of fiscal managers they've been. We can even count the half a million jobs that Canada has lost since they've been in power.

[Argus]

What I'm talking about is an ideology that views angry people who've been dispossessed and screwed over by government policy as failures. I'm sick of seeing that in charge in Canada.

I didn't disposes you. All those people with pension money tied up in the stock market didn't disposes you either. All; those people who would lose their jobs if investment money stops coming into Canada didn't disposes you. And if you're angry and bitter at us all that would seem to mark you as a failure who's just lashing out.

[Accountability Now]

By the same token you can't say they'll be worse than the others.

And by the same token we can't say they'd be better. Since we can't use these tokens we are forced to use logic, which is what Argus is doing by reviewing their platform

[Derek 2.0]

An NDP corporate tax rate of 18-19% would likely cede the remaining lumber and pulp/paper industry in Canada, namely located in British Columbia, to India....India, the same country that welcomed BC market share in the industries after the working-over the BC NDP Government did to the forestry industry in British Columbia in the 1990s........

--------

Likewise, the apparent confusion from within their own party aside, of a Federal NDP bringing back a form of long gun registry:

The NDP leader says his party is committed to ensuring police have the ability to track firearms.

But it’s still working out the details of how to do that without running into the problems that plagued the Liberal-instituted registry that was scrapped by Stephen Harper’s Conservative government.

I'm sure the Federal NDP's firearms policy (Ban all guns!!!!) will be made known in the coming weeks and months to all 2 million+ legal Canadian Firearms owners.........that ought to do wonders for the NDP in rural Ontario and Western Canada........

Edited June 19, 2015 by Derek 2.0

[Bryan]

We can see exactly what kind of fiscal managers they've been.

Yes, we can. One of the best this country has ever seen. A minority parliament forced a massive deficit upon them that was not part of their plan at all, and they still managed to substantially cut taxes, grow the economy, increase government revenue, restore the funding that the previous government had cut, make substantial increases to many essential programs, and still retire that deficit in record time. And they did all of that despite weathering a massive global recession in the middle of it.

[Hal 9000]

The fisheries were taken over by Chinese buyers in 90's helped by the provincial BC NDP. Allowing licenses to be sold to foreign entities was a provincial decision not federal as evidenced by New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and others refusing to allow license holders to be outside of Canada - in fact you couldn't have a commercial license there if you were even out of province in those other areas.

Go check wild fish at the market and somewhere on the packaging will likely have a Chinese business name.

As for raw timber, that's another one that was provincial NDP of the 90's. The NDP and their unions made it impossible for mills to compete and raw timber was shipped off to Japan. It was actually more lucrative to ship it to Japan and buy it back than it was to mill it ourselves. Remember all mill closures? I do!