Truth and Reconciliation... Legitimacy

Michael Hardner · July 10, 2015

Read the TRC Report.

If this claim is in there, it should be easy enough for you to back up your statement with a cite.

TimG · July 10, 2015

Read the TRC Report

A collection of unsubstantiated opinions is not evidence. If there is actually concrete evidence in the report then you can point out exactly where.

Second-class Canadian · July 10, 2015

Just read "They came for the Children", published by the TRC and freely available on its website in PDF form. Much of it is there.

Second-class Canadian · July 10, 2015

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/manitoba/psychic-experiments-conducted-on-brandon-residential-school-kids-1.2898114

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/thunder-bay/ear-experiments-done-on-kids-at-kenora-residential-school-1.1343992

http://midislandnews.com/canadas-nutrition-experiments-on-first-nations-1942-1952

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/aboriginal/new-documents-may-shed-light-on-residential-school-deaths-1.2487015

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com//full-comment/sarah-daitch-exposing-the-dark-legacy-of-residential-schools

This is a start.

cybercoma · July 10, 2015

This has NOT been shown. It is simply an assumption pulled out of hat by some researcher. You have a very bad habit of taking unsubstantiated opinions and treating them as facts simply because someone put them in a "study".

You have a very bad habit of not understanding the research that's presented to you and completely ignoring people when they explain it to you. It has been shown and it's generally accepted by researchers and pollsters, regardless of whether you want to recognize it or not.

cybercoma · July 10, 2015

Exactly, which is why it is NOT genocide. It makes no sense to use the term "genocide" to describe a policy objective that would have been completely acceptable if it was voluntary.

Hey, guys! No sense calling it what it was because it could have been something that it wasn't! :lol:

cybercoma · July 10, 2015

You have a poor grasp of the English language.

You have a poor grasp of logic and intelligence.

See how this insult thing works?

cybercoma · July 10, 2015

If this claim is in there, it should be easy enough for you to back up your statement with a cite.

Uh...

http://www.cpha.ca/en/programs/history/achievements/02-id/tb-aboriginal.aspx

Death rates in the 1930s and 1940s were in excess of 700 deaths per 100,000 persons ... TB death rates among children in residential schools were even worse — as high as 8,000 deaths per 100,000 children.

These numbers are are from primary documents. Unless you've got an agenda or are a complete moron, there's no way to look at those numbers and not see a huge glaring problem. A TB death rate (not even infection rate) of over 1142% higher than the general public takes effort.

cybercoma · July 10, 2015

A collection of unsubstantiated opinions is not evidence.

I guess you disagree with eye witness testimony at trials too, eh? I mean, what those witnesses, uh, witnessed is just their unsubstantiated opinions.

jacee · July 10, 2015

Exactly, which is why it is NOT genocide. It makes no sense to use the term "genocide" to describe a policy objective that would have been completely acceptable if it was voluntary.

?

Ahhh ... TimG ... by your logic ...

There are no crimes,

because they all "would have been completely acceptable if it was voluntary.

Breaking and entering

(I could have just invited them in ... but I didn't!)

Robbery

(I could have just given them the stuff ... but I didn't!)

Rape (I could have agreed to have sex ... but I didn't!)

Extortion

Fraud

...

I guess we may as well just throw the Criminal Code away, in TimG illogic, because all those crimes against people ...

"would have been completely acceptable if it was voluntary."

:lol: :lol:

So ... I'm coming to get your house, your car, boat, your bank accounts ... your children, your wife and whole family ... and anything else I want, TimG.

Because ...

"that would have been completely acceptable if it was voluntary."

That is, without a doubt, the stupidest thing I have ever read on this board ... or anywhere else. :/

.

Edited July 10, 2015 by jacee

eyeball · July 10, 2015

All this shows is Goebbels is right: repeat a lie enough and people will start to believe it. That said, it is difficult to know how many people actually heard the arguments against the the term because a lot of the media coverage was so sycophantic (the NP being the lone exception). I know from private conversations that I had that people are generally inclined to agree with the term but once I explained the reasons why I am against the term they would agree with me.

How many times did you have to repeat yourself before they started believing you?

On Guard for Thee · July 10, 2015

Ahhh ... TimG ... by your logic ...

There are no crimes,

because they all "would have been completely acceptable if it was voluntary.

Breaking and entering

(I could have just invited them in ... but I didn't!)

Robbery

(I could have just given them the stuff ... but I didn't!)

Rape (I could have agreed to have sex ... but I didn't!)

Extortion

Fraud

...

I guess we may as well just throw the Criminal Code away, in TimG illogic, because all those crimes against people ...

"would have been completely acceptable if it was voluntary."

:lol:

So ... I'm coming to get your house, your car, boat, your bank accounts ... your children, your wife and whole family ... and anything else I want, TimG.

Because ...

"that would have been completely acceptable if it was voluntary."

That is, without a doubt, the stupidest thing I have ever read on this board ... or anywhere else. :/

.

Interesting. I have to admit I was scratching my head thinking, I must be missing something here, but no, I think you nailed it. It is what it is, whatever that is.

Second-class Canadian · July 10, 2015

The indigenous peoples wanted education the same way the Japanese did. They wanted to learn foreign knowledge but while maintaining their own culture. They never intended for a deliberate act of cultural genocide to be imposed on them.

TimG · July 10, 2015

I guess you disagree with eye witness testimony at trials

Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. I have lost track of the number of innocent people convicted over the years on the strength of "eye-witness testimony".

http://www.innocenceproject.org/causes-wrongful-conviction/eyewitness-misidentification

Eyewitness misidentification is the greatest contributing factor to wrongful convictions proven by DNA testing, playing a role in more than 70% of convictions overturned through DNA testing nationwide.

Anyone who draws conclusions from eye witness accounts alone needs to have their head examined. Independent corroborating evidence is essential. Unfortunately, the TRC report is full of completely unsubstantiated "eye witness" testimony that we are told to accept as fact. Edited July 10, 2015 by TimG

On Guard for Thee · July 11, 2015

Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. I have lost track of the number of innocent people convicted over the years on the strength of "eye-witness testimony".

http://www.innocenceproject.org/causes-wrongful-conviction/eyewitness-misidentification

Anyone who draws conclusions from eye witness accounts alone needs to have their head examined. Independent corroborating evidence is essential. Unfortunately, the TRC report is full of completely unsubstantiated "eye witness" testimony that we are told to accept as fact.

Eyewitness reports of airplane crashes can be unreliable because the people often dont have the technical background to understand what they saw. I think when it comes to physical or sexual abuse, most of us could accurately describe what happened.

TimG · July 11, 2015

I think when it comes to physical or sexual abuse, most of us could accurately describe what happened.

Which is your unsubstantiated opinion. When it comes to residential schools various activists have fixated on as source of all problems in the native community today. This environment pretty much guarantees that some of the reports will be false even if the people involved believe they are telling the truth because the social environment rewards people with horrific stories with attention and sympathy. We have no data that would allow us to determine the percentage of fabrications.

On Guard for Thee · July 11, 2015

Which is your unsubstantiated opinion. When it comes to residential schools various activists have fixated on as source of all problems in the native community today. This environment pretty much guarantees that some of the reports will be false even if the people involved believe they are telling the truth because the social environment rewards people with horrific stories with attention and sympathy. We have no data that would allow us to determine the percentage of fabrications.

So you recko that people who actually experienced the abuse is not data i your books. I see you continue to employ the same ridiculous logic that Jacee took the time to point out to you. Amazing!

blueblood · July 11, 2015

So you recko that people who actually experienced the abuse is not data i your books. I see you continue to employ the same ridiculous logic that Jacee took the time to point out to you. Amazing!

If u think some people wouldnt make stuff up to get a shot at some possible money that legitimate victims have fought to get, i have a bridge to sell you. There is no way to truly figure out whats legit and whats not, hence the lump sum payout.

Smallc · July 11, 2015

So you recko that people who actually experienced the abuse is not data i your books.

It's not, and if you think it is, you don't know what data is.

jacee · July 11, 2015

It's not, and if you think it is, you don't know what data is.

Well I see you've joined TimG in his race to the ridiculous. :lol:

.

Edited July 11, 2015 by jacee

Smallc · July 11, 2015

Well I see you've joined TimG in his race to the ridiculous.

.

Yeah, sorry for pointing out what data is.

Second-class Canadian · July 11, 2015

Even if we ignore the survivors' claims and look only at the government's own records of the time, the government itself acknowledges that its clear and explicit objective amounted to an act of cultural genocide, the explicit goal being to annihilate indigenous languages and cultures by all means. Even when cases of abuse and death rates were brought to the government's attention, the Government, rather than questioning them, responded by accepting death as the price to pay for those who fail to adapt but that the policy must be unwavering. Just read "They Came for the Children", available in PDF format on the TRC's own site. Are we now going to say that we can't trust the government's own policies and correspondence of the time?

jacee · July 11, 2015

Yeah, sorry for pointing out what data is.

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was a court ordered process resulting from the governments' responsibility for the atrocities committed against thousands of children who were victims of horrible prejudices, abuses and death for over 100 years.

What "data" would you like to have to make appropriate judgements on that?

.

Smallc · July 11, 2015

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was a court ordered process resulting from the governments' responsibility for the atrocities committed against thousands of children who were victims of horrible prejudices, abuses and death for over 100 years.

What "data" would you like to have to make appropriate judgements on that?

.

I'm in favour of the payouts to end the problem. I'm in favour of a lot of other things to end the problem too. To pretend that any human account of life is 100% accurate is to fool yourself.

TimG · July 11, 2015

because they all "would have been completely acceptable if it was voluntary.

So you think that assimilation is bad and immigrants who come here should not learn English or French and should not adopt the values and norms of this society. And if they do it is a "crime"? Edited July 11, 2015 by TimG