Feminism has destroyed more lives than it's advanced.

[Freddy]

Feeling frustrated and trapped is a pretty natural byproduct of the natural circumstances of child reproduction and it has ever been thus. Basically, you want women who are blissful brood mares.

Someone who accepts and embraces what nature intended them to do.

[Hal 9000]

"I didn't read the study because why would I want to learn from people who spend their lives studying, researching, and understanding issues that I know nothing about? I'd rather just settle on uninformed opinions than fact-finding evidence-based research."

Here is an article with a "study" with stats, should I believe this to it's entirety?

"This will be long – sorry about that. I think it’s important, and I don’t want to break it into too many parts. By the way, some of you who think, “this does not apply to my wife” will be wrong.

There has been a lot of news recently about the “Fifty Shades of Grey” trilogy. It’s being called by some “mommy porn” but it’s audience is far wider. As I understand it, the book features a young virgin woman who willingly becomes a sex slave to a billionaire who is into bondage, domination, and sadism. According the blurb from the publisher, “the couple embarks on a daring, passionately physical affair, Ana discovers Christian Grey’s secrets and explores her own dark desires.” In other words, they have a lot of BDSM sex.

I bring this up because it’s not an isolated indecent. HBO’s new series “Girls” reportedly (I’ve not seen it) features a lot of sex which is not at all loving towards the women, and one character is openly into being sexually submissive. There has been a 30% increase in the sale of “erotic novels” in the last year. Women are responsible for the majority of the growth, and 95% of the total audience for such books. Much of the increase in sales may be because e-readers allow women to buy sexual content without having to face a clerk, and several publishers have jumped on this by setting up very sexual erotic fiction lines aimed at e-readers. These stories are not just sexed up versions of the romance novels of the past; there are many detailed sex scenes. Much of it is kinky to the extreme, and a good deal of it is sex where the woman is submissive, bound, or hurt as part of the sex act. To be blunt, much of this is hard porn, and not very nice hard porn at that.

There are no lack of theories on why this is happening, and what it means. Some see it as women reacting to their discomfort over having more power and authority. Others see it as women finally coming out from under the shadow of men sexually. (By being sexually submissive? How does that work?) Still others see it as expressing a female need for a strong sex partner in a world where most men have become wimps. Some see it as harmless, some as troubling, and some proclaim it good and healthy. My take is most of these women are bored sexually and romantically, and they are looking for a thrill. I think there is a natural tendency for women to be the less aggressive partner in sex, which is why this type of fiction works for them. I also see it as a disturbing trend and a future source of sexual problems for couples."

- See more at: http://www.the-generous-husband.com/2012/05/05/a-disturbing-trend-in-female-sexual-preferances/#sthash.nwZRzRRt.dpuf

Edited June 2, 2015 by Hal 9000

[Freddy]

Here is an article with a "study" with stats, should I believe this to it's entirety?

"This will be long sorry about that. I think its important, and I dont want to break it into too many parts. By the way, some of you who think, this does not apply to my wife will be wrong.

There has been a lot of news recently about the Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy. Its being called by some mommy porn but its audience is far wider. As I understand it, the book features a young virgin woman who willingly becomes a sex slave to a billionaire who is into bondage, domination, and sadism. According the blurb from the publisher, the couple embarks on a daring, passionately physical affair, Ana discovers Christian Greys secrets and explores her own dark desires. In other words, they have a lot of BDSM sex.

I bring this up because its not an isolated indecent. HBOs new series Girls reportedly (Ive not seen it) features a lot of sex which is not at all loving towards the women, and one character is openly into being sexually submissive. There has been a 30% increase in the sale of erotic novels in the last year. Women are responsible for the majority of the growth, and 95% of the total audience for such books. Much of the increase in sales may be because e-readers allow women to buy sexual content without having to face a clerk, and several publishers have jumped on this by setting up very sexual erotic fiction lines aimed at e-readers. These stories are not just sexed up versions of the romance novels of the past; there are many detailed sex scenes. Much of it is kinky to the extreme, and a good deal of it is sex where the woman is submissive, bound, or hurt as part of the sex act. To be blunt, much of this is hard porn, and not very nice hard porn at that.

There are no lack of theories on why this is happening, and what it means. Some see it as women reacting to their discomfort over having more power and authority. Others see it as women finally coming out from under the shadow of men sexually. (By being sexually submissive? How does that work?) Still others see it as expressing a female need for a strong sex partner in a world where most men have become wimps. Some see it as harmless, some as troubling, and some proclaim it good and healthy. My take is most of these women are bored sexually and romantically, and they are looking for a thrill. I think there is a natural tendency for women to be the less aggressive partner in sex, which is why this type of fiction works for them. I also see it as a disturbing trend and a future source of sexual problems for couples."

- See more at: http://www.the-generous-husband.com/2012/05/05/a-disturbing-trend-in-female-sexual-preferances/#sthash.nwZRzRRt.dpuf

Billions of years of evolution at work here folks.

We are the product of what is the most efficient at reproduction.

What wasn't go's extinct every generation.

Sure explains why we such a horny bunch of bastards:)

And this is why I'm not to worried about feminism. It will remove itself naturally.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Freddy

[Hal 9000]

"I didn't read the study because why would I want to learn from people who spend their lives studying, researching, and understanding issues that I know nothing about? I'd rather just settle on uninformed opinions than fact-finding evidence-based research."

I didn't immediately read the article because first off, I didn't really care one way or another. I doesn't apply to me and doesn't apply to the topic at hand. Secondly, I pretty much knew that I'd be reading not a study, but some persons opinion of a study. When I see that, I know the biasses that come into play and no matter what was said would not amount to "fact-finding evidence-based research", but merely someone's political agenda.

Well, after WCR inspired me to read the article, what I found was exactly what I expected to find. And, not only did I read that article, but I followed every link and every link from those links and some of the articles supported this position, while others showed the same "study" and same finding and interpreted them 180 degrees opposite. In the end, I eventually linked to the actual "study" and found that they basically said there is no empirical evidence to show that equal housework correlates to better sex or even relationships. They also pointed out that this was a baseless study that was picked up and misinterpreted by everyone including the AP.

​The only thing we know for sure is that some women admittedly withhold sex as punishment for men not doing what they're told and other women using sex as a reward for men doing (what they consider) their share. Yeah, this is healthy!

You are the one believing "opinions" as facts, I choose to be more hesitant when I hear the words "new study".

[Black Dog]

Someone who accepts and embraces what nature intended them to do.

Being a docile brood sow. I got it the first time.

[Black Dog]

Here is an article with a "study" with stats, should I believe this to it's entirety?

There's no study there. There's some straightforward stats about book sales. The rest is just some mook's opinion. If you don't understand the difference between that and an actual scientific study, I suggest you go back to school.

In the end, I eventually linked to the actual "study" and found that they basically said there is no empirical evidence to show that equal housework correlates to better sex or even relationships. They also pointed out that this was a baseless study that was picked up and misinterpreted by everyone including the AP.

So the study itself says the study is bogus? I find that extremely difficult to believe.

[Hal 9000]

There's no study there. There's some straightforward stats about book sales. The rest is just some mook's opinion. If you don't understand the difference between that and an actual scientific study, I suggest you go back to school.

So the study itself says the study is bogus? I find that extremely difficult to believe.

Exactly, and there is no "study" in what you posted either. That's why I rounded the word in quotations. Your article was nothing more than a salacious headline and a different mook's opinion.

As for the actual study, you clearly haven't read that yet - ironic!

[Black Dog]

Exactly, and there is no "study" in what you posted either. That's why I rounded the word in quotations. Your article was nothing more than a salacious headline and a different mook's opinion.

No. it was an analysis of a study. There's a link in there and everything.

Carlson and his co-authors analyzed data on housework and sex from the 2006 Marital and Relationship Survey on a representative sample of 600 married and cohabiting low-to-moderate income couples with children.

They found that couples who shared the routine housework equitably had the most sex, about 7.74 times a month. They reported the highest level of satisfaction with that frequency, compared to the other couples, and also the highest quality of the sexual relationship.

Egalitarian couples were also substantially happier with the division of labor around the house than couples in the other arrangements. And women in egalitarian relationships were much more satisfied than their partners in the frequency of sex.

As for the actual study, you clearly haven't read that yet - ironic!

I read the executive summary by the report's authors. I doubt you did that much.

[Hal 9000]

No. it was an analysis of a study. There's a link in there and everything.

I read the executive summary by the report's authors. I doubt you did that much.

I just told you I did. In fact, I quoted a large chunk of it (as sort of a 2nd part to post #154) but because I didn't give an opinion Charles deleted it.

[Black Dog]

I just told you I did. In fact, I quoted a large chunk of it (as sort of a 2nd part to post #154) but because I didn't give an opinion Charles deleted it.

Can you specifically indicate where in the study it says there is no empirical evidence to show that equal housework correlates to better sex or even relationships and where study indicates that it was baseless? THX

[cybercoma]

There's no study there. There's some straightforward stats about book sales. The rest is just some mook's opinion. If you don't understand the difference between that and an actual scientific study, I suggest you go back to school.

lol, why bother? At some point, you've just got to go, "I'm dealing with someone who clearly doesn't understand things."

[Freddy]

lol, why bother? At some point, you've just got to go, "I'm dealing with someone who clearly doesn't understand things."

.

Even worse, he thinks he understands things.

[Black Dog]

.

Even worse, he thinks he understands things.

This is just outstanding.

[Hal 9000]

Can you specifically indicate where in the study it says there is no empirical evidence to show that equal housework correlates to better sex or even relationships and where study indicates that it was baseless? THX

When I get to a computer I'll find the actual study as reported by the ASA and quote if for you. I'd suggest you read it, but clearly a biased summary is good enough for you and Cyber.

[Freddy]

When I get to a computer I'll find the actual study as reported by the ASA and quote if for you. I'd suggest you read it, but clearly a biased summary is good enough for you and Cyber.

that link means nothing to this thread, you would have to be suggesting only feminist males are doing housework. This is completely ridiculous.

Here is a list of traditional male household work. Shovelling, house repair, planting, cutting trees and grass, change the oil in the vehicle. Prep the pool, cut and cord fire wood.

I'm willing to take a bet old fashioned males do more housework then feminist males.

Women love feminist men because their always sucking up to them.

They love traditional males because we make them wet in their underpants.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Freddy

[Hal 9000]

lol, why bother? At some point, you've just got to go, "I'm dealing with someone who clearly doesn't understand things."

Wait, are you and Black Dog actually saying that you believe any study without question? I really need to know. I've heard about people who believe everything they read, but never thought they actually existed.

Are you one of these people, or do you think a study like this could be wrong?

[Hal 9000]

OK, so i'm not going to quote all 50 pages of the report. I have said at least twice that this housework issue is not my issue and therefore have "no dog in the fight" as Dr. Phil would say. The following quotes are merely shown as evidence that not all studies are accurate as perceived by the MSM. What I left out was excerpts from some people who are mentioned in the report that argue that men doing more housework makes the marriage happier and thus more frequent sex (still unproven)...because you already believe that. I also left out portions that touch on sex as a commodity that women possess and use as a tool for personal gain.

With that said; the actual report and all the data collected from several resources shows that "gender-traditional" couples have more and better sex than "egalitarian" couples and housework plays little (if any) role in sexual frequency.

ASA :

"The claim that couples who share house work have more sex has captured substantial public attention. In the popular imagination, husbands’ contributions to housework seem decisive, the implications of which were recently spun in a headline: “Men: Want More Sex? Do the Laundry!” This claim appears to have originated in an unpublished survey conducted by Chethik (2006). It so captured the popular imagination (or at least that of reporters) that it led to an Associated Press story subsequently featured online by media giants ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX, and smaller sites like the Huffington Post and China Daily.

Sex is an understudied but important component of marriage, continuing to be a central area of spousal concern and conflict (Elliott and Umberson 2008). Sexual activity is linked to marital satisfaction, but there have been few recent attempts to understand the organization of sexual frequency in marriage (Call, Spre- cher, and Schwartz 1995; although see Gager and Yabiku 2010; Yabiku and Gager 2009). Romantic and sexual scripts are often highly gendered outside marriage (Udry and Chantala 2004), and we suspect they remain so within marriage.

Although the notion that egalitarian marriages are sexier was widely broadcast in the media, there is little empirical support for this view. The claim rests on results of a small scale (N = 300) survey and reports of couples in therapy conducted by Chethik, which, while intriguing, are difficult to evaluate (Chethik 2006; cf. North 2007). Moreover, other research suggests that for all the benefits of peer marriage, more egalitarian couples are more likely to have unsatisfactory sex lives and experience a lack of passion due to habituation, and these differences are not explained by a shortage of time.While couples in more traditional marriages may experience a range of marital difficulties, lower sexual interest is especially a problem among egalitarian couples. More recent research finds that husbands’ housework is positively linked to sexual frequency, but women’s own housework hours are even more strongly associated with sexual frequency, suggesting that greater egalitarianism may not be associated with higher sexual frequency (Gager and Yabiku 2010).

Our results do not support the notion that more egalitarian divisions of labor are associated with higher sexual frequency. Instead, we find that households in which men do more traditionally male labor and women do more traditionally female labor report higher sexual frequency. This suggests that among heterosexual couples, the relationship between housework and a couple’s sex life is governed by a gendered set of sexual scripts.

We note three plausible mechanisms that might link sexual frequency to gender traditional divisions of housework: (1) gender traditional divisions of labor increase sexual desire and thus sexual frequency, (2) both result from gender traditional beliefs or are ways of doing gender, and (3) gender traditional arrangements may increase relationship satisfaction, which in itself leads to greater sexual frequency."

Edited June 4, 2015 by Hal 9000

[Freddy]

OK, so i'm not going to quote all 50 pages of the report. I have said at least twice that this housework issue is not my issue and therefore have "no dog in the fight" as Dr. Phil would say. The following quotes are merely shown as evidence that not all studies are accurate as perceived by the MSM. What I left out was excerpts from some people who are mentioned in the report that argue that men doing more housework makes the marriage happier and thus more frequent sex (still unproven)...because you already believe that. I also left out portions that touch on sex as a commodity that women possess and use as a tool for personal gain.

With that said; the actual report and all the data collected from several resources shows that "gender-traditional" couples have more and better sex than "egalitarian" couples and housework plays little (if any) role in sexual frequency.

ASA :

"The claim that couples who share house work have more sex has captured substantial public attention. In the popular imagination, husbands’ contributions to housework seem decisive, the implications of which were recently spun in a headline: “Men: Want More Sex? Do the Laundry!” This claim appears to have originated in an unpublished survey conducted by Chethik (2006). It so captured the popular imagination (or at least that of reporters) that it led to an Associated Press story subsequently featured online by media giants ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX, and smaller sites like the Huffington Post and China Daily.

Sex is an understudied but important component of marriage, continuing to be a central area of spousal concern and conflict (Elliott and Umberson 2008). Sexual activity is linked to marital satisfaction, but there have been few recent attempts to understand the organization of sexual frequency in marriage (Call, Spre- cher, and Schwartz 1995; although see Gager and Yabiku 2010; Yabiku and Gager 2009). Romantic and sexual scripts are often highly gendered outside marriage (Udry and Chantala 2004), and we suspect they remain so within marriage.

Although the notion that egalitarian marriages are sexier was widely broadcast in the media, there is little empirical support for this view. The claim rests on results of a small scale (N = 300) survey and reports of couples in therapy conducted by Chethik, which, while intriguing, are difficult to evaluate (Chethik 2006; cf. North 2007). Moreover, other research suggests that for all the benefits of peer marriage, more egalitarian couples are more likely to have unsatisfactory sex lives and experience a lack of passion due to habituation, and these differences are not explained by a shortage of time.While couples in more traditional marriages may experience a range of marital difficulties, lower sexual interest is especially a problem among egalitarian couples. More recent research finds that husbands’ housework is positively linked to sexual frequency, but women’s own housework hours are even more strongly associated with sexual frequency, suggesting that greater egalitarianism may not be associated with higher sexual frequency (Gager and Yabiku 2010).

Our results do not support the notion that more egalitarian divisions of labor are associated with higher sexual frequency. Instead, we find that households in which men do more traditionally male labor and women do more traditionally female labor report higher sexual frequency. This suggests that among heterosexual couples, the relationship between housework and a couple’s sex life is governed by a gendered set of sexual scripts.

We note three plausible mechanisms that might link sexual frequency to gender traditional divisions of housework: (1) gender traditional divisions of labor increase sexual desire and thus sexual frequency, (2) both result from gender traditional beliefs or are ways of doing gender, and (3) gender traditional arrangements may increase relationship satisfaction, which in itself leads to greater sexual frequency."

So feminist men get rewarded with unsatisfactory commodity sex for being total suck up.

And traditional males naturally turn women on with their display of masculinity resulting in very satisfying sex and multiple orgasm for the women.

[Black Dog]

OK, so i'm not going to quote all 50 pages of the report. I have said at least twice that this housework issue is not my issue and therefore have "no dog in the fight" as Dr. Phil would say. The following quotes are merely shown as evidence that not all studies are accurate as perceived by the MSM. What I left out was excerpts from some people who are mentioned in the report that argue that men doing more housework makes the marriage happier and thus more frequent sex (still unproven)...because you already believe that. I also left out portions that touch on sex as a commodity that women possess and use as a tool for personal gain.

Where's the link for this?

Edited June 4, 2015 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

Ok I googled a few key words to find out the source of the wall of text above. It's here.

It's also not the study the original link was talking about.

Here's the bit from the article:

But it turns out, using more recent data from 2006, couples who split the housework fairly are the happiest between the sheets. They have the most sex, are the most satisfied with their sex lives, and express the highest level of sexual intimacy.

That’s at least according to new work that will be presented at the upcoming American Sociological Association annual meeting.

“The conventional view, based on data that’s a quarter century old, is that sexual arousal for heterosexual couples is dependent traditional gender roles, on a man being manly and a woman being feminine,” said Dan Carlson, a sociology professor at Georgia State University and one of the authors of the new study. “But given the changes in attitudes over time and what people want, we weren’t so sure that conventional gender behavior was the only thing that turns people on anymore.

FTR that study is here.

[Hal 9000]

First off, the ASA study and Carlson's study do overlap and use much of the same data. Carlson has merely changed some of the criteria and chosen to reduce the demographics down to a favourable grouping. One can easily look at his track record of "studies" and deduce that this is a guy who has the answer he needs and finds ways of getting there rather than building a study in order to find an answer.

Nevertheless, I was never interested in arguing the question posed in the "study", my argument is that a "study" can be anything the author or interpreter want it to be. And, considering that we've learned there are many studies on the topic all conflicting with Carlson, my point remains; you can't believe a "study" just because someone says so.

P.S - Until the ASA formally accepts this "study", I think I'll stick to the findings made by nearly every other sociologist.

Because you believe all "new studies", I've compiled a few that might interest you.

http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/07/17/devout-catholics-have-better-sex

http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/2015/05/11/new-study-suggests-the-beatles-arent-as-important-as-you-think/

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

[Hal 9000]

Ok I googled a few key words to find out the source of the wall of text above. It's here.

It's also not the study the original link was talking about.

Here's the bit from the article:

FTR that study is here.

Another thing; this isn't the source of the text that I referred to.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Hal 9000

[Bonam]

One can easily look at his track record of "studies" and deduce that this is a guy who has the answer he needs and finds ways of getting there rather than building a study in order to find an answer.

Which, sadly, can be said of a great many (though not all) studies in the so called "social sciences".

Frankly, these sciences are in the same stage of development as chemistry was when it was still called alchemy, or as astronomy was when the most important "conclusions" from it were astrology. That is to say... there is a lot of useful stuff there to discover and learn, but people are only starting to dip their toes into the vast sea of knowledge to be gained, and are mostly not yet up to the task of discovering anything meaningful.

[Hal 9000]

Which, sadly, can be said of a great many (though not all) studies in the so called "social sciences".

Frankly, these sciences are in the same stage of development as chemistry was when it was still called alchemy, or as astronomy was when the most important "conclusions" from it were astrology. That is to say... there is a lot of useful stuff there to discover and learn, but people are only starting to dip their toes into the vast sea of knowledge to be gained, and are mostly not yet up to the task of discovering anything meaningful.

True dat! I don't think you can get away from it though. Science has become too political.

[Freddy]

Ok I googled a few key words to find out the source of the wall of text above. It's here.

It's also not the study the original link was talking about.

Here's the bit from the article:

FTR that study is here.

Looks like the study backs up my argument. I hope you learned something. I'd hate to see a fellow male miss out on all the fun I'm having pleasuring my women.

Quit being a feminist male, and live as Nature intended you to be. And don't worry, they will love you even more for it.

The truth is women don't want equality, they want to control men.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Freddy