kimmy Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 As a gamer, I can only go from my experience. I've seen or heard none of that. When I plsyed WoW several years ago, our guild was comprised of several females. It was never an issue. Perhaps more military themed gaming is different. I don't know. My experience with MMO is pretty limited, but for the most part it wasn't bad. I played Star Wars: The Old Republic for quite a while, and found that most of the people I met online just wanted to play the game. They talked about the quests, or shared Star Wars themed banter, and planned strategy and missions. I'd say probably 90-95% of my interaction with other players was quite positive. The exceptions were not threatening in nature, but sexual in nature. There were sometimes players who saw my attractive Sith sorceress on-screen character and wanted to "role-play" sexual situations, or ask me questions of a personal nature. It really wasn't that bad. My willingness to tolerate that sort of thing was roughly proportional to how much I needed help in the quest I was working on. There are some creepy and pathetic people in MMOs, but there are tools to block contact with them. And you can complain to the moderators if it's out of hand. I only blocked a couple of players who I just didn't want to deal with. I actually felt a little bad about blocking these guys because I wasn't angry at them, I just felt sorry for them. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Ok, here's what bugs me about the SJWs in gaming. If you're playing a game, you gotta go ten outta ten, or else why are you even playing? So for example. I'm upgrading my rig. I'm installing a quad core processor and dual graphics cards and water cooling. Ten outta ten. I'm going to the game shop. I'm buying a game. I'm walking right past World of Borecraft. I'm picking up Elf Princess 2: Zorkon's Revenge. Ten outta ten. I'm creating my character in the character creator. My elf princess is a total babe. Luscious ass. Tits like cantaloupes. Ten outta ten. I'm out in the woods. I'm killing orcs. There's hi-def blood and gore everywhere. Ten outta ten. I'm upgrading my gear. I'm taking my +1 magic wand and throwing that crap in the garbage and swapping in a +5 wand of fire. I'm throwing out my leather armor and putting on Elvish chainmail of speed. It's like ripping out an 8-track and swapping in a DVD. Ten outta ten. I get to the necromancer camp. I'm smacking the crap out of necromancers. There's heads and hands and guts flying all over the place. Ten outta ten. I find the necromancer priestess. I kick her ass. I'm ripping off her robe and mask. She's skinny. She's got this little scrunched up SJW face like Anita Sarkassian. Two outta ten, would not bang. Gaming experience ruined. Childhood ruined. Rage quit. That's why I don't want the SJWs in gaming. I'm not gaming for a two outta ten experience. You gotta go ten outta ten. #gamergate -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I'm trying to obtain informed and educated posts from Hal. But apparently my responses are not good enough for you? But I guess you "don't have time to peruse [my] posts, comprehend and respond". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 My willingness to tolerate that sort of thing was roughly proportional to how much I needed help in the quest I was working -k Good idea. If you're getting bugged, may as well make it worth your while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Exactly. There are different types of games who play different genres of games. But these SJW ideologs can't see that and want to portray this narrative that gamers = straight white misogynistic males that play games like grand theft auto. *whines about people making up fake categories to vilify their opponents* *blames "Social Justice Warriors"* LOL Except there are many instances where females are not depicted this way and also instances were males are portrayed with unrealistic body forms. But when women are not portrayed in this way, 3rd-wave-feminists complain that the portrayal is 'repressing female sexuality'. For example, Anita Sarkeesian complained that Lara Croft from Tomb Raider was a sex object, but when a later game with a version of Lara Croft came out with smaller breasts and other features, Anita Sarkeesian complained that this was sexism because now female sexuality was being repressed. And if you make an extremely generic character with basically zero sexual traits that happens to be female, it is also sexist according to Anita Sarkeesian because it is now the 'men with boobs' game-trope. Basically, there is no satisfying people like Anita Sarkeesian. Any portrayal of women is sexist because it either depicts women as 'sex objects', 'men with boobs' or is repressing female sexuality. But if games do not portray any women, then they are also sexist for not having enough female representation. Well, to be fair, Anita Sarkeesian recently admitted that there is 1 female character that she finds acceptable, meet the scythian: Lots of "she said blah blah blah" here, but not a single actual quote. You think it wouldn't be that hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) You say.... I never said that. Don't misrepresent my position. ...only to turn around write... The only way to satisfy people like Anita Sarkeesian is to pixilate all video game characters to the point where physical traits are unrecognizable.which does exactly the thing you asked others not to do. You lack credibility when you do silly things like that. Edited May 11, 2015 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 which does exactly the thing you asked others not to do. You lack credibility when you do silly things like that. I'll just say the same thing WestCoastRunner says. Go to Anita Sarkeesian's youtube channel and 'go educate yourself'. Also, give her money, lots of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I haven't experienced much if any of that when I have gamed online, and i have done a lot of it over the years, but that was with mostly organized groups, with rules, and we simply wouldn't have put up with it. But in other less organized groups I have definitely come across some really horrible people and i suppose the anonymity of online gaming allows those people to behave the way they do. Also i wouldn't be surprised if the games that are mostly designed for males to play would tend to make those males feel more 'manly', more aggressive, more tough, more strong, giving a lot of them something they don't have in real life, power. It's a chicken or egg problem i suppose, but it doesn't surprise me that this would be happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Are we talking about abuse during online gaming? Or that Gamergate trope about the role of women in video games. Or both. I don't think women can expect to be treated respectfully during an online game of battlefield just like I can't. It's a competitive hobby that allows the participants to be somewhat anonymous. What do you freaking expect? I'm sure guys are just as abused by other gamers as girls are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I'll just say the same thing WestCoastRunner says. Go to Anita Sarkeesian's youtube channel and 'go educate yourself'. Also, give her money, lots of money. Weren't you gonna blow all our minds on this GG thing like eight months ago? Still we wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Weren't you gonna blow all our minds on this GG thing like eight months ago? Still we wait. I got sidetracked. Other issues got in the way. Sorry about that. Maybe I'll find time. Edited May 11, 2015 by -1=e^ipi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 There is also active and regular abuse directed towards men and images of mutilated men's bodies. I've received death threats, rape threats, insults, etc. while playing games, far worse than what is listed by the people in the trailer. It's not a female thing, it happens to both men and women. Actually, I recall that a recent pew survey in the UK found that men are more likely to receive online abuse than women. The survey in questions shows a slight edge towards men (40% male to 37% of female internet users experience abuse). But the nature of the abuse is different. Rates for being called names or physically threatened are pretty much the same, but women are far more likely to be stalked and sexually harassed online than men. "Men were more likely overall to experience online harassment, but younger women faced more severe forms of harassment at a rate disproportionate to their peers," said Maeve Duggan, lead author of the report. What we are seeing is that a group of 3rd-wave-feminists that try to see sexism and misogyny everywhere are interpreting their online experience as being due to some misogynistic male conspiracy of misogynists that don't want females to play games, rather than it being something that both men and women experience. That's a ridiculous strawman in a series of strawmen you've created here. The issue isn't a organized conspiracy, but a culture that is hostile and unwelcoming to women. There's a difference. Though I suppose one could argue that if they did believe in such a conspiracy, the existence of GamorGraet serves to validate them in that regard. How ironic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Fine, I retract the conspiracy claim. But a lot of 3rd-wave feminists are interpreting the vast majority of online harassment as something that is due to their gender and something that males do not face; they suffer from confirmation bias, they have a pre-determined conclusion and look for 'evidence' to support that conclusion. Both males and females face online harassment, trolling, etc. Some online harassment is sexual, some is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Fine, I retract the conspiracy claim. But a lot of 3rd-wave feminists are interpreting the vast majority of online harassment as something that is due to their gender and something that males do not face; they suffer from confirmation bias, they have a pre-determined conclusion and look for 'evidence' to support that conclusion. Both males and females face online harassment, trolling, etc. Some online harassment is sexual, some is not. Sort of like saying that using a homophobic slur against someone simply as a generic pejorative is somehow attacking guys directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'll just say the same thing WestCoastRunner says. Go to Anita Sarkeesian's youtube channel and 'go educate yourself'. Also, give her money, lots of money.I don't need to educate myself. I'm familiar enough with her work to know that you're misrepresenting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Sort of like saying that using a homophobic slur against someone simply as a generic pejorative is somehow attacking guys directly.I assume you mean an attack on "gays" directly. And yes. Using homophobic slurs is an attack on gays directly. What else would it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Ok, here's what bugs me about the SJWs in gaming. If you're playing a game, you gotta go ten outta ten, or else why are you even playing? So for example. I'm upgrading my rig. I'm installing a quad core processor and dual graphics cards and water cooling. Ten outta ten. -k Me and my pals have talked about this at length. Why do so many games now get the 9+ rating when they do not deserve it? I've seen some of the 9+'s and I would only give them a 7 at best. Part of the issue are hype journalist junkets paid by developers of a certain game to get a good rating. Seems like gaming has taken the politics approach to promotion. Wine and dine, entertain and such to make them feel they have had a good time, which should result in favorable ratings. One of the only games that I can possibly think of that I have played that deserved the rating of 9+ would have been Bioshock Infinite. I was stunned with the surrealistic cloud village and how incredible it looked. I spent about 15-20 minutes simply looking around the first staging area. Not many games have had that kind of 'awe' impact. And yeah we've gone over the tropes thing, and well those who play the games men and women, tend to simply not give a damn about that, and are more concerned with what the game plays like. Which is really the point of the game. How it plays, not how the characters look. Sure in many cases it helps to have real manly buffed steroidal characters (which is a trope most men don't give two sheets about) which are unrealistic and might make feel most men inadequate, but really we don't care. I am not sure if there is the male equivalent of feminism, but if so, why don't we hear about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Me and my pals have talked about this at length. Why do so many games now get the 9+ rating when they do not deserve it? I've seen some of the 9+'s and I would only give them a 7 at best. Part of the issue are hype journalist junkets paid by developers of a certain game to get a good rating.This is definitely a problem and also completely unrelated to the violent and sexual harassment and stalking conducted against female gamers who dare to speak out about misogyny in gaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 This is definitely a problem and also completely unrelated to the violent and sexual harassment and stalking conducted against female gamers who dare to speak out about misogyny in gaming. When #gamergate first started, it was because they wanted to "get" Zoey Quinn. Here was this annoying woman who had criticized the gamer community, and when they were provided dubious evidence that she'd slept with a video game reviewer who might have promoted her game, it was their big chance to vindicate the gamer community by discrediting her. Except the reaction from outside was so overwhelmingly negative that the initial narrative was abandoned as they attempted to do damage control. "No no no, it's not about Zoey Quinn at all! We're concerned about the integrity of video game reviews!" "This is nothing personal against her, this is about gaming journalism!" The brighter minds in the gamer community pleaded with everybody to stop talking about Zoey Quinn at all and refer to her as "Literally Who?" as they tried to erase the earlier disastrous narrative and push the new "journalistic integrity" talking points. The complaints about video game reviews are a fig leaf that was hastily produced to cover up the gamer community's very tiny and unappealing dong. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 That's how I remember this whole thing kicking off, kimmy. Even so, the video game journalism is a problem. There's a paid-for-by-developers hype train that happens with major titles in order to drive pre-order and "season pass" sales, only for developers to turn around and fail to deliver a finished product on day one. As GostHacked mentioned, the mean scores have to be in the 8.5-9.0 range, which speaks to the integrity of reviewers these days. Why even use a 10 point scale if you're only going to use 2 points on it? Anyway, I agree with your assessment of the events, but I also think there's something to be said about the integrity of video game journalism today.....just not in this thread, unless it's related to how #gamergate trumped up a bunch of nonsense about Zoey Quinn. The way she was treated demonstrates precisely the difference between the way women and men are treated in the industry. Why was she treated so much worse than the guy she allegedly slept with, who as it turns out was a spiteful ex with an axe to grind? The disparity in the way they were treated is revealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Gamers... the community that invented acronyms like "DIAF" for "die in a fire", because they use it often enough in conversation that it needs to be abbreviated for efficiency. You expected them to be nice to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Gamers... the community that invented acronyms like "DIAF" for "die in a fire", because they use it often enough in conversation that it needs to be abbreviated for efficiency. You expected them to be nice to you?So just give them a pass because they always act like neanderthals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Fine, I retract the conspiracy claim. But a lot of 3rd-wave feminists are interpreting the vast majority of online harassment as something that is due to their gender and something that males do not face; they suffer from confirmation bias, they have a pre-determined conclusion and look for 'evidence' to support that conclusion. Both males and females face online harassment, trolling, etc. Some online harassment is sexual, some is not. Did you not actually read the Pew study you cited earlier? Men and women aren't treated the same online at all. Men get insulted, women get sexual comments/threats/stalked. This shouldn't even require a study it's so bleeding obvious to anyone who has spent five minutes online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Did you not actually read the Pew study you cited earlier? Men and women aren't treated the same online at all. Men get insulted, women get sexual comments/threats/stalked. This shouldn't even require a study it's so bleeding obvious to anyone who has spent five minutes online. Depending where you go online. I believe the multitude of social media sites and such are a problem that contribute to the idiocy that you speak of. I simply do not experience any of the crap that is talked about here. Between me and my friends we do trash talk each other, but it's all in good fun. Where is this happening? Console gamers? Gamers under a certain age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I assume you mean an attack on "gays" directly. And yes. Using homophobic slurs is an attack on gays directly. What else would it be? Just an attempt to be offensive to anyone. People online are jerk full stop. I don't think they spend too much time to discriminate. See how overweight people are treated online. This debate is like the whole Hate crime debate. Are assholes somehow worse if they're being assholes to an identifiable minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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