First female to pilot F-35

[Smallc]

I don't think the words are complicated - note, milestone. You can define them any way you like.

Then doesn't to follow than anyone can question someone's personal definition, and that such questioning shouldn't baffle you?

[Wilber]

Now what if you were a worker for the government and you didn't have to care about profit margins? Then what choice would you make?

Wouldn't know, never worked for the government.

Because society at that time was very patriarchal, sexist and didn't value women as much as men.

And still doesn't in some areas. This isn't about what white guys think, it's about what women think. Being patriarchal also means telling women what should be important to them. So stop being patriarchal.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Wilber

[-1=e^ipi]

And still doesn't in some areas. This isn't about what white guys think, it's about what women think.

An opinion's value doesn't somehow hold lessen if it is held by a male rather than a female. Don't be sexist.

Edited May 11, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[On Guard for Thee]

Wouldn't know, never worked for the government.

And still doesn't in some areas. This isn't about what white guys think, it's about what women think. Being patriarchal also means telling women what should be important to them. So stop being patriarchal.

Speaking of being patriarchal, we should recall it was a woman who started this thread.

Edited May 11, 2015 by On Guard for Thee

[-1=e^ipi]

Speaking of being patriarchal, we should recall it was a woman who started this thread.

The gender/sex of which is also irrelevant.

Oh wait, are we suppose to mark the creation of threads by women as 'milestones' now?

[On Guard for Thee]

The gender/sex of which is also irrelevant.

Oh wait, are we suppose to mark the creation of threads by women as 'milestones' now?

Kinda like pulling teeth. Anyway, no, but if you dig a little deeper you may find something of interest in the CONTENT of the thread, regardless of the gender of who presents them.

[Wilber]

An opinion's value doesn't somehow hold lessen if it is held by a male rather than a female. Don't be sexist.

This doesn't have anything to do with being sexist, but you haven't figured that out yet.

[cybercoma]

I disagree. The 'dictionary' definition does not accurately reflect mainstream feminism.

No True Scotsmen argument, eh?

[cybercoma]

Exactly, a perfectly simple explanation why a woman won the oscar for 'best director'. Let's diminish the rewards.

The misogyny is pretty transparent, eh? "Well of course a woman won. The Oscars are meaningless now."

[cybercoma]

Give it a rest, you're not defending women's rights. You think we should all be falling over the accomplishments of a military pilot for the simple reason that she's a woman.

Falling over? Michael Hardner put it simply as "acknowledging the accomplishment." Yet you characterize that as "falling over." Can you not see the obvious bias you're demonstrating here?

[cybercoma]

It's like to some on this forum, you're not allowed to have an opinion on things, unless it's the 'right' opinion.

You can have an opinion and guess what? Others get to have the opinion that your opinions are garbage.

[cybercoma]

Right. Like for somebody to acknowledge a milestone, they're called all sorts of crazy things, such as 'manipulated' and so on. I think people should just breathe and enjoy life a little.

That's the hilarious part about Smallc's comment. He's playing the victim card when clearly WCR is the one who has been attacked all over this thread. It's her opinion that they're trying to diminish, yet they're the ones being silenced. It's like a damn Kafka novel.

[cybercoma]

It should be noted that we always hear that gender and race doesn't matter from those who belong to the gender and race where it doesn't matter.

[-1=e^ipi]

No True Scotsmen argument, eh?

No. More like the dictionary 'definition' of feminism is Orwellian and doesn't mean what it does in practice. The same applies to words like 'progressivism' and 'social justice', they are Orwellian in nature.

[-1=e^ipi]

we always hear that gender and race doesn't matter

More accurately it shouldn't matter, not it doesn't matter. SJW certainty try to make sure it matters.

[poochy]

That's because he can't. It's all about having the 'right' opinion.

Thats exactly it, no matter what some here need to be on the 'right' side or 'good' side of any argument like this, even if it means they have to make up your argument for you so that they can attack it and then twist themselves into completely nonsense positions while doing it.

[poochy]

Wouldn't know, never worked for the government.

And still doesn't in some areas. This isn't about what white guys think, it's about what women think. Being patriarchal also means telling women what should be important to them. So stop being patriarchal.

A woman can think anything she likes about anything, but she can also be criticized when she expects us to celebrate a non accomplishment as a milestone for all women, which to me is demeaning to women. Which this particular woman did.

[Wilber]

WCR posted that Mau's accomplishment were important to her as a woman. A bunch of guys piped up that this was nonsense and their guy opinions should be more important to her. This is both patriarchal and sexist.

The freedom and feminist movements and the later changes in the legal status and public opinion toward gays had little effect on my own life but were huge to those groups. In spite of the drastic changes since those movements started, racism, patriarchy and homophobia still exist. If someone in those groups tells me the accomplishments of particular member are important to them, I'm not about to tell them they aren't, because they clearly are.

This isn't rocket science, it's merely recognizing that different things are important to different people for different reasons and respecting those differences.

[Wilber]

A woman can think anything she likes about anything, but she can also be criticized when she expects us to celebrate a non accomplishment as a milestone for all women, which to me is demeaning to women. Which this particular woman did.

When did you get to be the arbiter of what is demeaning to women? Don't they get a say in the matter?

[Michael Hardner]

It's her opinion that they're trying to diminish, yet they're the ones being silenced. It's like a damn Kafka novel.

Well, it's pretty clear to me that it's just two separate worlds and there's no reconciling the two. When a mainstream news site posts a simple acknowledgement of something being done, that hasn't been done before that to me is just normal public discourse. The responses are surprising to me, but I can't seem to get those respondents to explain their responses. (I am guessing that they think I'm laying out some kind of semantic trap, because there's asking me to define common English terms but I'm not sure.)

I think the thing is, Cyber, that objectively there is just too big a gulf here for productive dialogue to happen. Too much suspicion, too many off-board life experiences that are different for the participants of this discussion to speak the same language.

[Hal 9000]

Well, it's pretty clear to me that it's just two separate worlds and there's no reconciling the two. When a mainstream news site posts a simple acknowledgement of something being done, that hasn't been done before that to me is just normal public discourse. The responses are surprising to me, but I can't seem to get those respondents to explain their responses. (I am guessing that they think I'm laying out some kind of semantic trap, because there's asking me to define common English terms but I'm not sure.)

I think the thing is, Cyber, that objectively there is just too big a gulf here for productive dialogue to happen. Too much suspicion, too many off-board life experiences that are different for the participants of this discussion to speak the same language.

If you'd explain the "milestone" reached, then maybe more of us would see it the same way as you.

[Guest]

It's pretty simple. A woman has made a strong gain in a predominantly male area. Not only is she flying a jet, she is participating in combat. To me that's worthy of note. Which is really all the OP did. Noted it.

Edited May 11, 2015 by bcsapper

[Hal 9000]

It's pretty simple. A woman has made a strong gain in a predominantly male area. Not only is she flying a jet, she is participating in combat. To me that's worthy of note. Which is really all the OP did. Noted it.

I get it now, sorta like when a man gets a job as a nurse or school teacher.

[Michael Hardner]

If you'd explain the "milestone" reached, then maybe more of us would see it the same way as you.

"first female to pilot f35"

[Hal 9000]

"first female to pilot f35"

So, will we go through this routine with every new aircraft? I mean, at some point you're all gonna have to accept that women in flight is not new, it's just a new plane.