Bill C-51: Federal Anti-Terror Legislation polling results

jacee · February 22, 2015

I think the only thing that really frightens non-conservatives is how easily conservatives can be gathered together and herded into their pens whenever their leaders tell them to be scared of something....anything!

You think a terrorist is a Muslim with a beard, so you'll give our rulers carte blanche to put us all under surveillance, because you think you have nothing to hide, and stomp all of our civil rights into the ground.

When the convenient label - terrorist, is expanded to include pipeline and factory farm protesters, and anti-globalization protesters, you and your ilk are still cheering them on. Until one day, when even the godfearing/ flagwaving conservatives find themselves on the outs with an authoritarian leadership, and discover that the government is sifting through their records and creating a file to use at some future date, when and if necessary! And then, all of a sudden, the conservatives will be trying to protest against government overreach.....but, it will be toooooo late!

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

Martin Niemöller (18921984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me."

.....

Niemöller's ... poem ... has been printed in varying forms, referring to diverse groups such as Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Jews, Trade Unionists, or Communists depending upon the version.

Harper is a lone wolf: Devoted supporters can quickly be thrown under the bus and others silenced in fear.

.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jacee

cybercoma · February 22, 2015

It's possible, he was a Christian once so it's not like he didn't already have a demonstrated capacity for stupidity, he didn't exactly switch gods - but given the benefit of doubt and allowing for the oft-stated claim that religion doesn't necessarily denote stupidity then moral dissonance is the more likely culprit.

You can only support or prosecute an unethical war for so long before it starts blowing back in your face. It's like...physics.

This post will be illegal under the new surveillance law. As a terrorist apologist, you can be arrested for making posts like this.

GostHacked · February 22, 2015

You might want to read back through some of the posts before you include yourself in the "us" group.

The fact here is no one advocates for violence. I don't advocate for violence, if you think I do, then maybe I am not presenting my words so some can understand. But explaining why it happens is not being apologetic for it, or condoning it.

Big Guy · February 22, 2015

I think the Harper Conservatives will add a stronger oversight process to C-51 before the bill becomes law.

GostHacked · February 22, 2015

I think the Harper Conservatives will add a stronger oversight process to C-51 before the bill becomes law.

Only because of pressure to do so.

On Guard for Thee · February 22, 2015

I think the Harper Conservatives will add a stronger oversight process to C-51 before the bill becomes law.

That sounds like blind faith, they certainly arent suggesting they will do anything of the kind.

jacee · February 22, 2015

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/6681636

And it will even mean Canadians can be detained without charge -- meaning we're now on the verge of overturning an 800-year-old right that goes all the way back to the Magna Carta.

http://you.leadnow.ca/petitions/reject-fear-stop-stephen-harper-s-secret-police-bill

Last year it was found that the Committee tasked with overseeing CSIS work, the Security Intelligence Review Committee, has not only been encountering delays in receiving information -- they also suggested that the agency had seriously mislead the committee, and failed to proactively disclose highly relevant information. [4] Canada is the only Western democracy without a high-level legislative oversight body

Anybody here really trust CSIS without public/parliamentary oversight?

Bill C 51 must be amended.

.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jacee

jacee · February 22, 2015

I think the Harper Conservatives will add a stronger oversight process to C-51 before the bill becomes law.

Nope.

prime-minister-a-no-show-at-commons-anti-terror-debate

Harper categorically rejected the demands to add provisions to the bill to expand independent oversight of the expanded investigative powers C-51 gives to the RCMP, Canadas spy agency and 15 other government departments.

eyeball · February 22, 2015

That's not what Harper wants to do, I don't think.

Yeah but who knows what successive PMs will want?

eyeball · February 22, 2015

This post will be illegal under the new surveillance law. As a terrorist apologist, you can be arrested for making posts like this.

Thhhpppbbbttt...

Everyone who is offended by the self-radicalization of our government should feel honour bound to push the envelope on what's infammaTory rhetoric when it comes to speaking truth to power. I do so in honour of my grandfathers who nearly gave their lives fighting tyranny. I can only assume the grandfathers of the political parties standing in support of Canada's Police State were fighting for the other side.

Keepitsimple · February 22, 2015

Because I like my rights and I dont like a government who tries to take the away simply as a vote getter, so we once again have to go through the costly and time consuming process of having the SCC amend the bill to restore those rights.

What rights?

overthere · February 22, 2015

There's was an Alberta rogue ...

But without violence by police, protesters have been peaceful. Determined, obstructive perhaps, but not destructive or violent.

Violence comes from the police.

.

Not much about the Alberta rogue-Wiebo Ludwig- was peaceful. His actions were both destructive and violent. An entirely innocent teenage girl was murdered on his farm and nobody was charged. The crime is still unsolved, but clearly it was Ludwigs followers.

There was no police violence at all.

try again.

Smallc · February 22, 2015

Yup. Because history.

History is in the past.

Smallc · February 22, 2015

You seem uncertain.

Not at all. I actually seem like I'm being condescending, with good reason.

WIP · February 22, 2015

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

Martin Niemöller (18921984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me."

.....

Niemöller's ... poem ... has been printed in varying forms, referring to diverse groups such as Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Jews, Trade Unionists, or Communists depending upon the version.

Harper is a lone wolf: Devoted supporters can quickly be thrown under the bus and others silenced in fear.

.

Thanks for this one!

I have heard all kinds of muddled, confusing versions of this quote, and never got around to looking for the original. Martin Niemoller....so, now we know who to thank for this.

It's a shame that most don't seem to catch on to the divide-and-conquer strategy until it's too late!

On Guard for Thee · February 22, 2015

What rights?

How about free speech, assembly, peaceful protest, privacy for starters. Maybe reading (and at least trying) to understand the bill.

jacee · February 22, 2015

Not much about the Alberta rogue-Wiebo Ludwig- was peaceful. His actions were both destructive and violent. An entirely innocent teenage girl was murdered on his farm and nobody was charged. The crime is still unsolved, but clearly it was Ludwigs followers.

There was no police violence at all.

try again.

I was simply acknowledging that there was one violent criminal blasting a pipeline in Canada. He was no hero.

Other than that, only police violence against protesters.

A lot more of that to come if c51 isn't radically amended.

And I think it's likely that if peaceful protest including blockades are criminalized, there may be more sabotage.

That's always the irony of suppressing peaceful public dissent:

It increases nonpeaceful dissent.

Peaceful dissent is the safety valve of democracy.

Without that release valve, and with suspicion of rigged elections, democracy can quickly cease to exist.

.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jacee

eyeball · February 22, 2015

Anybody here really trust CSIS without public/parliamentary oversight?

Trust is just not a word I find myself associating with CSIS or Parliament under any circumstance.

The only thing that'll ever work for me is a government that is under public oversight - round the clock surveillance that's at least if not more penetrating than everything it proposes to do to us. The very phrase, surveillance state, should define a state that is under surveillance by the people not the other way around.

jacee · February 22, 2015

Trust is just not a word I find myself associating with CSIS or Parliament under any circumstance.

The only thing that'll ever work for me is a government that is under public oversight - round the clock surveillance that's at least if not more penetrating than everything it proposes to do to us. The very phrase, surveillance state, should define a state that is under surveillance by the people not the other way around.

!Like!

On Guard for Thee · February 22, 2015

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/6681636

And it will even mean Canadians can be detained without charge -- meaning we're now on the verge of overturning an 800-year-old right that goes all the way back to the Magna Carta.

http://you.leadnow.ca/petitions/reject-fear-stop-stephen-harper-s-secret-police-bill

Last year it was found that the Committee tasked with overseeing CSIS work, the Security Intelligence Review Committee, has not only been encountering delays in receiving information -- they also suggested that the agency had seriously mislead the committee, and failed to proactively disclose highly relevant information. [4] Canada is the only Western democracy without a high-level legislative oversight body

Anybody here really trust CSIS without public/parliamentary oversight?

Bill C 51 must be amended.

.

I dont, especially since SIRC has been so badly gutted and also since in the bill CSIS, for some reason. has to be reminded they are not allowed to kill or sexually assault anyone during investigations. I guess even Harper doesnt want the bad press of recreating GITMO, 7 days at a time.

Topaz · February 22, 2015

So I'm wondering if Canadians question the government, are we committing a "terrorist" act? Who knows what in that Bill and I'm sure its also aimed at unions striking.

jacee · February 22, 2015

VIDEO: Rex Murphy calls on Canada to go to war against Stephen Harper's terror bill

eyeball · February 22, 2015

So I'm wondering if Canadians question the government, are we committing a "terrorist" act?

Probably not yet per se but after a couple more governments and galvanizing events? Who knows how little it will take to trigger one's official condemnation and censure in the future?

eyeball · February 22, 2015

VIDEO: Rex Murphy calls on Canada to go to war against Stephen Harper's terror bill

Way to go Rex , I've had more than a few second thoughts about the character of the man these last few years but it's good to see he's still on the ball over the more important things.