Bill C-51: Federal Anti-Terror Legislation polling results

eyeball · February 21, 2015

Stupidity

It's possible, he was a Christian once so it's not like he didn't already have a demonstrated capacity for stupidity, he didn't exactly switch gods - but given the benefit of doubt and allowing for the oft-stated claim that religion doesn't necessarily denote stupidity then moral dissonance is the more likely culprit.

You can only support or prosecute an unethical war for so long before it starts blowing back in your face. It's like...physics.

Bob Macadoo · February 21, 2015

There's a reason in certain areas that we have rigid structures and designated functions. It simply works bette.

Those areas also have strict penalties for disobedience.....which do you think achieves results there......exemplary leaders or severe punishments?

On Guard for Thee · February 21, 2015

Try 82% - more in Quebec. Check the other thread "over-whelming support"......

Try digging into those surveys a little deeper though and you fid out about 65% of those who approve it, havent read it.

Smallc · February 21, 2015

It's possible, he was a Christian once so it's not like he didn't already have a demonstrated capacity for stupidity,

Couldn't agree more. But to leave the relative haven that is Canada for ISIS can't be explained by much else.

Smallc · February 21, 2015

Try digging into those surveys a little deeper though and you fid out about 65% of those who approve it, havent read it.

As with....every other piece of legislation. The important thing is that they approve of the general idea and concepts.

poochy · February 21, 2015

The answer is none. None of us approve of violent protest. The Black Bloc participants cannot be considered protesters.

You might want to read back through some of the posts before you include yourself in the "us" group.

poochy · February 21, 2015

Try digging into those surveys a little deeper though and you fid out about 65% of those who approve it, havent read it.

O look, in this world irrelevant, in a perfect world...but that doesn't exist.

jacee · February 21, 2015

jacee, on 21 Feb 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

Protests always stop traffic. Tens of thousands of protesters will always stop traffic.

Traffic stops traffic.

Every day.

That's not the problem.

Public protest is the problem.

Some people want to squash it.

Unh Unh

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jacee · February 21, 2015

As with....every other piece of legislation. The important thing is that they approve of the general idea and concepts.

But not with "secret" oversight.

And without criminalizing peaceful civil disobedience.

There is significant work to be done on Bill c51 yet.

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Edited February 21, 2015 by jacee

Smallc · February 21, 2015

But not with "secret" oversight.

Don't worry, they're not coming for you in the middle of the night.

Bob Macadoo · February 21, 2015

As with....every other piece of legislation. The important thing is that they approve of the general idea and concepts.

I approve of communism as a general idea and concept.....the actual details of it in action adjusts that perspective. Appropriate checks and balances against it are needed. Which leads to most socialized countries.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Bob Macadoo

jacee · February 21, 2015

Don't worry, they're not coming for you in the middle of the night.

And you know that how?

Public protest is a given in a fair society.

There will always be those who want to squash it.

Not going to happen.

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Keepitsimple · February 22, 2015

Try digging into those surveys a little deeper though and you fid out about 65% of those who approve it, havent read it.

Of course they haven't - only dweebs actually read it. They just respond like other Canadians - with common sense. They don't want this crap happening on our soil and since they don't have anything to hide - they don't care if a few changes are made to get the bad guys. Pretty simple really.

jacee · February 22, 2015

Of course they haven't - only dweebs actually read it. They just respond like other Canadians - with common sense. They don't want this crap happening on our soil and since they don't have anything to hide - they don't care if a few changes are made to get the bad guys. Pretty simple really.

Problem with that is they'll be scooping up broad swathes of Canadians who "may" do something unlawful ... not criminal acts, but they "may" ... litter ... walk on the road ... wtf ever. It gives CSIS and the RCMP such broad powers that they can pick up anybody for little reason.

And the oversight of CSIS is weak and secret.

Without the powers in Bill C51, police still rounded up over 1000 G20 protesters and local citizens. A class action suit for damages is in process as those actions were violations of Charter rights.

Under the new Bill, that becomes legal, and routine for any protest.

'Oh sorry folks. Ya we kept hundreds of you locked up for a week and interrogated you while hungry and sleep deprived ... because we thought there "may" have been a black bloc person among you who "may" ....'

I know some people want to believe this is all well intentioned to save us from the terrorists. It really does nothing to stop lone wolf attacks, but it does give sweeping powers to suppress public dissent about pipelines, fracking, clear cutting, etc. ... all wrapped up in the flag of fighting 'terrorism'

Well it isn't about fighting terrorism. It's about suppressing dissent.

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Keepitsimple · February 22, 2015

Problem with that is they'll be scooping up broad swathes of Canadians who "may" do something unlawful ... not criminal acts, but they "may" ... litter ... walk on the road ... wtf ever. It gives CSIS and the RCMP such broad powers that they can pick up anybody for little reason.

And the oversight of CSIS is weak and secret.

Without the powers in Bill C51, police still rounded up over 1000 G20 protesters and local citizens. A class action suit for damages is in process as those actions were violations of Charter rights.

Under the new Bill, that becomes legal, and routine for any protest.

'Oh sorry folks. Ya we kept hundreds of you locked up for a week and interrogated you while hungry and sleep deprived ... because we thought there "may" have been a black bloc person among you who "may" ....'

I know some people want to believe this is all well intentioned to save us from the terrorists. It really does nothing to stop lone wolf attacks, but it does give sweeping powers to suppress public dissent about pipelines, fracking, clear cutting, etc. ... all wrapped up in the flag of fighting 'terrorism'

Well it isn't about fighting terrorism. It's about suppressing dissent.

.

You're missing the point of this thread. Canadians are overwhelmingly behind the concept of a little more legislation to get the rotten apples. Arguing all day won't change that. You're entitled to your opinion - and you've stated it - but there's no need for breathless rants to try and force people to see things your way. Let it go. Move along.

Big Guy · February 22, 2015

About the same percentage of Canadians support capital punishment as support this bill.

Why is this bill going forward while capital punishment is still outlawed?

jacee · February 22, 2015

You're missing the point of this thread. Canadians are overwhelmingly behind the concept of a little more legislation to get the rotten apples. Arguing all day won't change that. You're entitled to your opinion - and you've stated it - but there's no need for breathless rants to try and force people to see things your way. Let it go. Move along.

There is no reason for you to read anything that doesn't appeal to you.

The concept has support.

The lack of public oversight does not.

Bill C51 must be amended.

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Edited February 22, 2015 by jacee

On Guard for Thee · February 22, 2015

As with....every other piece of legislation. The important thing is that they approve of the general idea and concepts.

Hopefully the people that have the power to vote actually read it. Harper is famous for hiding things in omnibus bills.

On Guard for Thee · February 22, 2015

O look, in this world irrelevant, in a perfect world...but that doesn't exist.

Whatever thats supposed to mean.

Argus · February 22, 2015

Protests always stop traffic. Tens of thousands of protesters will always stop traffic.

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Then they should stop doing that.

Argus · February 22, 2015

About the same percentage of Canadians support capital punishment as support this bill.

Why is this bill going forward while capital punishment is still outlawed?

Because Harper doesn't want the opposition and media to be able to portray him as a reactionary old conservative and inspire their followers with more talk of his 'hidden agenda'. This bill is popular among all political fault lines. That holds the opposition in check and gives the media pause.

On Guard for Thee · February 22, 2015

Of course they haven't - only dweebs actually read it. They just respond like other Canadians - with common sense. They don't want this crap happening on our soil and since they don't have anything to hide - they don't care if a few changes are made to get the bad guys. Pretty simple really.

Only a dweeb would make such a comment. Thats exactly who Harper depends on to snatch away your rights as he tries to scare people into thinking we must all hide under our beds without him to protect us whilst all he really wants is votes in PQ.

Argus · February 22, 2015

Problem with that is they'll be scooping up broad swathes of Canadians who "may" do something unlawful ... not criminal acts, but they "may" ... litter ... walk on the road ... wtf ever. It gives CSIS and the RCMP such broad powers that they can pick up anybody for little reason.

And the oversight of CSIS is weak and secret.

Without the powers in Bill C51, police still rounded up over 1000 G20 protesters and local citizens. A class action suit for damages is in process as those actions were violations of Charter rights.

Under the new Bill, that becomes legal, and routine for any protest.

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That's not going to happen, not for a peaceful, legal protest, and not even for something illegal, like blocking roads or highways. The leaders might get arrested, however, depending on just how much trouble they caused. Of course, as you point out, abuse can happen, under this law or existing law, so the thing is to come down on them if there's abuse.

jacee · February 22, 2015

Then they should stop doing that.

No:)

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Edited February 22, 2015 by jacee

jacee · February 22, 2015

Some details and analysis of Bill C51 here:

nationalpost.com/2015/02/17/

forcese-roach-on-bill-c-51

-judicial-warrants-are-designed-to-prevent-not-authorize-charter-violations

The CSIS changes are dramatic, even radical. In 1984, parliamentarians granted CSIS a very broad mandate found in the definition of threat to the security of Canada in s.2 of its Act but were careful to accord it very limited powers. It has been an intelligence service it collects and analyzes information and supplies assessments to the government.

That will change in Bill C-51.

The government proposes radically restructuring CSIS and turning it into a kinetic service taking physical action well beyond intelligence collection and competent to act beyond the law and even the constitution.

And more here

http://www.antiterrorlaw.ca/

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Edited February 22, 2015 by jacee