A Non Terrorist Terrorist Act

Big Guy · February 17, 2015

Last year there were 10 Canadians killed by lightening and thousands killed in automobile accidents. Last year there were two Canadians killed by "terrorists", or at least terrorists as defined by our government. We are now told that we are in great danger and need legislation to deal with this horrific threat.

As I have posted in another thread; "The people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. All you have to do is tell them that they are in danger of being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." - Hermann Goering

Those guys knew how to manipulate people to achieve their own agenda.

You would think that those who understand history would avoid the pitfalls of the past.

Wilber · February 17, 2015

White supremacy is an ideology.

But you have to prove the ideology motivated the crime.

jacee · February 17, 2015

But you have to prove the ideology motivated the crime.

There may be a media blackout in Canada (and the US?) but not so much across the pond.

Lindsay-Kantha-Souvannarath-s-disturbing-online-world

And this image:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/02/16/25BCD77600000578-2955615-image-a-10_1424100625640.jpg

I'm not the one who should be investigating and drawing the links. The police should.

But they've been told not to by Harper & Mackay who predetermined what crimes the police could lay charges for: Not terrorism.

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Edited February 17, 2015 by jacee

jacee · February 17, 2015

I am doing a test because it seems this thread is not popping up as it should.

Keepitsimple · February 17, 2015

We have laws for criminal acts and conspiracies.

It is perfectly apparent today that the anti-terror act is only meant to apply to certain 'cultures'.

Of course it is! Can you think of another "culture" that is spreading intolerance, violence, hate, and atrocities throughout the world in a planned, orchestrated manner - with a goal of destroying the Western world and anything else that does not bow to their twisted ideology? We're not talking about the skin-heads or Latino gangs or Militia nutbars - who can be treated as the criminals they are. Or like I said - maybe you want the proposed legislation to apply to them as well? What is it that you actually want? You talk a lot but say very little.

jacee · February 17, 2015

Of course it is! Can you think of another "culture" that is spreading intolerance, violence, hate, and atrocities throughout the world in a planned, orchestrated manner - with a goal of destroying the Western world and anything else that does not bow to their twisted ideology? We're not talking about the skin-heads or Latino gangs or Militia nutbars - who can be treated as the criminals they are. Or like I said - maybe you want the proposed legislation to apply to them as well? What is it that you actually want? You talk a lot but say very little.

Who you think those of a Neo Nazi ideology might have planned to target,

on their shooting rampage in the Halifax mall?

'Terrorists'?

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Wilber · February 17, 2015

Maybe they are and maybe the charges will be changed after further investigation. It's pretty obvious that these people had to be arrested and kept in custody now, not at the end of a lengthy investigation. The law says a person must appear in court within 24 hours of arrest or be released. The current charges will ensure they stay in custody while more evidence is collected. The media does what it does and politicians do what they do but the legal system has to work within much tighter constraints. Not everything is a Harper conspiracy.

jacee · February 17, 2015

Maybe they are and maybe the charges will be changed after further investigation. It's pretty obvious that these people had to be arrested and kept in custody now, not at the end of a lengthy investigation. The law says a person must appear in court within 24 hours of arrest or be released. The current charges will ensure they stay in custody while more evidence is collected. The media does what it does and politicians do what they do but the legal system has to work within much tighter constraints. Not everything is a Harper conspiracy.

You think Mackay independently deemed NeoNazis not terrorists?

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On Guard for Thee · February 17, 2015

And since there was no political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause it wasn't terrorism.

Happy now? No, of course you're not. Conspiracy nuts never are.

Whos concept of terrorism are you buying into now I wonder. Because they dot have dark skin they must not be terrorists. OMG.

Wilber · February 17, 2015

You think Mackay independently deemed NeoNazis not terrorists?

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No idea whether he meant to or not. You can make what you want of what he said, he isn't calling the shots when it comes to the investigation or trial.

jacee · February 17, 2015

No idea whether he meant to or not. You can make what you want of what he said, he isn't calling the shots when it comes to the investigation or trial.

Your faith is admirable.

But there isn't any investigation of whether the plan was a terrorist plan. The RCMP already said it wasn't "cultural" (sic) thus not terrorism.

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Wilber · February 17, 2015

Your faith is admirable.

But there isn't any investigation of whether the plan was a terrorist plan. The RCMP already said it wasn't "cultural" (sic) thus not terrorism.

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We don't know that. We've been here before. No need for investigations, trials and due process, jacee reads a few articles on the internet and has the answer which always seems the same. Harper has somehow managed to suborn the police, prosecution,, media and opposition all at once. The guy is a regular Putin. Edited February 17, 2015 by Wilber

jacee · February 17, 2015

http://halifax.mediacoop.ca/blog/robert-devet/33121

The Tumblr blog of James Gamble, the 19-year old found dead in Timberlea, features pictures of Adolph Hitler and marching Nazis.

You go to the Tumblr blog of Lindsay Kantha Souvannarath, the Illinois woman now in custody, and a swastika is the first thing you see.

...

None of this has made it into Nova Scotia news outlets.

...

You have to wonder whether coverage would have changed in tone had the plotters been Muslims, and had the Tumblr images been of Osama Bin Laden, or ISIS militants?

Would that have become headline material? Would MacKay still have referred to misfits? Would reporters have shrugged it off?

Or would it have become a story about terrorism?

It is clear now that terrorism is still not defined properly in the legislation. It has to be Muslim perpetrators to be terrorism.

It can't be extreme right wing white supremacists. Not the right 'culture'. :/

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/halifax-shooting-plot-what-we-know-about-the-suspects-1.2239705

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Edited February 17, 2015 by jacee

Keepitsimple · February 17, 2015

It is clear now that terrorism is still not defined properly in the legislation. It has to be Muslim perpetrators to be terrorism.

It can't be extreme right wing white supremacists. Not the right 'culture'. :/

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/halifax-shooting-plot-what-we-know-about-the-suspects-1.2239705

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So again - please be clear - what is it you want? On one hand, you are paranoid about the legislation's potential for snooping into other areas - but you now what to include skin-heads - and maybe others. What is it that you want? Like I said - you talk a lot - but say vbery little.

jacee · February 17, 2015

So again - please be clear - what is it you want? On one hand, you are paranoid about the legislation's potential for snooping into other areas - but you now what to include skin-heads - and maybe others. What is it that you want? Like I said - you talk a lot - but say vbery little.

Get rid of the racist 'anti-terror' act and call a criminal a criminal.

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GostHacked · February 17, 2015

So, how is this not terrorism?

Keepitsimple · February 17, 2015

Get rid of the racist 'anti-terror' act and call a criminal a criminal.

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I see - so no more special powers at all to combat ideology-driven terrorism. Just use the existing investigative tools and laws. You're entitled to your opinion - and it's mostly clear. Would you also repeal any of the Liberal 9/11 anti-terror legislation - or is it just this latest Conservative legislation?

jacee · February 17, 2015

I see - so no more special powers at all to combat ideology-driven terrorism. Just use the existing investigative tools and laws. You're entitled to your opinion - and it's mostly clear. Would you also repeal any of the Liberal 9/11 anti-terror legislation - or is it just this latest Conservative legislation?

The anti-terror act is carefully written to avoid looking like it targets Muslims.

However, the Halifax Neo-Nazi incident makes it clear that the Act is being used ONLY to target Muslim 'culture', not other ideologies.

It's discriminatory, and the loss of rights and additional punishments in the act should not be applied in an ethnic biased way, as appears to be the case.

Either apply the Act to all terroristic plots, or none.

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Wilber · February 17, 2015

The anti-terror act is carefully written to avoid looking like it targets Muslims.

However, the Halifax Neo-Nazi incident makes it clear that the Act is being used ONLY to target Muslim 'culture', not other ideologies.

It's discriminatory, and the loss of rights and additional punishments in the act should not be applied in an ethnic biased way, as appears to be the case.

Either apply the Act to all terroristic plots, or none.

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You don't like anything to unfold and then form an opinion, you just jump to a conclusion and run with it.

GostHacked · February 17, 2015

You don't like anything to unfold and then form an opinion, you just jump to a conclusion and run with it.

If I threatened to take out a shopping mall, how is that not terrorism?

eyeball · February 17, 2015

I see - so no more special powers at all to combat ideology-driven terrorism. Just use the existing investigative tools and laws.

It means no more mealy-mouthed ideological definitions for terrorism.

Treat it the way terrorism is usually treated. Determine the grievences that are driving the political aims of the terrorists and start dealing with them.

eyeball · February 17, 2015

If I threatened to take out a yip shopping mall, how is that not terrorism?

It depends on your motivation. A random act of mayhem by one individual right out of the blue is not the same thing as the IRA or al Queda pursuing a political agenda.

Wilber · February 17, 2015

If I threatened to take out a shopping mall, how is that not terrorism?

They were planning an act, not making a threat. According to the law, motive defines whether an act is terrorism or not. I might agree with you but that doesn't mean I can prove it in court. This is just beginning, there is a lot more to come out, questions to be asked and answered. I see no point in jumping to conclusions before they are.

Smallc · February 17, 2015

The anti-terror act is carefully written to avoid looking like it targets Muslims.

Or...or...it doesn't target muslims. By your own admission, the preponderance of the evidence is against your assertion.

Argus · February 17, 2015

White supremacy is an ideology.

There is no evidence their actions arise from that belief. There isn't even evidence two of the three had any ideological beliefs. What there is of the third suggests someone who was fixated on mass murder, torture, etc., not 'white supremacist' with any real sense of ideology.