Big Guy Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Posted February 20, 2015 The last time such legislation was used was in Oct 1970 with the war measures act. Humans being what they are, the RCMP was found to be complicit in performing illegal acts of infringing on civil liberties. There is no reason to assume that this legislation will also encourage illegal acts by law officials - that is why we need impartial political oversight. For resources google; "abuses war measures act" Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 We only have what he did and the testimony of the police and eyewitnesses. We know his targets, his religion, and his actions. We can't know if he would have acted regardless or how he would have acted under different influences. He was a lone wolf, nothing more as have been most of our terrorists, and not worth bringing in over reaching laws that wouldnt have stopped them anyway. Quote
Smallc Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 He was a lone wolf, nothing more And there was another lone wolf just a few days before, also motivated by the same religion....hmmmm Quote
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Flavour of the decade for distressed homicidal and suicidal mentally ill drug addicts. He was kicked out of the mosque for being a drug addict. You forgot the 'Muslim' part. I find the rush to excuse terrorism on the basis of alleged drug use or mental illness or 'unhappy childhood' more than slightly contemptible. The same people would utterly ignore drugs use if, say a misogynistic scumbag raped or beat women. I can also not imagine if some White Pride guy got drunk and beat the hell out of some gays or blacks the same people saying "No no, it was only because of his alcohol! Why, it had nothing to do with his often expressed hatred of gays and black people! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 The last time such legislation was used was in Oct 1970 with the war measures act. Drivel. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 He was a lone wolf, nothing more as have been most of our terrorists, and not worth bringing in over reaching laws that wouldnt have stopped them anyway. Seems to be a lot of these lone wolves. And the point of the legislation is to stop them BEFORE they kill someone, or before one succeeds in killing many people. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 You forgot the 'Muslim' part. I find the rush to excuse terrorism on the basis of alleged drug use or mental illness or 'unhappy childhood' more than slightly contemptible. The same people would utterly ignore drugs use if, say a misogynistic scumbag raped or beat women. I can also not imagine if some White Pride guy got drunk and beat the hell out of some gays or blacks the same people saying "No no, it was only because of his alcohol! Why, it had nothing to do with his often expressed hatred of gays and black people! Noone is excusing anything. Just informing you, or trying to, of the difference as to the root cause. Quote
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 These all play a role but the main thing fuelling him was the moral dissonance at the heart of the West's ongoing maltreatment towards the Muslim world. Root cause meet blow back. That's no more than a bleeding heart white liberal guilt trip. Every country in he world acts in its own interests and seeks to cut the best deal it can with trading partners, security partners, etc. If someone in some Muslim country is angry over that they should direct their anger at their own government, not at ours. And, of course you ignore the fact most of the terrorist acts of late have been conducted by people who have never even lived in a Muslim country. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Noone is excusing anything. Just informing you, or trying to, of the difference as to the root cause. Bull. If a White Pride guy attacked gays or blacks or Jews no one would say "Oh it was just cause he was on drugs!" Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Im not absolving anybody of anything. The proof that this guy did what he did because of Islam has in no way been proven. It has been proven to the satisfaction of the police and government and 98% of the electorate. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 If you are mentally ill you will find a way to express your neurosis. ISIS or not. There is no evidence he was mentally ill. The only time he was examined by a psychiatrist he was found quite sane. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Seems to be a lot of these lone wolves. And the point of the legislation is to stop them BEFORE they kill someone, or before one succeeds in killing many people. That legislation already exists. The proposed legislation has the potential for more harm than good, but it could well get Harper more votes in Quebec which is probably the real point. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 It has been proven to the satisfaction of the police and government and 98% of the electorate. Another wild assumption. Quote
Smallc Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Another wild assumption. There is no evidence he was mentally ill. The only time he was examined by a psychiatrist he was found quite sane. Is that also a wild assumption? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 It has been proven to the satisfaction of the police and government and 98% of the electorate. Here are some actual numbers from an actual poll. Far cry from 98% Im afraid. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/24/only-36-of-canadians-would-call-ottawa-shooting-a-terrorist-attack-while-38-blame-mental-illness-survey-finds/ Quote
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Here are some actual numbers from an actual poll. Far cry from 98% Im afraid. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/24/only-36-of-canadians-would-call-ottawa-shooting-a-terrorist-attack-while-38-blame-mental-illness-survey-finds/ Surprising, though perhaps it shouldn't be given the shoddy quality of he media in Canada. But if you asked them "What mental illness did the two of them have" you'd draw a big blank. The only person who has ever talked about mental illness was Michael Zehaf-Bibeau mother. Yet at no time did she suggest she ever attempted to get him psychiatric help or assistance. He was a crack addict. That seems certain. But there are a lot of crack addicts, and none of then try to shoot up parliament. I don't recall anyone suggesting Martin Couture-Rouleau was mentally ill. Nor have I seen any evidence he used drugs. But so many liberals are so determined to pretend Islam had nothing to do with this, and of course, the media is mostly liberal, so people have bought a shallow excuse without looking further. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Is that also a wild assumption? Three weeks later, he went to a Burnaby RCMP detachment to confess to the robbery a second time. Police detained him under the Mental Health Act but he was later discharged when a doctor determined he wasn’t suffering from a mental illness. http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/michael-zehaf-bibeau-journey-to-death-on-parliament-hill Edited February 20, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Surprising, though perhaps it shouldn't be given the shoddy quality of he media in Canada. But if you asked them "What mental illness did the two of them have" you'd draw a big blank. The only person who has ever talked about mental illness was Michael Zehaf-Bibeau mother. Yet at no time did she suggest she ever attempted to get him psychiatric help or assistance. He was a crack addict. That seems certain. But there are a lot of crack addicts, and none of then try to shoot up parliament. I don't recall anyone suggesting Martin Couture-Rouleau was mentally ill. Nor have I seen any evidence he used drugs. But so many liberals are so determined to pretend Islam had nothing to do with this, and of course, the media is mostly liberal, so people have bought a shallow excuse without looking further. Many of the people who ran various shelters where he stayed in various parts of the country spoke also of his strange behaviours they suspected to be mental illness. And Ill try this again, no one is excusing his actions. Making the assumption that its all about ME boogeymen will simply tend to ignore the actual causes. Quote
Argus Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Many of the people who ran various shelters where he stayed in various parts of the country spoke also of his strange behaviours they suspected to be mental illness. And Ill try this again, no one is excusing his actions. Making the assumption that its all about ME boogeymen will simply tend to ignore the actual causes. Just how many homeless crack addicts do you think don't behave strangely? I notice you ignored the other guy, btw. Crack certainly played a part in ruining his life, as it does for everyone who uses it. But it wasn't crack that had him specifically shooting a soldier or attacking parliament. That was his fundamentalist Islam. I think when your life is crap, and you believe that dying in this sort of cause will send you to heaven and give you all those virgins to play with, well, it can be a powerful motivator for ignorant people. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Just how many homeless crack addicts do you think don't behave strangely? I notice you ignored the other guy, btw. Crack certainly played a part in ruining his life, as it does for everyone who uses it. But it wasn't crack that had him specifically shooting a soldier or attacking parliament. That was his fundamentalist Islam. I think when your life is crap, and you believe that dying in this sort of cause will send you to heaven and give you all those virgins to play with, well, it can be a powerful motivator for ignorant people. Again, only your assumption and opinion. In at least one of his recent shelters he stayed in he ranted at length about how angry he was at Canada, blaming it for his sorry lot in life. Now if you are drugged out and with mental issues and hate the country, what better way to attack it then at the heart of its government. You dont need Islam to come to that conclusion. Quote
Smallc Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Three weeks later, he went to a Burnaby RCMP detachment to confess to the robbery a second time. Police detained him under the Mental Health Act but he was later discharged when a doctor determined he wasn’t suffering from a mental illness. http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/michael-zehaf-bibeau-journey-to-death-on-parliament-hill I know. The post wasn't aimed at you. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 Three weeks later, he went to a Burnaby RCMP detachment to confess to the robbery a second time. Police detained him under the Mental Health Act but he was later discharged when a doctor determined he wasn’t suffering from a mental illness. http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/michael-zehaf-bibeau-journey-to-death-on-parliament-hill I think your article backfired as it sees to suggest more about his mental illness than it does to assuage it. I dont get the impression this jail house doctor did any sort of in depth investigation into mental state. And when you try to get arrested by confessing to a phony crime, and then when that doesnt work you go and try to rob Mcds with a stick and then wait for the cops to show up, that says quite a bit about the soundness of his mind. Quote
Scotty Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) I think your article backfired as it sees to suggest more about his mental illness than it does to assuage it. I dont get the impression this jail house doctor did any sort of in depth investigation into mental state. And when you try to get arrested by confessing to a phony crime, and then when that doesnt work you go and try to rob Mcds with a stick and then wait for the cops to show up, that says quite a bit about the soundness of his mind. I thought it made him seem quite sound. He wanted to do something to get off crack, so he tried to get arrested. When he was confronted with the failure of his first gambit, he explored other options to get what he wanted, and succeeded in being arrested. This does not show insanity. in fact, the definition of sanity in the legal world is knowing what you are doing is wrong. Since he knew he would get arrested for doing it that showed he was legally sane. It's sad that a human being is in such a downward spiral that he thinks going to jail will give him some peace, but no one forced him to take crack. On the other hand, another doctor suggested he might perhaps be suffering from some kind of mood disorder, but he wouldn't be treated and was never officlaly diagnosed. I feel safe in calling him a very troubled young man. But the essence of the problem with 'lone wolves' is they are almost all troubled young people. In fact, you generally don't search for a new religion to convert to, nor do you spend your time looking at jihad sites on the internet if you aren't a troubled person, at least in my opinion. There are, unfortunately, many troubled young people out there. The entire notion of 'violent jihad' put out there by extremist groups is almost a trap for the troubled, much like the cults of decades past. You cannot say that his motives were not religious, for they clearly were. He believed in the religion, as he had learned it, and was trying to accomplish something on its behalf, or on his own behalf, when he killed the soldier. The troubled background was certainly a factor, but he wouldn't have done it without the religion he was drawn to. Nor can you say the religion was twisted from 'proper' Islam for there are many different interpretations of Islam out there just as there are many different interpretations of Christianity and Judaism. When he shot the soldier, though, and went up on parliament hill, however troubled he might or might not have been, he was motivated by religion, by Jihad. Edited February 20, 2015 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
On Guard for Thee Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 There are better ways of seeking detox than with a sharpened stick and a faux robbery. If he was so badly twisted by his drug use that he couldnt make any better decisions than that, then that in itself could be described as a form of mental illness. He had reportedly sought some form of shelter in a mosque but he got himself booted out of there for his strange behaviour. He may have had some idea of some sort of connection to Islam in his addled brain, but I suspect his fuse was lit long ago and by a lot of other things. Quote
WWWTT Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 As I said, a bit tinfoil hat given the circumstances. Tin foil hat? So what do you call this? http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/child-porn-policing-program-suffers-from-rcmp-underspending-1.2963885?cmp=fbtl&utm_content=buffer9df79&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer Sounds like that when someone "criticizes" your beloved "never lying" "morally sound" do gooders, out come the attacks on someones beliefs! Looks like there's lots of evidence out there that the RCMP are more than willing to kiss Harper's ass before they consider YOUR safety! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
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