jacee Posted February 8, 2015 Report Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Of course that's true. As has been pointed out, McGuinty made that possible. The lesson to be learned, I think, is that we're not 100% free. But what does it mean with regards to these proposals ? Nor do I. But I think we have seen that they can do that any time they want. I also think they will use such legislation to do more of it. And to investigate and prevent terrorism too. Now what ? Now we are criminals for criticizing the state and corporations.anti-terrorism-bill-will-unleash-csis-on-a-lot-more-than-terrorists interference with the capability of the Government in relation to ... the economic or financial stability of Canada. What if you don't agree with the government's economic OIL focus? Pipeline opponents are now terrorists. . Edited February 9, 2015 by jacee Quote
drummindiver Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Now we are criminals for criticizing the state and corporations. anti-terrorism-bill-will-unleash-sics-on-a-lot-more-than-terrorists interference with the capability of the Government in relation to ... the economic or financial stability of Canada. What if you don't agree with the government's economic OIL focus? Pipeline opponents are now terrorists. . Ridiculous!!! In Ontario we already have warrant less entry. Thanks to the Libs. You don`t believe these federal agents should be afforded police like status to apprehend criminals. Of course you don`t. Ppl who oppose pipelines are not terrorist. Ppl who blow up pipelines are terrorists. Edited February 9, 2015 by drummindiver Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 What if you don't agree with the government's economic OIL focus? Of course it's possible. I just don't think it will happen. Nor do I think it's possible anymore to "strike a balance". Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Ridiculous!!! In Ontario we already have warrant less entry. Thanks to the Libs. You don`t believe these federal agents should be afforded police like status to apprehend criminals. Of course you don`t. Ppl who oppose pipelines are not terrorist. Ppl who blow up pipelines are terrorists. Just wait until Justin Trudeau or some real lefty gets their hands on powers like these.Will you be as thankful for Harper? Edited February 9, 2015 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
jacee Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 Ridiculous!!! In Ontario we already have warrant less entry. Thanks to the Libs. You don`t believe these federal agents should be afforded police like status to apprehend criminals. Of course you don`t. Ppl who oppose pipelines are not terrorist. Ppl who blow up pipelines are terrorists. Ppl who oppose pipelines can be arrested because they "may" commit a terrorist act. . Quote
jacee Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 Of course it's possible. I just don't think it will happen.It already did happen - over 1000 people arrested 'just in case' one of them "may" commit an illegal act.. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 It already did happen - over 1000 people arrested 'just in case' one of them "may" commit an illegal act. . Once again - it would be helpful if you could provide a link for us. Quote Back to Basics
jacee Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 Once again - it would be helpful if you could provide a link for us. /court-approves-two-g20-class-action-lawsuits-alleging-mistreatment-by-toronto-police-during-2010-summit/ Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 It already did happen - over 1000 people arrested 'just in case' one of them "may" commit an illegal act. . Still, it's not the same as fascism. And once again, McGuinty made it happen in pretty short order. So why even talk about this new proposed bill if it's just about them getting away with as much as they can ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 Still, it's not the same as fascism. And once again, McGuinty made it happen in pretty short order. So why even talk about this new proposed bill if it's just about them getting away with as much as they can ? You can't exaclty call it a democracy either. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 You can't exaclty call it a democracy either. Western capitalized mass-media driven wealth pile ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
jacee Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Still, it's not the same as fascism. "Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini And once again, McGuinty made it happen in pretty short order. So why even talk about this new proposed bill if it's just about them getting away with as much as they can ?Because it legitimizes what was previously (eg, G20) illegal search, seizure, arrest and detention.. Edited February 9, 2015 by jacee Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 Because it legitimizes what was previously (eg, G20) illegal search, seizure, arrest and detention. I don't think that WAS illegal. They passed a law, right ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
jacee Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I don't think that WAS illegal. They passed a law, right ? Yes it was illegal.That temporary law was only applicable inside the fence, but the police applied it all over the city, even after clarification by the Chief: http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/toronto-s-top-cop-admits-to-g20-communications-failure-1.583502 That regulation, quietly passed by the provincial government, was interpreted as allowing people to stop, question and search people inside the G20 summit site's security fence -- and those within five metres of the perimeter's outside. That fence ringed an area surrounding the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. About five hours after the [Friday] news conference, Blair said he received a different interpretation from his legal team. According to this interpretation, the regulation only applied inside the security perimeter, he said. We'll see what the results of the class action suit are. None of those arrested and jailed were inside the fence, and few if any were even within 5 metres. . . Edited February 9, 2015 by jacee Quote
Argus Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) del Edited February 9, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 Yes it was illegal. Ok, well I see the point of doing that. But I feel like the characterization of "it legitimizes what was illegal" is a more level and accurate assessment than "fascism is coming"... Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
jacee Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Ok, well I see the point of doing that. But I feel like the characterization of "it legitimizes what was illegal" is a more level and accurate assessment than "fascism is coming"...You brought up fascism.How about 'suppressing dissent against corporate control of society' ? If the shoe fits ... . Edited February 9, 2015 by jacee Quote
drummindiver Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 It already did happen - over 1000 people arrested 'just in case' one of them "may" commit an illegal act. . Many did commit illegal acts-many of them. People using Blac Block tactics ARE terrorists. http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=4858 http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/g20/2010/06/26/violent_black_bloc_tactics_on_display_at_g20_protest.html Quote
guyser Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Many did commit illegal acts-many of them. People using Blac Block tactics ARE terrorists. Are those the Police that stood around and did nothing, then got embarassed and made up for it by rounding up families having a picnic (Queens Park) and the ones peacefully protesting downtown, and corralled and beat some of them? Edited February 9, 2015 by Guyser2 Quote
jacee Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Many did commit illegal acts-many of them. People using Blac Block tactics ARE terrorists. http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=4858 http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/g20/2010/06/26/violent_black_bloc_tactics_on_display_at_g20_protest.html Don't terrorists kill people?Breaking windows isn't quite in the "terrorist" league. :/ The thousand+ incarcerated or kettled illegally were not charged with any offences, and there weren't even any black bloc actions on the sunday. Just a bunch of humiliated blue bloc cops having childish temper tantrums. . Edited February 9, 2015 by jacee Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 You brought up fascism. Yes, because this quote of yours sounded much like impending fascism: We can trust that Harper will target all protest and police/CSIS will gleefully arrest dissenters. . Instead, what it seems is that they can do whatever they want up to some limit of what people will put up with. How about 'suppressing dissent against corporate control of society' ? I think they just want control, for security reasons and because they just want it also. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Posted February 9, 2015 I think they just want control, for security reasons and because they just want it also. Isn't saying they get more control, presumably they being the party in control of power at the moment, really only half the story here? I think it forgets that the state also gets whatever the politicians du jour put in place for themselves making it accessible to successive governments which add more power in turn and so on. It feels like a bad experiment going awry and I think its anyone's guess how many times it takes to repeat the process before it gets out of everyone's control. I think that the legal system is just breaking down.... The lawmaking side of the system certainly is...thank the stars for the SCC so far is all I can say. It really does seem to be the only thing capable of standing in the face of incremental authoritarianism at the moment. Even countries aren't above playing this game of trying to look tougher to goad partners into adopting tougher measures in the GWOT. The similarity between a panicked rush for an exit and a fearful dash for an entrance is the people screaming run for your lives. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
jacee Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 Isn't saying they get more control, presumably they being the party in control of power at the moment, really only half the story here? I think it forgets that the state also gets whatever the politicians du jour put in place for themselves making it accessible to successive governments which add more power in turn and so on. It feels like a bad experiment going awry and I think its anyone's guess how many times it takes to repeat the process before it gets out of everyone's control. The lawmaking side of the system certainly is...thank the stars for the SCC so far is all I can say. It really does seem to be the only thing capable of standing in the face of incremental authoritarianism at the moment. Even countries aren't above playing this game of trying to look tougher to goad partners into adopting tougher measures in the GWOT. .Harper definitely wants to look tougher than Obama and he's adopting Bush's approach on torture in the bill too. The similarity between a panicked rush for an exit and a fearful dash for an entrance is the people screaming run for your lives.... to the closet. Quote
GostHacked Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 Many did commit illegal acts-many of them. People using Blac Block tactics ARE terrorists. http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=4858 http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/g20/2010/06/26/violent_black_bloc_tactics_on_display_at_g20_protest.html And some of these Black Bloc types could be cops inciting violence. I will use Montebello again as an example. Quote
drummindiver Posted February 11, 2015 Report Posted February 11, 2015 Don't terrorists kill people? Breaking windows isn't quite in the "terrorist" league. :/ The thousand+ incarcerated or kettled illegally were not charged with any offences, and there weren't even any black bloc actions on the sunday. Just a bunch of humiliated blue bloc cops having childish temper tantrums. . Nope. These ppl are terrorists. Murder is not the only criteria for terrorism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A1wTE3OzTE I'm all for lawful assembly and voicing dissent. This, though, is not that. Quote
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