dre Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Saying they're needed for what is essentially an illegal operation is a pretty weak argument. So what? It IS the argument. Allowing undocumented workers is just another component of massive US agricultural subsidy. People might wine about it, but they dont want to pay more for stuff either. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Bonam Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 American businesses WANT lower wages That is true. But why the "anti-business" pro-worker crowd also wants lower wages is a bit harder to understand. Quote
Shady Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 If America really wanted it enforced, it probably would be. Nope. E-verify is overwhelmingly accepted. The one's standing in the way are the president and his party. Quote
Shady Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 American businesses WANT lower wages, and they have successfully lobbied to prevent reform. Why are Democrats and Obama agasint e-verifty then? Why are Republicans for it? It would prevent illegals from obtaining jobs in America, and thus, depressing wages, and also not allow businesses to pay less. Why? Why is Obama and Democrats against that? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Again, cart before the horse. Do you think it was Obama and the dems who initially wooed all those illegals in? What Obama wants to do is just get them to get on the record and pay taxes. Quote
Smallc Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) An illegal operation? I don't follow? If you can only do business by hiring illegals at an illegal wage... Edited January 30, 2015 by Smallc Quote
Smallc Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 So what? It IS the argument. And it's still illegal. In other words, that's what. Quote
guyser Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 What Obama wants to do is just get them to get on the record and pay taxes. For the most part, taxes are paid, deducted at source. Its a boon for shady employers who dont submit those up the chain, and a boon for the State and Feds since they do not have to pay out the bennies. Win Win....'cept for the avg guy . Quote
dre Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 That is true. But why the "anti-business" pro-worker crowd also wants lower wages is a bit harder to understand. They want cheap food. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 And it's still illegal. In other words, that's what. Yeah but if they legalize them business will have to pay them minimum wage and treat them with dignity and respect! Kinda takes all the fun out of it! Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Bonam Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 They want cheap food. Possible, but I don't see any of them making that argument. Quote
dre Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Luckily there is one man with the courage to tackle this problem! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3n_FX-CgrE ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited January 30, 2015 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Shady Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Again, cart before the horse. Do you think it was Obama and the dems who initially wooed all those illegals in? What Obama wants to do is just get them to get on the record and pay taxes. So are you for e-verify? Why aren't democrats and Obama? Quote
Shady Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Yeah but if they legalize them business will have to pay them minimum wage and treat them with dignity and respect! Kinda takes all the fun out of it! You wanna treat somebody that breaks the law and cuts in line with respect? What about respect for the rule of law? What about respect for the middle class wage earner? Quote
guyser Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 You wanna treat somebody that breaks the law and cuts in line with respect? What about respect for the rule of law? What about respect for the middle class wage earner? Theres that English comprehension thing again..... The quote even stated it....."if they legalize them business will have to pay them minimum wage and treat them with dignity and respect" Quote
Shady Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 Theres that English comprehension thing again..... The quote even stated it....."if they legalize them business will have to pay them minimum wage and treat them with dignity and respect" You're not making any sense at all. So people that break the law should be legalized? Why? So a business will pay them minimum wage? What about the illegals that come over for those same jobs a month later? And then 3 months later? And then 6 months later? And then a year later? Etc, etc. You suggest they just keep legalizing people? As many people that break immigration law each year just get legalized? What kind of system is that? And how does flooding the labour force combat stagnant and depressed wages? Is having more and more people competing for a smaller amount of jobs your answer? How exactly does that work? And how about us? If we start getting illegals from South America, or China flowing into Canada on a regular basis, what's your answer? Just keep legalizing them? Cause it's our fault that they're coming here right? You're just not making any sense what so ever. Quote
guyser Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 You're not making any sense at all.Qu'elle surprise ! All of this below is nothing to do with what I posted, so not sure what to make of it. It has to do with comprehension. Dre said IF they LEGALIZE them ....then treat them w respect. You responded that illegals should get respect. Hopefully you see how you turned the words of dre into something not said. Got it ? As for this rant..... So people that break the law should be legalized? Why? So a business will pay them minimum wage? What about the illegals that come over for those same jobs a month later? And then 3 months later? And then 6 months later? And then a year later? Etc, etc. You suggest they just keep legalizing people? As many people that break immigration law each year just get legalized? What kind of system is that? And how does flooding the labour force combat stagnant and depressed wages? Is having more and more people competing for a smaller amount of jobs your answer? How exactly does that work? And how about us? If we start getting illegals from South America, or China flowing into Canada on a regular basis, what's your answer? Just keep legalizing them? Cause it's our fault that they're coming here right? You're just not making any sense what so ever. ....hey, youre a Reagan lover and he did it....for 3 Million of them. But Obama......oh the horror of it all. Have a great weekend. Quote
dre Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Why are Democrats and Obama agasint e-verifty then? Why are Republicans for it? It would prevent illegals from obtaining jobs in America, and thus, depressing wages, and also not allow businesses to pay less. Why? Why is Obama and Democrats against that? E-verify wont fix the problem... employers that dont want to use it, just wont use it. A federal mandate would make it ILLEGAL for them to not use it, but what they are doing is ALREADY illegal and they dont care. And what makes you think that an E-Verify mandate would be enforced, when all the current laws are not? This is all just political games. Like the congress voting to build a border fence, and then not voting to fund its construction. So far the only plan Iv seen that would work is the George Bush plan! Make life soooooo shitty for American workers, and drive the unemployment rate into double digits, so that Mexicans are better off staying in Mexico! Put republicans back in charge, and before long white folks from LA and Texas will be sneaking into Mexico to harvest beans for one dollar an hour! Edited January 31, 2015 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 Possible, but I don't see any of them making that argument. I dont know, I dont follow it all close enough. But at the end of the day the intentional failure to enforce immigration law is really just another agricultural subsidy. Its not happening because Americans care about the plight of these immigrants its happening because farmers and the chamber of commerce lobby against enforcement and its happening because the government is trying to keep the prices of food as low as they can in order to hide the decline in purchasing power of the dollar and pretend theres no inflation. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
kimmy Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 They're jobs "nobody wants " because illegals depress wages. Not just of the jobs they work, but all jobs. More labour chasing few jobs means lower wages. People that support illegal immigration also complain about stagnant wages, when they're part of the problem. We're in agreement for a change. We hear the same "nobody wants these jobs" arguments from the Canadian Restaurant Association types as justification for bringing in TFWs. "We can't get employees!" should always come with an asterisk attached, that says: " * at the wages we want to pay." Employers, be they farms or restaurants or who knows what else, are supposed to raise wages and improve working conditions if they can't find employees. Appealing to a busted TFW program or relying on porous border security to provide their cheap labor is an attack on the value of work. There are enough forces driving the value of labor downwards in today's society already, without deliberately contributing to the problem. I bet a lot of people who were outraged when they heard Canadian workers were being fired to make room for TFWs are now wringing their hands in support of undocumented workers in the US. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
dre Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) We're in agreement for a change. We hear the same "nobody wants these jobs" arguments from the Canadian Restaurant Association types as justification for bringing in TFWs. "We can't get employees!" should always come with an asterisk attached, that says: " * at the wages we want to pay." Employers, be they farms or restaurants or who knows what else, are supposed to raise wages and improve working conditions if they can't find employees. Appealing to a busted TFW program or relying on porous border security to provide their cheap labor is an attack on the value of work. There are enough forces driving the value of labor downwards in today's society already, without deliberately contributing to the problem. I bet a lot of people who were outraged when they heard Canadian workers were being fired to make room for TFWs are now wringing their hands in support of undocumented workers in the US. -k Thats fine, but the only difference between importing cheap labor, and importing goods made with cheap labor is which sector is under attack. Portability of goods and portability of labor are conceptually the exact same thing. The only difference here is that its the services sector thats under attack, and the reality is that folks working in the services sector were MIGHTY QUIET while the introduction of dirt cheap labor was destroying millions of good jobs in the manufacturing sector. This is not a reference to you at all Kimmy... But theres a certain irony in the fact people who blab on about "free trade" and the "free market" are suddenly up in arms about policies that make labor more portable. Nobody gave a rats ass when it was other peoples jobs on the line. Borders are pesky little things that obstruct corporate profits, and corporations these days have a disproportionate ammount of political power. Guest worker programs are just beginning, I assure you. Welcome to the global economy. By the way, its good to see you posting! Ive missed you around here! Edited January 31, 2015 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 The only difference here is that its the services sector thats under attack, and the reality is that folks working in the services sector were MIGHTY QUIET while the introduction of dirt cheap labor was destroying millions of good jobs in the manufacturing sector. You seem to put the onus on Canadian workers to organize themselves and respond when Canadian jobs in other sectors on threatened. I don't think that's realistic at all. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 You seem to put the onus on Canadian workers to organize themselves and respond when Canadian jobs in other sectors on threatened. I don't think that's realistic at all. Quite to the contrary, Canadian call center workers were more than happy to take advantage of outsourced American jobs. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 Quite to the contrary, How to the contrary ? Was he NOT doing that ? You're just trying to start a different conversation - one that I don't want to have. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 Nope. E-verify is overwhelmingly accepted. The one's standing in the way are the president and his party. What is this E-Verify you speak of? Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.