WestCoastRunner Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Since Shady doesn't have the balls to start a real thread on illegal workers in the U.S. I will start one here. California’s $43.5 billion-a-year farm industry depends on a shadow workforce of undocumented Mexican immigrants that’s eroding under economic improvements back home and tighter U.S. border controls. “These are jobs nobody else wants,” Salinas Mayor Joe Gunter, 66, said in an interview in his city hall office. “If you extract these folks that are undocumented, the industry would be devastated.” At stake for California, the largest agricultural-producing state, is a steady, trained workforce and production planning for farmers who supply the nation with almost half of U.S.-grown fruits, nuts and vegetables. For immigrants, it’s a higher standard of living, government-issued identification for bank accounts and driver’s licenses, and the power to report crimes such as robbery, car theft and sexual assaults without fear of deportation. We really need to move beyond these racial epithets that are thrown out against these workers who are simply doing the work that Americans don't want to do. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-08-14/california-s-43-billion-farms-see-labor-in-immigrant-fix Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Is this just a personal attack against another member or a serious topic ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WestCoastRunner Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Posted January 30, 2015 Is this just a personal attack against another member or a serious topic ? Why would you think this is a personal attack? Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Bonam Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Since Shady doesn't have the balls to start a real thread on illegal workers in the U.S. I will start one here. California’s $43.5 billion-a-year farm industry depends on a shadow workforce of undocumented Mexican immigrants that’s eroding under economic improvements back home and tighter U.S. border controls. “These are jobs nobody else wants,” Salinas Mayor Joe Gunter, 66, said in an interview in his city hall office. “If you extract these folks that are undocumented, the industry would be devastated.” I keep hearing the statement "these are jobs nobody wants". Why is that? Low pay? Crappy working conditions? What would happen if there were no undocumented workers willing to work for low pay in crappy conditions? Would farmers just stop farming and people stop eating? Somehow, I doubt it. No, they'd have to raise pay and improve working conditions until there were enough people that wanted those jobs taking them. That's how free markets are supposed to work for employees/laborers rather than against them. Or maybe the farm operators would have to invest in automation, deciding that human employees are too expensive. In which case they stimulate the tech economy, employing other people in high skill jobs, and in the long run end up with more efficient and productive farms using the latest technology. When people say "without cheap illegal labor our business would be devastated" what they really mean is that they are too lazy to think outside the box, uncompetitive with other businesses doing the same thing, or simply afraid of change. Reality is it would be better for all low skill workers if these kinds of jobs existed, were available to Americans, and paid better than they do now. That being said, I have absolutely nothing against hard-working Mexican immigrants and believe the US should provide a legal, documented, method for these people to immigrate and contribute. I just don't buy the argument that without the current situation that the US agriculture industry would collapse. Edited January 30, 2015 by Bonam Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Posted January 30, 2015 That being said, I have absolutely nothing against hard-working Mexican immigrants and believe the US should provide a legal, documented, method for these people to immigrate and contribute. I just don't buy the argument that without the current situation that the US agriculture industry would collapse. If you don't buy it then you haven't done enough research. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Why would you think this is a personal attack? Oh...maybe this..... Since Shady doesn't have the balls to start a real thread Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bonam Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) If you don't buy it then you haven't done enough research. Oh really? Perhaps the "research" on this subject is just unconvincing? Just because some farm owner or some economist says something, doesn't mean it's absolute truth. Farming is no different than any other industry. If there's a labor shortage, then the price of labor can and should rise until things balance out. It's not my problem that paying more than minimum wage (or some even lower illegal wage) is such a repelling concept to farm operators. If you think agriculture is somehow special and unlike all other industries has to operate at artificially depressed wages in order to be viable, I'd like some "links" showing that. I await enlightenment on the topic of how if food prices increase a few % people will stop eating and the farmers will all go out of business. Edited January 30, 2015 by Bonam Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 ...That being said, I have absolutely nothing against hard-working Mexican immigrants and believe the US should provide a legal, documented, method for these people to immigrate and contribute. I just don't buy the argument that without the current situation that the US agriculture industry would collapse. Agreed.....undocumented (illegal) workers are subject to the laws of the United States, regardless of the impact to fresh lettuce in the U.S. (and Canada). Deport them..... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WestCoastRunner Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Posted January 30, 2015 Agreed.....undocumented (illegal) workers are subject to the laws of the United States, regardless of the impact to fresh lettuce in the U.S. (and Canada). Deport them..... Absolutely,let's deport them! Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Absolutely,let's deport them! "Let's...." ???? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Saying they're needed for what is essentially an illegal operation is a pretty weak argument. Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Posted January 30, 2015 Oh...maybe this..... Since Shady doesn't have the balls to start a real thread Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
WestCoastRunner Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Posted January 30, 2015 Does shady need you? Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
WestCoastRunner Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Posted January 30, 2015 Saying they're needed for what is essentially an illegal operation is a pretty weak argument. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
WestCoastRunner Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Posted January 30, 2015 An illegal operation? I don't follow? Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Illegal immigrants are subject to the laws of the host nation, regardless of employment status. Millions of illegal immigrants have been returned and formally deported. This should not change just for lettuce or strawberries. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
guyser Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Does shady need you?Yogi always protects Boo Boo. Quote
Shady Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 They're jobs "nobody wants " because illegals depress wages. Not just of the jobs they work, but all jobs. More labour chasing few jobs means lower wages. People that support illegal immigration also complain about stagnant wages, when they're part of the problem. Quote
Shady Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Is this just a personal attack against another member or a serious topic ? Yes I noticed the personal insult as well. It's been reported. If I can't get away with doing that, than others shouldn't either. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 They're jobs "nobody wants " because illegals depress wages. Not just of the jobs they work, but all jobs. More labour chasing few jobs means lower wages. People that support illegal immigration also complain about stagnant wages, when they're part of the problem. I think you may have the cart before the horse. I think the illegals jumped the border into the welcoming arms of Americans who wanted that cheap labor. Quote
Shady Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 I think you may have the cart before the horse. I think the illegals jumped the border into the welcoming arms of Americans who wanted that cheap labor. Than inforce immigration law and don't allow them to work and live somewhere illegally. Are you an advocate of e-verify then? Why isn't the president? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 Than inforce immigration law and don't allow them to work and live somewhere illegally. Are you an advocate of e-verify then? Why isn't the president? If America really wanted it enforced, it probably would be. Quote
dre Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 That being said, I have absolutely nothing against hard-working Mexican immigrants and believe the US should provide a legal, documented, method for these people to immigrate and contribute. I just don't buy the argument that without the current situation that the US agriculture industry would collapse. Agriculture in the US is already subsidized to the tune of about 25%. They allow undocumented workers to keep the price of food low, and because farmers, the chamber of commerce, etc lobby for it. And legalizing It would make sense to legislate a solution but the US has no real effective legislative branch. There IS a congress, senate etc, but nobody there actually does any work. I dont even think they show up anymore. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 It's been reported. Mommy!!!! Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted January 30, 2015 Report Posted January 30, 2015 They're jobs "nobody wants " because illegals depress wages. Not just of the jobs they work, but all jobs. More labour chasing few jobs means lower wages. People that support illegal immigration also complain about stagnant wages, when they're part of the problem. American businesses WANT lower wages, and they have successfully lobbied to prevent reform. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
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