The Day The Snow Ate New York

[Big Guy]

There is a blizzard approaching the East Coast of the USA. I will not post a cite because it is all over all the news. It is 8 p.m. on Monday in Ontario and I have been watching CNN and the American channels. I cannot remember a "happening" like this one.

City closed down except for emergency vehicles, all kinds of snow equipment out ready to go, journalists in different locations waiting for the snow monster and - very little snow. I assume much more is coming but I found it funny to watch a person standing in downtown NY with warnings when there is less than an inch on the ground.

I hope that this is a legitimate threat and the blizzard will indeed hit soon and the preparations and warnings were warranted.

I cannot remember a preparation like this for a weather event - can you?

[-1=e^ipi]

[Shady]

What I find ironic is this story from about 1 year ago in The New York Times...

The End of Snow?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-snow.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=1

[Bonam]

What I find ironic is this story from about 1 year ago in The New York Times...

The End of Snow?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-snow.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=1

Year to year variations, season to season variations, and storm to storm variations, are large in amplitude compared to the effects of long term trends, but the long term trends do exist. I'm a skier, much like the writer of that article, and the reality is that here in the Pacific Northwest, in Washington, all 4 of the major ski resorts are on the very brink of just not being viable any more. Day time highs at these ski resorts are consistently right around 30-34 F throughout the winter (this year they've been closer to 40 F, turning the slopes to messes of mud and rock rather than snow). On almost any day when it's snowing at a ski resort base at ~4000 ft, it's almost certainly raining down at 3000 ft where it's just a couple degrees warmer.

A 1 degree higher average winter temperature in the PNW will kill all 4 major ski resorts in Washington (Baker, Crystal, Stevens, Snoqualmie) dead. Snoqualmie, the lowest in elevation of the 4, is basically already there, with 3/25 lifts and 3/112 runs open, and this is late January, when the snowpacks are supposed to be deepest.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Bonam

[GostHacked]

The overreaction to the storm is quite funny. If you don't have enough food to last a few days at least (could order out I guess )then how did you make it through all the other storms? As a Canadian used to large amounts of snow, this confuses me greatly.

[overthere]

OMG, 6 to 8 inches in NYC.

Maybe Toronto could call out the army and send it south to help.

[On Guard for Thee]

Apparently NYC got off pretty easy vis a vis the forecast. Seems the storm veered a bit. The Canadian east coast looks to be taking the brunt of it now.

[Boges]

Boston getting 60 cm is God's punishment for Inflategate.

[guyser]

The overreaction to the storm is quite funny. If you don't have enough food to last a few days at least (could order out I guess )then how did you make it through all the other storms? As a Canadian used to large amounts of snow, this confuses me greatly.

8.5 M people trying to move when a storm hits on a weekday is easily seen as a huge problem.

What is laughable is people in little pop places thinking its not a problem.

[Boges]

8.5 M people trying to move when a storm hits on a weekday is easily seen as a huge problem.

What is laughable is people in little pop places thinking its not a problem.

They're damned if they, do damned if they don't. But this was a huge miss by the weather people. New York got a small dusting relative to what was predicted.

[guyser]

They're damned if they, do damned if they don't. But this was a huge miss by the weather people. New York got a small dusting relative to what was predicted.

Very true.

They do nothing, they get screamed at.

They do something, they are overreacting.

As for it missing, well , that happens. The pressure systems tweaked their path and missed dumping on NYC. Good for them.

And it was kind of funny when TO got dumped, but the city needed to get back up and running, way too many people being inconvenienced. Had we built this city like Montreal, we would have been much better, but we didnt.

[Boges]

Pre-emptive cancellations are kind of pointless though.

It's the aftermath of a major storm like these that cause the major troubles.

No one was saying that the GTA should have shutdown the Friday before the Ice Storm last year, even though everyone knew it was coming.

[guyser]

Pre-emptive cancellations are kind of pointless though.

Landing fees , fuel , wages, are all pretty much saved by shutting down flights.

Fuel and wages/overtime for sity staff are missed by the same actions .

Having city/highway staff available to rescue folks, when everyone thought it was to hit hard,is expensive.

Still pointless?

It's the aftermath of a major storm like these that cause the major troubles.

Ergo why they do the travel bans, th shut downs etc.

No one was saying that the GTA should have shutdown the Friday before the Ice Storm last year, even though everyone knew it was coming.

But no one was saying it would be as bad as it got.

A degree either way and no concerns arise. A risk was taken....and they lost.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Guyser2

[Boges]

Landing fees , fuel , wages, are all pretty much saved by shutting down flights.

Fuel and wages/overtime for sity staff are missed by the same actions .

Having city/highway staff available to rescue folks, when everyone thought it was to hit hard,is expensive.

Still pointless?

Ergo why they do the travel bans, th shut downs etc.

And you lose money by cancelling all that too. Employers aren't just going to give people free vacations across the board, it's just the reality of the situation.

But no one was saying it would be as bad as it got.

A degree either way and no concerns arise. A risk was taken....and they lost.

I heard dire predictions as early as Thursday of that week. I remember making plans that Saturday Afternoon for the impending issues. The crisis in Toronto was mostly due to infrastructure and the nature of the older communities.

The meteorologists got that storm bang on actually.

[overthere]

Landing fees , fuel , wages, are all pretty much saved by shutting down flights.

It will cost the airlines one or two days of revenue, which is a huge hit. And they still have lots of costs. They still have to pay for airline lease or credit costs, rent at jetways, and will have to still pay a lot of those wages. When your employer sends you home and you're nionized, you get paidf soemting. But the loss of revenue is big, they don';t make anything sitting on the ground.

[guyser]

It will cost the airlines one or two days of revenue, which is a huge hit. And they still have lots of costs.

Agreed, however savings are made by shutting down versus sitting wide open and nowhere to go.

[overthere]

They don't shut down the airline, they just leave the revenue earners sitting idle while still costing money.

[guyser]

Think fuel man, fuel .

and...

overnight costs

severe enough snow accumulation and a plane awaits sunshine and freedom fo a few days.

De-icing costs are huge

Staffing....

[Boges]

Think fuel man, fuel .

and...

overnight costs

severe enough snow accumulation and a plane awaits sunshine and freedom fo a few days.

De-icing costs are huge

Staffing....

So the staff doesn't get paid? Doubt it.

I can agree with an airport being shut down. But the subway? The highway? McDonalds? That's an over-reaction especially in a town where commuting by automobile isn't required like many other places in the US.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Boges

[WIP]

I hope that this is a legitimate threat and the blizzard will indeed hit soon and the preparations and warnings were warranted.

I cannot remember a preparation like this for a weather event - can you?

That's not going to work! The attention spans of most people these days are too short to learn from the past or learn from previous mistakes! So, wishing a big storm will wake people there up to climate change, will likely last as long and yield the same long term results as the results the Sandy Hook Massacre had on gun control.

Many people....even Democratic lawmakers...who never stick their necks out without checking polling data or focus group testing...jumped the gun and called for banning assault weapons like the AR-15 (why the hell is that even legal in the first place?), only to watch the issue fade from the headlines and wither on the vine as various branches of the gun lobby went to work promoting more gun sales and fewer restrictions.

Nothing much surprises me these days, but even I was surprised that the killing of 20 grade one schoolchildren couldn't end the insanity of allowing most everyone to run around carrying firearms; so I can't say I would hold out much hope that those denying the obvious on climate change will change course because of any size storm before the wheels fall off the wagon of civilization.

Edited January 27, 2015 by WIP

[guyser]

So the staff doesn't get paid? Doubt it.

I hope it didnt come across as 'all go unpaid', but some certainly would get a day off unpaid.

I can agree with an airport being shut down. But the subway? The highway? McDonalds? That's an over-reaction especially in a town where commuting by automobile isn't required like many other places in the US.

If there is too much snow, theres too much snow to operate the system. Enough of it is above ground.

McDonalds uses PT labour, so theres a savings.

How much did it cost the City of Buffalo when they got socked with snow trying to get folks off the interstates ?Do you realize what mobilization efforts cost them?

[WIP]

So the staff doesn't get paid? Doubt it.

I can agree with an airport being shut down. But the subway? The highway? McDonalds? That's an over-reaction especially in a town where commuting by automobile isn't required like many other places in the US.

I'm reminded that one of the reasons Superstorm Sandy caused much higher deaths and severe injuries, was because there had been one or two major storm warnings that fizzled out...or in the case of Hurricane Irene...shifted course and missed NYC. I wonder if a lot of Vermonters felt it was retribution for going on and on about how New York dodged a bullet, when that bullet - Irene flooded out valleys and cause major destruction in Vermont. The average New Yorker only has room for what affects them directly.

So, since news this morning says New York was spared, they'll be yacking about how 'nothing happened' because....nothing happened to them. And the next time a storm comes barreling in, they'll be out and about just like during Sandy!

[Boges]

I'm reminded that one of the reasons Superstorm Sandy caused much higher deaths and severe injuries, was because there had been one or two major storm warnings that fizzled out...or in the case of Hurricane Irene...shifted course and missed NYC. I wonder if a lot of Vermonters felt it was retribution for going on and on about how New York dodged a bullet, when that bullet - Irene flooded out valleys and cause major destruction in Vermont. The average New Yorker only has room for what affects them directly.

So, since news this morning says New York was spared, they'll be yacking about how 'nothing happened' because....nothing happened to them. And the next time a storm comes barreling in, they'll be out and about just like during Sandy!

I'm not saying vigilance and planning isn't a good thing. But a shut down of the city before you can be 100% sure it will hit is overkill.

[guyser]

But a shut down of the city before you can be 100% sure it will hit is overkill.

I'll refer you to your earlier post, damned if they do AND don't.

[guyser]

All one need do is look at Boston today. Expected top have two ft of snow.

Now transpose that to NYC.

There must be a reason 7700 flights were cancelled , Im guessing to (A) save money on wages and Jet fuel and (B )to have planes ready to go from safe havens when its time to go.