guyser Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 If your position is that the GG is more powerful than the PM, I see your face palm and up you a nuclear face palm.Another thing that wont go your way. Tell us, who does the PM ask when he wants an election? Who does the PM ASK when he wants to stupidly prorogue Parliament? Who holds the source of the power to govern? Quote
overthere Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 his caucus his caucus PMO none of that is new under Harper. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
overthere Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 I understand you are trying to spank us into some junior high civics lesson. I believe in realpolitik. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
guyser Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 his caucus his caucus PMO none of that is new under Harper. Oh my, hope that isnt a reply to my post. Aint no spanking, just education. The OP has no idea, apparently some others dont either. Quote
overthere Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 Let's have it, both barrels of relentless pedantry. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
guyser Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 Go ahead, jump into the OP's camp. Dumb and dumber I guess. You really want to own that? Sheesh Quote
drummindiver Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Guyser, I realize this is a left leaning forum, so you may call ppl names without any fear of reprisal from the mods. Did I delete my post? Yup. I quoted the constitution. This: (2) If he takes an Oath or makes a Declaration or Acknowledgment of Allegiance, Obedience, or Adherence to a Foreign Power, or does an Act whereby he becomes a Subject or Citizen, or entitled to the Rights or Privileges of a Subject or Citizen, of a Foreign Power: Yes, Guyser, I understand that if they are already Senators, they can maintain their dual citizenship. Thank you. Do I agree with this? No. Why is there no mention of whether the PM may have dual citizenship. He appoints senators, you would think they would mention this? (I know you are going to say the GG appoints the senate. Only on the advice of the PM. Look it up) Is it because when they wrote the law they took it for granted the PM would want to be, well, Canadian? My reasons for not agreeing with Mulcair has nothing to do with my smallc, but rather the fact I am proud to be a Canadian, and can't understand why somebody who aspires to lead this country would want citizenship with another. It turned into the normal name calling, putting others' opinions down, so it seemed useless to even argue. I thought I would just leave it for those obviously smarter than myself to worry about. So Guyser, to answer some of your questions. Who does PM ask to prorogue? Yup, GG. Who does PM ask about an election? Yup, GG Who holds the source of power to govern? Nope, not the GG. It is the PMO. You must also realize that the GG is not our head of state. The Queen is. The GG is merely a representative of the queen.. You do realize the difference between a head of state and the head of government, don't you? If you don't understand that Head of State in our case is ceremonial, you don't understand our political system circa 2015. You must also realize the GG must remain neutral in all dealings with government? Would you then not find it difficult to govern? You do know how the Statute of Westiminster 1931 and the Canada Act 1982 works, right? patriate /ˈpætrɪˌeɪt; ˈpeɪtrɪˌeɪt/ verb (transitive) 1. to bring under the authority of an autonomous country, for example as in the transfer of the Canadian constitution from UK to Canadian responsibility Anyways, Guyser, thank you for your continued rudeness and obstinacy. Edited January 22, 2015 by drummindiver Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Guyser, I realize this is a left leaning forum, so you may call ppl names without any fear of reprisal from the mods. Thread drift, but... http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/24024-gamergate-primer/?p=1006606 There's certainly "The Right" and "The Left" on this forum, which you don't tend to get on other Canadian political forums. That's the reason I've only ever posted here and can't stand that other place. That other places takes in-group as its own forum and out-group as other forums. I called this place a "microcosm" because we have groups existing side by side withinour forum. ... However, that's not the only solidarity here. There's also an expectation at this forum that people will put a little more thought into their posts and back up what they're arguing. Granted it doesn't always happen that way, but this is a "norm" here Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
drummindiver Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Thread drift, but.. Yes Michael, this forum is more tolerant than Rabble.ca. I also realize your political views will come into play while moderating. Human nature. I'm going to laugh about it. Also human nature. Another thing that wont go your way. Won't go my way? How do you mean? I should adjust my opinions to match the majority here? If we all agreed, this forum would be rather boring, wouldn't it? Kind of like posting at Rabble.ca...boring. And ppl like me waving my "c" flag are not welcome there. I like debates and arguments. So,uh, please, Guyser, don't ever change. Edited January 22, 2015 by drummindiver Quote
eyeball Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Guyser, I realize this is a left leaning forumIt's probably worse than you think, the whole Internet looks like it's been compromised.The right better do something before the whole planet is overrun. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
overthere Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 It's probably worse than you think, the whole Internet looks like it's been compromised. The right better do something before the whole planet is overrun. Goosestepping lessons at noon. Be there. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
drummindiver Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Posted January 23, 2015 It's probably worse than you think, the whole Internet looks like it's been compromised. The right better do something before the whole planet is overrun. lol. Thank you. I appreciate your humour. Quote
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) You are being purposely disingenuous. The Prime Minister, as being first among equals, is elected to govern. The GG is appointed for five years in a ceremonial role. They do have prerogative powers, but only used during extreme trials and tribulations. If your position is that the GG is more powerful than the PM, I see your face palm and up you a nuclear face palm. You do realize I'm talking about the monarch, the Queen of Canada. The Governor General is her viceroy. Do you understand Reserve Powers? The Prime Minister sits, as long as the House and the Queen let him sit. Edited January 23, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
guyser Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Guyser, I realize this is a left leaning forum, so you may call ppl names without any fear of reprisal from the mods.Left right in between, take your pick. Did I delete my post? Yup. I quoted the constitution. This: (2) If he takes an Oath or makes a Declaration or Acknowledgment of Allegiance, Obedience, or Adherence to a Foreign Power, or does an Act whereby he becomes a Subject or Citizen, or entitled to the Rights or Privileges of a Subject or Citizen, of a Foreign Power: Yes, Guyser, I understand that if they are already Senators, they can maintain their dual citizenship. Thank you. Do I agree with this? No. Why is there no mention of whether the PM may have dual citizenship. He appoints senators, you would think they would mention this? (I know you are going to say the GG appoints the senate. Only on the advice of the PM. Look it up) Is it because when they wrote the law they took it for granted the PM would want to be, well, Canadian? Mulcair got his dual citizenship because of a scare when he was travelling and had a diff passport than his kids and wife. So ....really, not much to it if we accept that stroyline. In the meantime, have we seen him, or anyone else in the same boat , treat his other country as superior? Nope. Im not so sure the framers of our Const really cared. They put nothing in the Const regards the PM holding dual, and I dont think it matters much at all. Anyone ascribing to that position has, and had, only one country in mind at al times. I mock because this appears so similar to the Kenyan/Muslim/Indonesian stupidity regarding the guy who sits in the whithouse . My reasons for not agreeing with Mulcair has nothing to do with my smallc, but rather the fact I am proud to be a Canadian, and can't understand why somebody who aspires to lead this country would want citizenship with another. It turned into the normal name calling, putting others' opinions down, so it seemed useless to even argue. I thought I would just leave it for those obviously smarter than myself to worry about.Was /Is there any evidence so far that he has favours to pay France? Anything at all? Who does PM ask to prorogue? Yup, GG. Who does PM ask about an election? Yup, GG Who holds the source of power to govern? Nope, not the GG. It is the PMO. Respectfullly, you need to read up on how he governs, and that is at the behest of the Queen thru here rep the GG. You must also realize that the GG is not our head of state. The Queen is. The GG is merely a representative of the queen.. You do realize the difference between a head of state and the head of government, don't you? If you don't understand that Head of State in our case is ceremonial, you don't understand our political system circa 2015. It operates as a largely ceremonial position however with real powers that are vested. I liken it to lots of families. Dad moves the furniture and does the heavy lifting, but who really rules the roost? Mom. You must also realize the GG must remain neutral in all dealings with government? Would you then not find it difficult to govern?She does remain neutral....until she has to decide what to do. You do know how the Statute of Westiminster 1931 and the Canada Act 1982 works, right? patriate /ˈpætrɪˌeɪt; ˈpeɪtrɪˌeɪt/ verb (transitive) 1. to bring under the authority of an autonomous country, for example as in the transfer of the Canadian constitution from UK to Canadian responsibility Not sure of any relevance here. Anyways, Guyser, thank you for your continued rudeness and obstinacy.Rudeness ...ok, but we have had these same discussions before and they were kind of dumb then and I think still are. Obstinance was not part of any post here. Look, the simple fact is you started with a premise that was wrong from the get go. You had a bug in your system and found what you thought was evidence to back it up. Thats where the silliness started. But you pushed and well.......here we are. Quote
drummindiver Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Posted January 23, 2015 You do realize I'm talking about the monarch, the Queen of Canada. The Governor General is her viceroy. Do you understand Reserve Powers? The Prime Minister sits, as long as the House and the Queen let him sit. And the Canadian electorate have no say? Of c Left right in between, take your pick. Mulcair got his dual citizenship because of a scare when he was travelling and had a diff passport than his kids and wife. So ....really, not much to it if we accept that stroyline. In the meantime, have we seen him, or anyone else in the same boat , treat his other country as superior? Nope. Im not so sure the framers of our Const really cared. They put nothing in the Const regards the PM holding dual, and I dont think it matters much at all. Anyone ascribing to that position has, and had, only one country in mind at al times. I mock because this appears so similar to the Kenyan/Muslim/Indonesian stupidity regarding the guy who sits in the whithouse .Was /Is there any evidence so far that he has favours to pay France? Anything at all? Respectfullly, you need to read up on how he governs, and that is at the behest of the Queen thru here rep the GG. It operates as a largely ceremonial position however with real powers that are vested. I liken it to lots of families. Dad moves the furniture and does the heavy lifting, but who really rules the roost? Mom.She does remain neutral....until she has to decide what to do. Not sure of any relevance here. Rudeness ...ok, but we have had these same discussions before and they were kind of dumb then and I think still are. Obstinance was not part of any post here. Look, the simple fact is you started with a premise that was wrong from the get go. You had a bug in your system and found what you thought was evidence to back it up. Thats where the silliness started. But you pushed and well.......here we are. Thank you for the response. I don't believe I started with a wrong premise. It has nothing to do with Obama. Simple as what I stated, which is my opinion, nothing more. I have read quite extensively on who rules and how in Canada. I understand, as stated, that it is indeed the Queen who is head of state in Canada, and that the GG is her rep here. Canada has complete sovereignty as an independent country and the Queen's role as monarch of Canada is separate from her role as the British monarch or the monarch of any of the other Commonwealths. http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/canada.htm The Commonwealth realms are, for purposes of international relations, sovereign states. They are united only in voluntary sharing of the institution of the monarchy, Yours and Cybercoma's arguments would suggest that Canada is not indeed a sovereign state. -regards the importance,or lack of importance, of Statute of Westiminster 1931 and the Canada Act 1982 "Even though Canada only gained control of its own constitutional amendment in 1982 and the very last legal traces of its colonial past have yet to be formally extinguished, it is quite evident that Canada has been a fully independent state for a number of decades. The persistence of these vestiges of Canada's former status illustrate how much Canada owes its independence from Britain to political developments, rather than legal changes in the formal constitution. The legal amendments made to the Canadian constitution were important and necessary to the acquisition of sovereign independence, but these changes were not sufficient to convey independence on their own. Britain's legislative supremacy over Canada was greatly restrained by convention long before the passage of either the Statute of Westminster or the Canada Act. And Canada's complete control over the Monarch's prerogative powers was gained incrementally through the evolution of political practices which replaced the Monarch's British advisers with Canadian ministers. This fundamental transfer of executive power, which brought with it complete independence in foreign relations, was achieved almost entirely by constitutional convention. An understanding of Canada's acquisition of full independence continues to have critical bearing on modern constitutional debates, especially with respect to the international competence of provincial governments. What international personality the provinces have the legal power to assert is not simply a matter of international political practice; it is a matter of domestic constitutional law. In any attempt to establish what the law of the Canadian constitution is on this issue, one must appreciate that the transfer of the executive powers currently exercised by the federal government was brought about almost entirely by political practice." http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/324/Independence.html http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/sovereignty/ Quote
guyser Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Thank you for the response. I don't believe I started with a wrong premise. It has nothing to do with Obama. Simple as what I stated, which is my opinion, nothing more. As far as a wrong premise , Sadly I have no available means to see your OP since you deleted it. I do recall that you stated how can Mulcair be a dual Cit when it states he cant...or that Senators cant have dual. The Obama angle was merely to show how silly it was down there and how silly it would look to make the same case for Mulcair. So, are you now ok with the legalities of one having dual Citizenship? Quote
cybercoma Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 And the Canadian electorate have no say? Of c The Canadian electorate have plenty of say. They're the ones who elect the representatives in the House to which the Prime Minister is accountable. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 This had got Donald Trump written all over it. As such it's just a joke, tee hee. Quote
drummindiver Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Posted January 24, 2015 As far as a wrong premise , Sadly I have no available means to see your OP since you deleted it. I do recall that you stated how can Mulcair be a dual Cit when it states he cant...or that Senators cant have dual. The Obama angle was merely to show how silly it was down there and how silly it would look to make the same case for Mulcair. So, are you now ok with the legalities of one having dual Citizenship? I stated that Senators cannot become a dual citizen. I did not state it was legal if they already had dual citizenship. An omission which I should not have made, my bad, I apologize. Is it legal for Mulcair? Yes. Does this make it right? I don't think so. I don't believe Mulcair has a realistic chance of becoming PM, so I'm not worried about it in that realm. This is not a politically motivated argument, but a moral one. I wouldn't vote for him if he "was the most Canadian" as someone stated. They are correct. I wouldn't vote for anybody, Harper included, if they had dual citizenship. I would abstain. The other debate is whether the Head of State or the Head of Government has more authority. I believe I answered that. Quote
guyser Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 I stated that Senators cannot become a dual citizen. I did not state it was legal if they already had dual citizenship. An omission which I should not have made, my bad, I apologize.Ok Is it legal for Mulcair? Yes. Does this make it right? I don't think so. This is not a politically motivated argument, but a moral one. But why? Nothing has been articulated as to what the problem is, we have liced with sitting PM's w dual Cit before, so what is the alarm sounding off in your head for? Is there some example you could show us? SOme reasoning as to why? Or....is this a non problem trying to become one? The other debate is whether the Head of State or the Head of Government has more authority. I believe I answered that. Yes, the ultimate authority lies with the Head of State . Quote
PIK Posted February 5, 2015 Report Posted February 5, 2015 Well after trying to steal over 2 mil from the taxpayer, he should either pay it back or step down. Funny how harper gets into trouble for making someone pay back the taxpayer ,but nothing about the NDP or the money the liberals still owe the taxpayer. I wonder if all the failed liberal candidates have paid their money back? Anyone know ,or elections Canada going to let them off the hook. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2015 Report Posted February 5, 2015 Well after trying to steal over 2 mil from the taxpayer, he should either pay it back or step down. What are you talking about please ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Ash74 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Posted February 5, 2015 The NDP have been ordered to pay back 2.6 million for offices that were billed to the taxpayer. The NDP are going to court over it. What are you talking about please ? Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
PIK Posted February 5, 2015 Report Posted February 5, 2015 Michael, come on man, keep up. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
jacee Posted February 8, 2015 Report Posted February 8, 2015 Nothing is sacred anymore, but I guess it makes you feel special when you can say I am a citizen of another country also. People like that I don't want around. You are either canadian or you are not. It's a family issue really. . Quote
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