jacee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Well the women won't have to sit in class with the creeps! -dalhousie-university-announces-more-penalties-in-facebook-dentistry-scandal/ HALIFAX The 13 male dentistry students at Dalhousie University who were allegedly members of a Facebook page where sexually violent content about women was posted will no longer attend classes with the rest of their classmates, the president of the university announced Friday. Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Well the women won't have to sit in class with the creeps! -dalhousie-university-announces-more-penalties-in-facebook-dentistry-scandal/ HALIFAX The 13 male dentistry students at Dalhousie University who were allegedly members of a Facebook page where sexually violent content about women was posted will no longer attend classes with the rest of their classmates, the president of the university announced Friday. Someone got it right! Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Argus Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 The police will do a fair assessment of the facts. The university will do a cover up. . So anyone who comes to a different understanding of the evidence and facts than you do is involved in a conspiracy? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 But the women involved say they didn't want "restorative justice" and only agreed because the only alternative is to go through the formal complaint process that they already rejected because they feared reprisals from the faculty. The entirety of the evidence to support that is one anonymous letter purported to be by one of the women involved. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Then pretty much all men are threatening. I have no doubt she would be in agreement with you on that score. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Not all men are as painfully stupid as those DDS students, thankfully. So it's not that they had nasty, dirty fantasies about their classmates or even that they talked about such fantasies. It's about them being 'stupid' enough to do so where they could be found out. But you are implicitly accepting that men commonly have such fantasies. Edited January 10, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Riiiight. The problem is that they made it public. Don't bother thinking about the implications of someone with that kind of mentality having access to unconscious women as part of their medical practice. You can sit here and say everyone has these scumbag fantasies, but it's not true. Some people actually, believe it or not, respect others. First, no male doctor of any kind would be alone with an unconscious female patient, for liability reasons if no other. Second, you are again saying the real problem is that they made their fantasies public - by accident. That makes them dumb, but how does that make them any more dangerous to women than the average joe? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Right, so we should all listen to you and other posters here, and disregard this whole issue. Because, apparently, most people weighing in on this issue are totally misled and do not 'get' the humour and harmless postings of these 4th year university students. Right, I get it now. Yes, that is precisely it. Of course it wasn't humourous to us. We're not involved. But guys routinely make remarks about that to each other about women they know. Sometimes its admiring. Sometimes its disrespectful. The only difference in this one was it was posted on-line and these idiots didn't realize it would get out. Do you and other posters on this thread know more then everyone else? Most of the indignation is coming from women, which is understandable. Very few women really get what goes on in mens minds. As the saying goes and I believe I've written earlier, if women knew what kind of fantasies their husbands, fathers, brothers and boyfriends had they'd run screaming into the night. The only difference about these guys is they posted it to facebook, which they evidently thought was closed to just those who were members. So they are guilty of technological ignorance, but people are trying to convict them instead of being dangerous perverts whose lives should be destroyed when all they really are is normal young men. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 I'm not being politically correct nor or others weighing in on this. That is such an easy way out to say that 'we are being politically correct'. We are standing up for the rights of these women and working to draw attention to such destructive thinking. And quite frankly, I'm done with debating this issue. I guess it's just a coincidence that almost all of you are politically correct on every other subject, then... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 First, no male doctor of any kind would be alone with an unconscious female patient, for liability reasons if no other. Where do you get THAT idea ? TORONTO -- A Hamilton doctor who was sentenced to 16 months in jail in 2011 for sexually assaulting two patients -- including one he made a pornographic movie of while she was unconscious-- could lose his licence next month, QMI Agency has learned. http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/04/20130405-181138.html Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Argus Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Where do you get THAT idea ? Interesting how they say he 'could' lose his medical licence. Ridiculous. I'm surprised, though I suppose things might be different in busy ER exam rooms. I had assumed having a female nurse present was standard operating procedure for any male doctor who is in the presence of an undressed woman. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Interesting how they say he 'could' lose his medical licence. Ridiculous. Exactly. I had a nurse/girlfriend once and she told us a story of utter incompetence by a doctor, resulting in a death that prompted a review of his competence and ultimately a "stern warning". I'm surprised, though I suppose things might be different in busy ER exam rooms. I had assumed having a female nurse present was standard operating procedure for any male doctor who is in the presence of an undressed woman. Well, now we know. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Big Guy Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Most of the opinions and speculation is based on the contents and statements posted on that site. It has disappeared. There are claims that someone has a copy and could publish exactly what was posted and in what context. I am beginning to believe that a copy no longer exists. If it did, there would be no difficulty in reproducing exactly what was posted and allow the reader to evaluate the intent. I have read of third parties stating that what was posted was " ......" but am sceptical of exactly what was posted. If some news outlet had the originals than why not publish the exact postings? That is why I would like to see this go to the court of law where the exact evidence would be presented instead of people commenting on what they "heard" was on that site. What constituted the "group of 13"? Was it everybody who contributed any comment - offensive or not? Was it everybody who was "liked"? Which of the 13 posted which statements? Collective punishment is not only inaccurate but also illegal. I hope this issue goes to court so a precedent may be set as to what is illegal and what is not on social media sites, what is the criteria for expulsion from a professional University and who has access to personal social media sites. Edited January 10, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
jacee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Most of the opinions and speculation is based on the contents and statements posted on that site. It has disappeared. There are claims that someone has a copy and could publish exactly what was posted and in what context. I am beginning to believe that a copy no longer exists. If it did, there would be no difficulty in reproducing exactly what was posted and allow the reader to evaluate the intent. I have read of third parties stating that what was posted was " ......" but am sceptical of exactly what was posted. If some news outlet had the originals than why not publish the exact postings? That is why I would like to see this go to the court of law where the exact evidence would be presented instead of people commenting on what they "heard" was on that site. What constituted the "group of 13"? Was it everybody who contributed any comment - offensive or not? Was it everybody who was "liked"? Which of the 13 posted which statements? Collective punishment is not only inaccurate but also illegal. I hope this issue goes to court so a precedent may be set as to what is illegal and what is not on social media sites, what is the criteria for expulsion from a professional University and who has access to personal social media sites. Criteria and judgements about expulsion are private matters between the students and the university. The original posts are now private, and will likely only be made public if there are criminal charges.Courts are public, but can deal only with the criminal aspects of the behaviour, or a civil lawsuit. . Edited January 10, 2015 by jacee Quote
Big Guy Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Posted January 10, 2015 But if they are "private" then they belong to those who created them - do they not? And if they are private then how did others have access to them? I respectfully suggest that if any or all of the 13 who have been accused have their future income endangered by the decision of the University then I will guarantee you that a civil lawsuit is to come. I am not familiar with Facebook technology and may be the only one on earth who does not participate. For example, a person puts a tape recorder in the washroom of a frat house (either men's or women's) during a large co-ed party and tapes everything that is said in that washroom. The person then listens to the tape and releases the contents to others. Is that the same as somebody getting into somebody's Facebook page? Could the contents of that tape be used against anybody for anything? When a person posts a statement on a Facebook page do they (can they) assume that only a select group will have access to it? Are postings on Facebook considered public access? I believe that this is an issue in this case. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Michael Hardner Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 But if they are "private" then they belong to those who created them - do they not? I think it was asserted above that they were shared out because of a mistake. When a person posts a statement on a Facebook page do they (can they) assume that only a select group will have access to it? Are postings on Facebook considered public access? I believe that this is an issue in this case. Yes, for sure. You can control these things on Facebook, but as with your tape recorder example errors can be made and people can inadvertently make comments viewable by others, or presumably the privacy could be subverted by someone in the inner circle. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
kimmy Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 The entirety of the evidence to support that is one anonymous letter purported to be by one of the women involved. The letter was from four women. Considering there are only 14 women involved in the "restorative justice" process underway, that's a pretty significant sample. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
kimmy Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 First, no male doctor of any kind would be alone with an unconscious female patient, for liability reasons if no other. That's not true. Some medical boards recommend it, to protect against false accusations. And either doctors or patients can request someone be present. But it's not required. I feel like if you feel like you need a chaperone to be present when your doctor examines you, you obviously don't trust your doctor very much so maybe they shouldn't be your doctor in the first place. But of course it's not always easy to find a doctor, and many people are stuck with whoever they get when they go to the walk-in clinic. Second, you are again saying the real problem is that they made their fantasies public - by accident. That makes them dumb, but how does that make them any more dangerous to women than the average joe? The guy in the cubicle next to yours might spend every waking moment of his day thinking about putting a hammer through your skull and it wouldn't affect you one way or another. But if he lets you know it, it's definitely going to affect you. If you go to work one day and discover that when you're not around your co-workers make jokes about beating or killing you, your workplace might become quite stressful, even if they assure you that they aren't really going to do it. I don't think anybody is suggesting that these guys' comments represent an actual intention to drug or rape their classmates. I'm just asking you to imagine for a moment that you're walking into a classroom where a group of people have singled you out as somebody they'd like to "hate-f-ck" and think how that would feel. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Smallc Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Some people are in fact saying that what was posted amounted to threats. I think that's where a lot of the pushback comes from. What was posted should never have made it the public light. It's unfortunate that it did, as it has victimized everyone Quote
jacee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 So anyone who comes to a different understanding of the evidence and facts than you do is involved in a conspiracy? If the women want justice they should go to the police. The university will do whatever it has to to protect its reputation: Justice for the women isn't a priority. . Quote
kimmy Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Some people are in fact saying that what was posted amounted to threats. I think that's where a lot of the pushback comes from. What was posted should never have made it the public light. It's unfortunate that it did, as it has victimized everyone Those poor guys, voting in the "which would you hate-f-ck?" poll... just victims of tragic circumstances. Breaks my heart. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
jacee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 But if they are "private" then they belong to those who created them - do they not? And if they are private then how did others have access to them? I respectfully suggest that if any or all of the 13 who have been accused have their future income endangered by the decision of the University then I will guarantee you that a civil lawsuit is to come. I am not familiar with Facebook technology and may be the only one on earth who does not participate. For example, a person puts a tape recorder in the washroom of a frat house (either men's or women's) during a large co-ed party and tapes everything that is said in that washroom. The person then listens to the tape and releases the contents to others. Is that the same as somebody getting into somebody's Facebook page? Could the contents of that tape be used against anybody for anything? When a person posts a statement on a Facebook page do they (can they) assume that only a select group will have access to it? Are postings on Facebook considered public access? I believe that this is an issue in this case. Your facebook posts might only be seen by members of a select group of 'friends' on your facebook page, but nothing prevents them from sending them to others, to the media or police, etc. No legal restrictions on making it public that I'm aware of. . Quote
kimmy Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 If the women want justice they should go to the police. The university will do whatever it has to to protect its reputation: Justice for the women isn't a priority. . I don't think any of the stuff that has been reported from the Facebook group would actually be a criminal matter. The issue here is a hostile environment, as well as violations of the student code of conduct. Those are matters for the school's disciplinary system, not for the police. The only avenue I could see for this to go to court would be a civil suit against the school, if students claimed that the school's refusal to address concerns that were raised last summer (in regard to chauvinist professors, not later the later Facebook issue) contributed to a hostile environment. I am not a lawyer (I refused to use the abbreviation IANAL!) but I suspect that might be one avenue they could use to go after the school if they were so inclined. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
jacee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 The guy in the cubicle next to yours might spend every waking moment of his day thinking about putting a hammer through your skull and it wouldn't affect you one way or another. But if he lets you know it, it's definitely going to affect you. If you go to work one day and discover that when you're not around your co-workers make jokes about beating or killing you, your workplace might become quite stressful, even if they assure you that they aren't really going to do it. I don't think anybody is suggesting that these guys' comments represent an actual intention to drug or rape their classmates. We have no way of knowing that. Violent perps are everywhere. One of them might be the real deal, goading the others on. Without a proper criminal investigation we just don't know. I'm just asking you to imagine for a moment that you're walking into a classroom where a group of people have singled you out as somebody they'd like to "hate-f-ck" and think how that would feel. -k I wouldn't be there. I'd be at the police station reporting them and getting a restraining order to keep them away from me - ie keep them out of class. . Quote
Argus Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 The letter was from four women. Considering there are only 14 women involved in the "restorative justice" process underway, that's a pretty significant sample. -k I read it was anonymous? Was it signed? If not then anyone could have written it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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