Argus Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 There were a lot of damning indictments of the Liberal Party in today's AG report. Probably the one which is most damning is the section dealing with the rising cost of power generation and the utter incompetence of the Ontario Liberals. Perhaps what is most clear is their total lack of care or interest in how much electricity prices would rise over the years. No cost benefit analyses was done for any aspect of Ontario's "Green Energy" programs. That includes the "smart meter" program, which cost $2 billion, twice what the Liberals original stated, and which, according to the AG, leads to no savings. No matter how eager you are to time shift, no matter how often you get up at three in the morning to do your laundry, you will save nothing. The program is a complete fraud on the taxpayers. Seventy percent of Hydro bills are now made up of the enormously generous subsidies for green energy, which is forcing Ontarions to pay billions over market rate for electricity. This amount has risen over 1200% since 2003 and is still rising. Despite repeated attempts by Ontario Power to tone down the subsidies, the Liberals bulled ahead, ignoring all recommendations that such generosity was not needed, in order to "reassure investors" in green power (many of them Liberal supporters, of course). As for all those tens of thousands of 'green energy' jobs, it turns out 75% are temporary construction jobs. http://business.financialpost.com/2011/12/06/ontarios-renewable-energy-policy-auditor-generals-observations/ http://www.thestar.com/business/2014/12/09/smart_meters_have_few_benefits_for_big_costs_ag_report.html Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
John Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 I especially like the part where she pointed out we spend more on debt servicing than on post-secondary education. The truly sad part is that most people who voted Liberal don't pay attention to the news and will never know...or they do know and just don't care. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 I'l start by saying I think Liberals have badly kicked the shyte out of the can since Tory deregulation. Perhaps what is most clear is their total lack of care or interest in how much electricity prices would rise over the years. No matter how eager you are to time shift, no matter how often you get up at three in the morning to do your laundry, you will save nothing.Saving was never the real aim of the program......when thought up we were importing MW...day prices were going to increase to force you to night use.....then 2008 happened and demand went in the toilet. No need for the program....but now we're stuck with it. Like Duguid said its tooooo complex to understand.Seventy percent of Hydro bills are now made up of the enormously generous subsidies for green energy, which is forcing Ontarions to pay billions over market rate for electricity. Did you know you pay under market rate for your nuclear/hydro? Subsidies all around. It's how the energy sector has always worked since Sir Adam Beck.[ Quote
Michael Hardner Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 I especially like the part where she pointed out we spend more on debt servicing than on post-secondary education. This part surprised me. Here is the cite: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/09/ontario-auditor-general-sounds-alarm-over-provinces-growing-debt-325-billion-by-2018/ To put those implications into perspective, Lysyk’s report pointed out that the government now spends more on debt interest than it does on post-secondary education, and those interest costs are growing. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 I saw the 2 billion spent on those smart meters. These things were to save us money. So not only are they a billion more expensive, they are NOT saving me any money on my bills at all. Another f'n scam. Quote
Moonbox Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 Did you know you pay under market rate for your nuclear/hydro? Subsidies all around. It's how the energy sector has always worked since Sir Adam Beck. Subsidies for nuclear/hydro pale in comparison to those for green/renewable. Nuclear and hydro actually provide signficant sources of electricity, whereas solar/wind have not. The epic scale of Tim Hudak's bumbling failure becomes more and more apparent as we learn more and more about the sheer incompetence of the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals. This has been quite literally the most fiscally incompetent government Ontario has ever had. Bob Rae looks great in comparison. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Keepitsimple Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Justin Trudeau stumped for Kathleen Wynne in the provincial election. Will Justin want Wynne stumping for him in the Federal election? Looks like she will be an anchor around his neck. Harper was right about Wynne's continuous complaints - stop whining and do something to get your finances in order. Edited December 10, 2014 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
PIK Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 And the gall of some liberals to say she is wrong. Chirrelli (SP) more or less laughed at the report and more or less said she is full of shit. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Posted December 10, 2014 I especially like the part where she pointed out we spend more on debt servicing than on post-secondary education. Wait till next year. Interest rates are likely to rise, and the debt is CERTAIN to rise. The Liberals' 'plan' for reducing the deficit seems to be largely made up of wishful thinking and accounting games. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Posted December 10, 2014 And the gall of some liberals to say she is wrong. Chirrelli (SP) more or less laughed at the report and more or less said she is full of shit. To be fair, electricity is very complex, and it takes a near genius like Chiarelli to have any hope of understanding how it works... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Keepitsimple Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 To be fair, electricity is very complex, and it takes a near genius like Chiarelli to have any hope of understanding how it works... Speaking of geniuses - and totally off topic - I would recommend the show "Scorpion". It's on City TV in the GTA. Very different action hour-long program about 4 Ultra-high IQ people. Inspired by the life story of Walter O'Brian. Quote Back to Basics
Argus Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Posted December 10, 2014 Speaking of geniuses - and totally off topic - I would recommend the show "Scorpion". It's on City TV in the GTA. Very different action hour-long program about 4 Ultra-high IQ people. Inspired by the life story of Walter O'Brian. This may well be the most off topic post in the history of this web site. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Bob Macadoo Posted December 10, 2014 Report Posted December 10, 2014 Subsidies for nuclear/hydro pale in comparison to those for green/renewable. Nuclear and hydro actually provide signficant sources of electricity, whereas solar/wind have not.The epic scale of Tim Hudak's bumbling failure becomes more and more apparent as we learn more and more about the sheer incompetence of the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals. This has been quite literally the most fiscally incompetent government Ontario has ever had. Bob Rae looks great in comparison. Not talking about the subsidies FOR nuclear/hydro.....talking about the ones FOR you. You pay less than market for them.....thank your local OEB. The gov't hoped with that discount you wouldn't notice the cornholing you're getting for the FIT program is palatable. What they didn't bank on is your subsidy on power has always been there.....you're never thankful for something you've never lived without. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 Not talking about the subsidies FOR nuclear/hydro.....talking about the ones FOR you. You pay less than market for them.....thank your local OEB. The gov't hoped with that discount you wouldn't notice the cornholing you're getting for the FIT program is palatable. What they didn't bank on is your subsidy on power has always been there.....you're never thankful for something you've never lived without. That's why one of the first tenets of a successful government is to "do no harm". It's often better to do nothing rather that take risky, half-baked, feel-good initiative without due respect for cost. Imagine where we'd be today if the Liberals had simply done nothing on a variety of fronts - much, much better off I suspect. Quote Back to Basics
Bob Macadoo Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 That's why one of the first tenets of a successful government is to "do no harm". It's often better to do nothing rather that take risky, half-baked, feel-good initiative without due respect for cost. Imagine where we'd be today if the Liberals had simply done nothing on a variety of fronts - much, much better off I suspect.True. Same could be said about Harris' grid dereg scheme and Rae's intervention in nuclear driving construction costs up both forever scorching the earth in all 3 regards. Quote
Ash74 Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) True. Same could be said about Harris' grid dereg scheme and Rae's intervention in nuclear driving construction costs up both forever scorching the earth in all 3 regards. k. So you are saying it is ok the liberals screwed up because of stupid mistakes made in the past? Yeah, it was screwed up than. Harris ignored it and spent little money fixing it. Dalton and Wynne dumped billions and billions on fixing it and we are are soooooo paying for it and will for generations. But it is ok cause some others screwed up too. Perhaps I am a dreamer and hope that one day we have a government that actually does a good job at it and I don't care what party they are. Edited December 11, 2014 by Ash74 Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
Topaz Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 There are other jobs connected to the turbines, they needs security because people go out at night and steal the copper wiring. In our area we had a young SG get paid to look the other way when thieves stole the wire and of course the police arrested him and he was fired. I was told hydro rates will still go up for another 4 years but since one area in Ontario has stopped the construction of the wind turbines in their area, they and we still have to pay the wind company millions for cancelling the contracts. So the taxpayer always loses. Quote
AngusThermopyle Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 It would be a sign of good faith if they at least got rid of the debt retirement charge. You know, that added cost that was actually paid off years ago but they continue to collect. That one. Any person or business that did such a thing would be charged with fraud at the very least. Not these crooks though, they just happily continue taking what isn't rightfully theirs. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
Ash74 Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/tax/drc/index.html It is in a plan to get rid of the debt but other charges will be added to replace it http://www.torontosun.com/2014/04/23/ontario-hydro-bills-to-rise-despite-end-of-debt-retirement-charge This is the same minister that said the cancelled gas plants will only cost every Ontario person and extra large timmies coffee a year for something like twenty years and we should just get over it. My question is how come when Harper cuts 650 million in transfer payments it is a fiscal disaster but over a billion in a Liberal seat buy is just not really a big deal? Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
Moonbox Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 There are other jobs connected to the turbines, Those jobs are nowhere even near a fraction of what would be necessary to recover the money we've wasted on them. I was told hydro rates will still go up for another 4 years but since one area in Ontario has stopped the construction of the wind turbines in their area, they and we still have to pay the wind company millions for cancelling the contracts. So the taxpayer always loses. Well that's sort of how contracts work. When you sign a really stupid, really bad contract, you're stuck in it. You don't get to go "Ooops! I'll take a mulligan on that!" Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Bob Macadoo Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 k. So you are saying it is ok the liberals screwed up because of stupid mistakes made in the past? ... Perhaps I am a dreamer and hope that one day we have a government that actually does a good job at it and I don't care what party they are. Nope not saying that....just saying water's wet, sky is blue and politicos interfere with things for personal benefit.Not that he is anymore knowledgeable but Chiarelli is right an accountant, general or otherwise hasn't the training to understand the complex webs of energy brokering and the kickbacks, forwards, or sideways that occur to hide costs and/or benefits. Good luck dreaming though..... Quote
AngusThermopyle Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 I see, so you're saying she isn't smart enough to grasp the intricate web of deceit and lies involved in scamming Ontarian's. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
cybercoma Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 most people who voted don't pay attention to the news FTFY Quote
cybercoma Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 If Ontarians had only elected Tim Hudak as premier, you would have 1 MILLION new jobs today. Quote
Ash74 Posted December 11, 2014 Report Posted December 11, 2014 Nope not saying that....just saying water's wet, sky is blue and politicos interfere with things for personal benefit. Not that he is anymore knowledgeable but Chiarelli is right an accountant, general or otherwise hasn't the training to understand the complex webs of energy brokering and the kickbacks, forwards, or sideways that occur to hide costs and/or benefits. Good luck dreaming though..... Turns out the auditor may be more qualified than Chiarelli. http://www.torontosun.com/2014/12/10/wynne-government-stoops-to-new-lows She worked for Manitoba hydro for ten years. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
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