I won a million bucks - yeah right

[Argus]

So I got this letter in the mail yesterday from "Publishers Clearing House". It informs me I've won $1.2 million dollars, and is accompanied by a very real looking cheque for just shy of $10,000 from Hyundai Canada, allegedly one of their sponsors, for any expenses I might incur while claiming my prize.

Now I know this is BS. I don't enter lotteries for one thing, and I know no lottery is going to send letters to multi million dollar winners.

But there are two things about this which bother me. The first is that some people who get this, probably desperately eager and poor people, are going to take the bait. They're going to call the number, going to learn they have to pay thousands of dollars for various fees involved in collecting the big prize, going to deposit the cheque with their bank, and send the money. Then their bank will inform them the cheque didn't clear and they're screwed.

The second thing is I know the cops don't care. Fraud is illegal in Canada but only sort of. The police just don't investigate fraud unless it's on a very large scale. That's why mechanics can routinely lie about replacing parts in your car that don't need to be replaced, and not much care even if you find out. They know the cops won't do anything anyway. And that's why these scams exist, because the cops won't even bother to look into them

I did report this to the Canadian anti-Fraud Centre, but they don't investigate these things, just record them. I called the cops, just on the off chance the counterfeiting aspect might interest them, but they don't care about that either.

They should care. The reason they don't is because it takes a lot of effort to investigate such financial crimes but the courts will mostly just yawn and give offenders a slap on the wrist, if that. In the states some of these heartless scammers, who mostly cheat elderly and unsophisticated people, have gotten major jail time. In Canada, well, occasionally someone cheating the elderly gets hooked by a cop who is annoyed enough to investigate, but it's mostly a big yawn from the authorities.

[cybercoma]

They should care. The reason they don't is because it takes a lot of effort to investigate such financial crimes but the courts will mostly just yawn and give offenders a slap on the wrist, if that.

In these cases the investigations would be relatively simple compared to say derivative schemes that are beyond the comprehension of some of the most experienced people in the finance sector. So imagine how this applies to the kind of scams the banks are running.

[Argus]

In these cases the investigations would be relatively simple compared to say derivative schemes that are beyond the comprehension of some of the most experienced people in the finance sector. So imagine how this applies to the kind of scams the banks are running.

Well, they provide a real phone number to contact. Phone numbers can be traced. The cops can walk in and demand to know why they're sending phony cheques around...

[cybercoma]

They could, if they can even understand that a crime took place. The problem is that the regulators who are smart enough and trained enough to understand these things can make way more money working for the banks. That leaves the best and brightest working for those perpetrating the frauds, while the least qualified are more likely to be with the regulatory body.

Anyway, I'm steering this off topic.

What it boils down to, imo, is that the police go after crimes that worry the rich. You said it yourself, "The first is that some people who get this, probably desperately eager and poor people, are going to take the bait." Those desperately eager and poor people are much more likely to be lower educated as well. The police rarely focus on crimes to the lower class. Instead the focus on crimes of the lower class. That's part of the reason you have very little investigation and prosecution of white collar crime and such an inordinate amount of focus, time, and resources dumped into the petty crimes of the poor. Until these crimes worry the wealthy and well-educated in some way, they will continue to be dismissed. Those people, as you implied, do not worry about these scams because they know better and as a result they don't get the attention of our social institutions.

Edited November 21, 2014 by cybercoma

[OddSox]

Publishers Clearing House has been sending these out for over 30 years - I'm pretty sure they have the legalities figured out by now.

[PIK]

My mother has won about a 100 million from them thru the yrs, but she has never received a check yet. lol

[Argus]

Publishers Clearing House has been sending these out for over 30 years - I'm pretty sure they have the legalities figured out by now.

You're missing the point. It's not from Publishers Clearing House. It just SAYS it's from them.

[GostHacked]

I've always looked at those types of things as fraud. Same deal with those that tell me I won a cruise, but I need to jump through many hoops just to get screwed in the end.

[Moonbox]

They should care. The reason they don't is because it takes a lot of effort to investigate such financial crimes but the courts will mostly just yawn and give offenders a slap on the wrist, if that.

The justice system cares, it's just like you said that it's way too hard to track these things down, particularly for local/municipal police. The scam artists are generally not local themselves and often from other countries. In one of these cases, a simple petty fraud arrest would likely require full-scale RCMP/FBI/Interpol investigations. Law enforcement doesn't have unlimited resources and sadly there is way bigger (and often easier) game to catch.

The other thing to consider is that this sort of scam is easily preventable and only the dumbest schmucks (or invalids) actually fall for them. For the former it's simply not realistic to suggest we spend valuable resources saving people from their own stupidity. For the latter it's really a sad situation where seniors probably need more family and social support (particularly ones with dementia/infirmities).

[August1991]

But there are two things about this which bother me. The first is that some people who get this, probably desperately eager and poor people, are going to take the bait. They're going to call the number, going to learn they have to pay thousands of dollars for various fees involved in collecting the big prize, going to deposit the cheque with their bank, and send the money. Then their bank will inform them the cheque didn't clear and they're screwed.

The second thing is I know the cops don't care.

Argus, your two points are IMHO profound.

I have always considered that lottery tickets are a tax on people who are bad at math. (This is your first point.)

Should the State sell/encourage/discourage people buying lottery tickets? (This is your second point.)

====

1. Some people are simply bad at managing life. They make bad decisions, screw things up, buy lottery tickets or pursue false promises. Given a good card hand, they play it badly. (Other people, given even a terrible hand, manage to play it as best they can.)

2. Should the State (the cops, in your terms) get involved in helping people who make bad decisions in life? How?

Edited November 23, 2014 by August1991

[Argus]

The other thing to consider is that this sort of scam is easily preventable and only the dumbest schmucks (or invalids) actually fall for them. For the former it's simply not realistic to suggest we spend valuable resources saving people from their own stupidity.

I think you fail to appreciate that not everyone is on the internet. That's particularly so of seniors, or say, a very busy person working several jobs. If you don't spend a lot of time on news you could be ignorant of the prevalence of such scams, and seeing a very real cheque for many thousands of dollars, you could believe it's true, even without being a cretin.

[Moonbox]

I think you fail to appreciate that not everyone is on the internet. That's particularly so of seniors, or say, a very busy person working several jobs. If you don't spend a lot of time on news you could be ignorant of the prevalence of such scams, and seeing a very real cheque for many thousands of dollars, you could believe it's true, even without being a cretin.

Perhaps. I have worked in finance/banking for most of my adult life and have seen first hand how these scams work and who falls for them. The second place people go after being taken is their bank (the first is the police). Unfortunately neither party can do much to help. I have also seen almost every variety of this sort of scam and it's not just old people and idiots who fall for them. Even educated professionals are occasionally caught. Regardless, a sucker is still a sucker. It takes a special type of naivety to accept a $30,000 bank draft from a Chinese "sports team" who need chiropractic services and then agree to send $10,000 back to them when a day later after they adjust how long they'll be staying in Canada...obviously before their cheque clears.

It's not that I have no sympathy for these people, as they're usually overly trusting, desperate or in some way incapable/vulnerable, but the fact is that it's not realistic or even really possible for local or even regional police to do much to stop it. The resources required to track the scammers down are immense as they're extremely careful and suspicious people who bolt at the first sign of complication. The only real defence against them is educating people on the danger.

[overthere]

The real motivation the scammers play on is not desperation or poverty or trust.

It is greed.

Everybody wants something for nothing, and wants to believe that the generous Nigerian prince who has my email address is a ticket to a lifetime of free lunches.

That is also why these scams often go unreported. The money is gone and the victims realize they have scammed themselves into believing it could possibly be true. The money isn't coming back, and they are too embarassed to admit they were taken.

A secondary motivator is fear. These guys are the worst of the scummers (pun intended).

They are the ones who phone Grandma and pretend they are a grandson who has had an accident, or is in jail and needs their help right away.

Send money Grandma!!

[Moonbox]

All of this is right. It's also very sad and nearly impossible to do anything about.

The expression "A fool and his money are soon parted" dates back 400+ years and it's an expression known by virtually every native English speaker in the world.

As you mention, however, it's not just the fool that is taken. It's also the addled/old/infirm. I had an older client once whose husband sent ~$50,000 to a scammer in China in just over a year's time. When his wife found out about it he'd already sent over $30,000. Unfortunately, she couldn't stop him because doctors couldn't do anything about it, deeming him mentally competent despite this. She was completely helpless to stop her husband throwing their retirement savings down the toilet.

[xul]

There are two kind of frauds which police or even a court couldn't do anything with them.

The first kind of fraud is which is practically untraceable. This kind of frauds usually take forms of internet, e-mail or telephone frauds.

Two years ago, when I was trying to buy a SUV or a truck to tow my boat, I found an ad of an almost brand new Ford with very attractive price on Kijiji. I sent a message to make an appointment to see the vehicle, praying there weren't a dozen of buyers before me. Surprisingly, I got a reply minutes later. The seller told me she was an ex-wife of a rich guy and the vehicle was left by her ex-husband so it was no use to her. The price is so low because she was eager to get rid of all heartbreaking old souvenirs. I even didn't realize it was a fraud at this point. But the story she or alleged she told me after that almost made me laught----she told me the vehicle wasn't in Canada right now. It was in an American militray base in Panama, where a friend of her father (an American general ) kept the car for her, so we'd be better to trade the vehicle via ebay. I guess the next step is to send me a fake ebay and paypal link to pay for the vehicle if I take the bait.

I didn't report to police. Not only because I was only a common people which the police might not bother to take care my humble "worthless" case, but also because even if I was a Canadian MP or something, how on earth would Canadian police have power to track a fake paypal account in Panama?

The second kind of frauds are virtually "legal". People become victims because they are too trust.

It was on the day of the first month I came in Canada and the first week I moved into the new home. When my wife called me for there was a safety inspector of gas company in the basement to check the hot water tank, I didn't suspect that because in China the gas company did regularly send inspector to customer's home checking gas leak. When I went down stairs, The inspector had gone upstair from basement and told me the hot water tank needed to be replaced, then he took out some documents to let me sign. I told him that the former woner of the house told me the tank was 2 years new. Then I noticed the title of the document wasn't the gas company which I contracted with. The "inspector" desperately tried to convince me that his company was the same thing with the gas company, but I just had no mood to listen his blah.

"When I followed him to the basement, he just went into the tank room then went out in less than 10 seconds. He even didn't turn on the light, " my wife told me later. "I was just thinking how on earth could he inspect anything in the sheer darkness?"

I posted the story in a Chinese immigration forum and got a lot of replies like "Oh, another victim of hot water tank fraud". Not everyone in that forum could see through such kind of fraud. "I have just sign the contract," a lady cried."can I cancel it?" Unfortunately she couldn't. The contract she signed was legal and she, like everyone, didn't carry an audio recorder ereryday to record her every talk with others, so she has to pay hundreds of dollars rental fee each year for the unnecessary tank.

Edited November 28, 2014 by xul

[Argus]

All of this is right. It's also very sad and nearly impossible to do anything about.

No, it's not. Fraud is a crime. Printing up a cheque in the name of some company who you don't work for and sending it to people? That's an even bigger crime. That they do this while confidently putting their phone number on the fake letter shows they have no care or concern the police will even look into it. Which is justified by the fact the police have no interest in looking into it. At the very least the authorities could disable the phone number. But we're used to fraud. As I said, contractors and mechanics regularly defraud people of large amounts of money and the police simply shrug, very seldom showing any real interest.

[Moonbox]

No, it's not.

Yes, for all realistic purposes it almost literally is.

Fraud is a crime. Printing up a cheque in the name of some company who you don't work for and sending it to people? That's an even bigger crime.

Well I'm glad we have all that cleared up!

That they do this while confidently putting their phone number on the fake letter shows they have no care or concern the police will even look into it.

They confidently write their phone number because there's almost no way to trace it back. Things like burner phones or spoofing make it near impossible to track down. When your caller ID says a call is coming from your province, it may actually just be a disguised call from Pakistan.

Which is justified by the fact the police have no interest in looking into it. At the very least the authorities could disable the phone number.

Two problems with that. First, disabling a phone number is ineffective prevention in the first place. It's far easier to set up a new number than it is to have the police disable one. Second, this is assuming that the number is even a traceable and legitimate number in the first place.

But we're used to fraud. As I said, contractors and mechanics regularly defraud people of large amounts of money and the police simply shrug, very seldom showing any real interest.

If the police have anything to go on, they usually do. Petty fraud or vague complaints of it with no tangible leads and/or evidence to investigate aren't things our police should be interested in. They don't have unlimited resources.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Moonbox