Surprise! Israel refuses cooperation with UN Gaza war probe

[Rue]

This sort of racist and bigoted thinking and conversation does not warrant a debate.

How about if he calls the desire of aboriginals to be a collective a cancer and calls for them to be wiped out. Will it then warrant a response? Why the double standard as to what you find racist and bigoted? How is it you will apply one standard to Jews on this thread but another to aboriginals?

Edited November 19, 2014 by Rue

[Rue]

Michael if you are that concerned ask the thread be closed. It has not been discussing the topic it was opened for from the get go.

[Hudson Jones]

Rue - How many times are you going to ask to shut down this thread? Why are you so afraid of the truth?

Any criticism of Israel is usually met by denial, twisting of the narrative or efforts to shut it down.

[Hudson Jones]

Some good news:

In signal that Jerusalem is not opposed to cooperating with international investigative bodies it believes are professional and impartial, Jerusalem agreed on Thursday to cooperate with a UN probe investigating both attacks on UNRWA facilities during this summer's military operation in Gaza and Hamas' use of those facilities to store weapons.

The decision to cooperate with the “board of inquiry” established by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon stands in stark contrast to Jerusalem's decision not to cooperate with a UN Human Rights Council investigative committee set up to investigate what the Palestinians allege were Israeli war crimes during Operation Protective Edge.

[Hudson Jones]

If the Arabs didnt attack the Jews in the first place this wouldnt have happened. See, the Arabs strike first then feign innocence after, it's disgusting. And ppl are falling for it.

No Captain Canada. You need to stop it. You are once again spreading misinformation and I have to use my time correcting you. Not because you will change your mind and will pick facts over fiction, but because I hate to see others reading lies.

Hamas had not fired any rocket attacks for quite some time before Israel unleashed its military. The rocket attacks started after Israel started arresting Hamas officials blaming the kidnapping and killing of Jewish settler teens on Hamas. Even though Hamas denied its involvement. It was discovered that Israel knew the people who did the killings did it without the knowledge of Hamas leadership.

Once the Israeli military started going door to door and arresting over 80 Hamas people, they obviously provoked Hamas and that is when Hamas started retaliating with rockets.

It's important to not get carried away and started cheering for a team and to actually make an effort to stick to the facts.

Here is a timeline of the events, if you actually care to know.

Here is information how Hamas leadership had no knowledge and did not sanction the kidnappings and killings of the Jewish settler teens.

But the documents, related to an investigation and indictment of the man suspected of leading the kidnappers, provide no evidence that the top leaders of Hamas directed or had prior knowledge of the plot to abduct the three Israeli youths.

If you want to know about this false story about how Hamas started this, read this article. Here is part of it:

The current escalation began with the abduction of three Israeli teenagers from settlements in the West Bank. The fact that the three were kidnapped from settlements is an important detail that is often passed over far too quickly or overlooked altogether. The settlements, what they represent and how the settlers interact with the Palestinian population form a critical part of the episode’s context.

After the kidnapping, for more than two weeks Israeli authorities put on a show of looking for the missing teens — the whole time whipping up anti-Arab sentiment, raising hopes of a recovery and marginalizing voices of dissent. When the abductees were found murdered, the Israeli public was outraged and demanded vengeance. Shortly after the funerals for the youths, another group of Israeli settlers beat and burned to death a 16-year-old Palestinian teen, Mohammed Abu Khdeir. This incident was followed by a brutal assault on Tariq Khdeir, a 15-year-old U.S. citizen and cousin of Mohammed’s by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

Another fact that is less known — but perhaps more important — is that within hours of the three teens’ disappearance on June 12, Israeli officials knew that they were dead. Yet for the next two weeks authorities put on a phony rescue effort, instituted a gag order to prevent the public from knowing the truth and rallied the Jewish domestic and diaspora populations in anticipation of their move against Hamas.

Knowing that the teens were already dead, the Israeli government even sent the mothers of the abductees to the United Nations’ Human Rights Council to raise international awareness and plead for their boys’ safe return. Then the IDF launched Operation Brother’s Keeper, the most extensive military operation in the West Bank for more than a decade, under the auspices of saving the missing teens whom, again, they knew to be deceased.

The blame for their abduction immediately went to Hamas, which denied any involvement in the kidnapping. Israel has offered no concrete proof to implicate Hamas — instead identifying as its prime suspects a rogue faction with a history of defying Hamas’ leadership and sabotaging the group’s peace-building efforts. They were identified early on, meaning that Israel knew full well that neither Hamas nor its armed wing (al-Qassam Brigades) were behind the boys’ disappearance. Nonetheless, the IDF began a military campaign against them and de facto the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza.

On June 17, Israel rearrested 50 Palestinian prisoners set free in 2011 as part of the Gilad Shalit prisoner swap with Hamas — a bold provocation that violates its armistice with Hamas. Without cause, the IDF also rounded up a number of clerics, intellectuals and politicians affiliated with or known to be sympathetic toward Hamas. It also raided hundreds of Palestinian sites, including homes, businesses, universities and clinics — in the process pillaging more than $3 million in cash and property, in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Scores of Palestinian civilians were killed in these operations — again, before rockets were fired from Gaza. The misery of the civilian population was compounded by IDF checkpoints and curfews that severely restrict the movement of the Palestinian people, during Ramadan, no less.

In mid-June, in preparation for the reprisal attacks from Hamas that the IDF was attempting to provoke, it moved its Iron Dome batteries into southern Israeli cities. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu then called on Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to dissolve the unity government with Hamas — reiterating previous threats ofpunitive measures unless the union is suspended. Meanwhile, the IDF began calling up reserve troops in anticipation of the ground assault.

All these provocations came weeks before Hamas fired the first rockets into Israel. As such, contrary to Obama’s claims and the widely held narrative in Western media, it was in fact Hamas that was acting in self-defense. Israel doggedly sought out this war, and Hamas gave it to them.

[dre]

How about if he calls the desire of aboriginals to be a collective a cancer and calls for them to be wiped out. Will it then warrant a response? Why the double standard as to what you find racist and bigoted? How is it you will apply one standard to Jews on this thread but another to aboriginals?

Nobody is calling for Israel to be wiped out, or lose the collective right to self determination. Whats at issue is 60+ years of colonizing land thats OUTSIDE their legal and internationally recognized border. All the rest of that is just voices in your head, that you choose to project on people here. And thats why, with ALL of your constant allegations of racism, anti-semitism, terrorist apology, etc etc you never have the crucial thing needed to backstop any of those claims. EVIDENCE.

As for a double standard... You went on a full-on spaz-out rant over your perception that a poster had suggested some jews go back and live in Germany... But JBG's constant calls for ethnic cleansing, and refrains of "Theres already lots of Arab states for Palestinians to live in." dont seem to bother you a bit.

[Rue]

Nobody is calling for Israel to be wiped out, or

As for a double standard... You went on a full-on spaz-out rant over your perception that a poster had suggested some jews go back and live in Germany... But JBG's constant calls for ethnic cleansing, and refrains of "Theres already lots of Arab states for Palestinians to live in." dont seem to bother you a bit.

Your first sentence is nonsensical.

The constitutions of Hamas, ISIL, Al Quaeda, the PFLP, Fatah Hawks, Intifada Palestine, call for a world wide Muslim caliphate and a global war to rid it of Jews. Anyone can read the constitutions. For you to deny them is deliberate. They have been reproduced on this forum numerous times and when they have you had no response for them.

You also make statement knowing just a few posts ago Hudson Jones repeated yet again, that Zionism is a cancer to be wiped out. Spin that any way you want it Dre it comes off loud and clear and as I said to you and Michael Harder and others who tried to suggest I made it up in the past, and asked me to reproduce it and explain to me how it does not necessarily mean killing Zionist Jews -you never did. Go on tell me wiping out Zionism does not mean wiping out Zionist Jews and wiping Zionist Jews out does not mean killing them. Yah I know it means talking kleenex and wiping them with it.

Now on to your other statement. You are as usual dead wrong. I had heated debate and drawn out nasty debate at that with JBG over what I thought were negative stereotypes of ALL Palestinians and ALL Arabs and all Muslims. You are dead wrong as usual.

You have a problem with any of JBG's opinions take them up with him. Unlike you when I do, I debate him directly and I have and he has responded.

Now you want to show me a post where I have called for ethnic cleansing? Go on. Find one. Find any thread where I support and called upon removing Palestinians from the West Bank. Either put up or shut up with the continually false misrepresentations and accusations as to what I have said or expressed as opinion or supported by opinion.

Finally you now need to defend what Eye said. You want to join Moonlight Graham and explain to me how giving a slice of Germany to Jews as a solution to the conflict in the Middle East does not refer to deporting them to Germany? Go on. Any of you who defend him. Explain to me how wiping out Zionism does not mean killing Zionists and how taking a slice out of Germany and giving it to Jews does not mean shipping Jews there.

Go on for once finish what you start. You won't. What you will do is try misrepresent what I said to try make personal attacks on me to portray me as a hater of Palestinians.

What is also interesting is you were quick to have a different response to Eye when he first made his comment, now you want to do a little dance and defend it? Knock yourself out.

[Hudson Jones]

a few posts ago Hudson Jones repeated yet again, that Zionism is a cancer to be wiped out.

Never have I said (or meant) that Zionists, Jews, Arabs, Muslims, etc. should be wiped out when I have said that Zionism and Wahabism, which are ideologies, should be wiped out.

Stop crying about things that don't exist.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's what the America's PalestIndians said about imperialism ideology as well. How'd that work out ? All the Zionists need is a queen !

[Hudson Jones]

That's what the America's PalestIndians said about imperialism ideology as well. How'd that work out ? All the Zionists need is a queen !

Sure. Now that Joan Rivers is dead.

Maybe Pam Geller can take over.

[Big Guy]

To Hudson Jones - You had posted earlier that you were challenging a post and commenting because, " ...you hate to see others reading lies".

I understand your position but please give credit to those who read these posts, either following them or in passing. I believe that posters here are generally intelligent people who read different posts and are quite sceptical of anything and everything that is posted. Experienced posters do give validity to information presented and sourced but with the numerous postings it is far easier to give validity based on the credibility of the poster presenting a view.

I have not participated on this board for a very long time but have already been able to decipher who is worth reading and responding to and who is not. Personally, I have been disappointed by many of these threads being hijacked by posters who appear to feel that this is a venue to promote Israeli foreign policy and condemn any criticism as anti-Semitic or Jew baiting or pi$$ing on Jews or spitting on Jews or whatever.

The strategy appears to be to inundate a thread with copious amounts of questionable rhetoric and to continue to try to discourage any criticism by attacking the integrity of the critic.

These radicals are not convincing anybody of anything. If they are having any effect it is to turn away any support for their cause and agenda through their aggressive, negative and insulting rhetoric. People do have a tendency to associate an issue with the individual and these folks are certainly turning people off support for Israel. So be it.

Oh, I'll save them a comment post; Big Guy is an ignorant anti-Semite, clueless of anything that is happening in the Middle East, a mouthpiece for Hamas, Hezbolla, and Palestinian radicals. He supports terrorists, pi$$es on Israel, spits on Jews, wants Israel destroyed, wants the world to be run by Muslims and probably has bad breath. There, I think I have covered most of your views although I do trust you will point out additional flaws if/when you choose. See, I do get it! That is why I no longer have to read their posts.

Hudson, give the other posters the credit for some intelligence.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Big Guy

[Rue]

Never have I said (or meant) that Zionists, Jews, Arabs, Muslims, etc. should be wiped out when I have said that Zionism and Wahabism, which are ideologies, should be wiped out.

Stop crying about things that don't exist.

Right. So how do you wipe out Zionism without wiping out its followers? You really want to play semantics at this point? Really?

[Hudson Jones]

Right. So how do you wipe out Zionism without wiping out its followers? You really want to play semantics at this point? Really?

How do we wipe out racism, without killing racists?

How do we wipe out rape, without killing rapists?

How do we wipe out Zionism, without killing Zionists?

[Rue]

To Hudson Jones - You had posted earlier that you were challenging a post and commenting because, " ...you hate to see others reading lies".

I understand your position but please give credit to those who read these posts, either following them or in passing. I believe that posters here are generally intelligent people who read different posts and are quite sceptical of anything and everything that is posted. Experienced posters do give validity to information presented and sourced but with the numerous postings it is far easier to give validity based on the credibility of the poster presenting a view.

I have not participated on this board for a very long time but have already been able to decipher who is worth reading and responding to and who is not. Personally, I have been disappointed by many of these threads being hijacked by posters who appear to feel that this is a venue to promote Israeli foreign policy and condemn any criticism as anti-Semitic or Jew baiting or pi$$ing on Jews or spitting on Jews or whatever.

The strategy appears to be to inundate a thread with copious amounts of questionable rhetoric and to continue to try to discourage any criticism by attacking the integrity of the critic.

These radicals are not convincing anybody of anything. If they are having any effect it is to turn away any support for their cause and agenda through their aggressive, negative and insulting rhetoric. People do have a tendency to associate an issue with the individual and these folks are certainly turning people off support for Israel. So be it.

Oh, I'll save them a comment post; Big Guy is an ignorant anti-Semite, clueless of anything that is happening in the Middle East, a mouthpiece for Hamas, Hezbolla, and Palestinian radicals. He supports terrorists, pi$$es on Israel, spits on Jews, wants Israel destroyed, wants the world to be run by Muslims and probably has bad breath. There, I think I have covered most of your views although I do trust you will point out additional flaws if/when you choose. See, I do get it! That is why I no longer have to read their posts.

Hudson, give the other posters the credit for some intelligence.

Hudson, give the other posters the credit for some intelligence.

Oh yes. You mean like telling me wiping out Zionism does not mean wiping out Zionist Jews. Lol.

Your last post tries to make this thread and the forum all about you and your feelings and who you feel is intelligent.

How about you debate the issues.

[Hudson Jones]

Hudson, give the other posters the credit for some intelligence.

I do give credit and know that many on here realize the false narratives. However, it's also important to call these people on it and to make sure that we don't allow misinformation to drown out the truth.

[Rue]

How do we wipe out racism, without killing racists?

How do we wipe out rape, without killing rapists?

How do we wipe out Zionism, without killing Zionists?

No I only asked the third question. Now please answer it.

How do you intend to wipe out Zionism but not wipe out Zionist Jews ? Please explain.

You can discuss who else you intend to kill on other threads.

[Rue]

I do give credit and know that many on here realize the false narratives. However, it's also important to call these people on it and to make sure that we don't allow misinformation to drown out the truth.

Right. Now you and Big Guy are protectors of the truth on this forum. That's wonderful but your comments presuming you are righteous and protector of the truth is silly. People do not have to agree with either of you. You do not have a monoooly on truth, integrity, or morality contrary to what you two may believe. Both of you need to stop talking about yourselfs and your virtues and deal with the issues.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Rue

[Big Guy]

I have no monopoly on truth, integrity or morality. I have no interest in protecting the truth (truth tends to endure on its own) nor do I have any more interest in reading more about your views. They have been consistent again and again and again and ... I am pretty sure that I understand what and how you think by now so please do not waste any more of your time trying to convince me of anything.

Thanks for your efforts, I have found it a learning experience.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Big Guy

[Hudson Jones]

No I only asked the third question. Now please answer it.

How do you intend to wipe out Zionism but not wipe out Zionist Jews ? Please explain.

You can discuss who else you intend to kill on other threads.

I don't care if you only asked the third question. I am giving you an example of what a harmful ideology is and why asking to wipe out a bad ideology does not equate to killing people. Because you don't seem to get it or want to, once again, play the victim by trying to change the meaning of what someone is saying.

Any bad idea, especially harmful ones like Zionism, Wahabism, Fascism, etc. should be talked about, rejected and anyone who practices it should be called out. Educating the masses is part of the process of rejecting it and wiping it out.

Rejection to Zionism is already happening. The BDS movement is one of the tools, working in conjunction with other methods and tools in rejecting Zionism. Once it is no longer sustainable for Israel to continue what it is doing, and people outside of Israel can no longer defend a racist, inhumane ideology, then it will slowly fade and they will be forced to change.

What I see in the future, is one day you will see isolated marches by small groups of Zionists in the streets like you see with the KKK or Nazis. But the thought of a country practicing it, will never happen again.

[bush_cheney2004]

How do we wipe out racism, without killing racists?

How do we wipe out rape, without killing rapists?

How do we wipe out Zionism, without killing Zionists?

How do we "wipe out" terrorism without killing terrorists ?

[On Guard for Thee]

How do we "wipe out" terrorism without killing terrorists ?

Yes of course, more killing will be good. That will solve everything.

[Rue]

I don't care if you only asked the third question. I am giving you an example of what a harmful ideology is and why asking to wipe out a bad ideology does not equate to killing people. Because you don't seem to get it or want to, once again, play the victim by trying to change the meaning of what someone is saying.

Any bad idea, especially harmful ones like Zionism, Wahabism, Fascism, etc. should be talked about, rejected and anyone who practices it should be called out. Educating the masses is part of the process of rejecting it and wiping it out.

Rejection to Zionism is already happening. The BDS movement is one of the tools, working in conjunction with other methods and tools in rejecting Zionism. Once it is no longer sustainable for Israel to continue what it is doing, and people outside of Israel can no longer defend a racist, inhumane ideology, then it will slowly fade and they will be forced to change.

What I see in the future, is one day you will see isolated marches by small groups of Zionists in the streets like you see with the KKK or Nazis. But the thought of a country practicing it, will never happen again.

Your response above shows you will not answer the question and try talk around it.

You have come on this forum three times now and stated Zionism is a cancer to be wiped out.

Others on this forum defended you and denied your words mean killing Zionist Jews. At one point Michael Harder told me, produce your words, when I did, he did not come back and say to me well, that doesn't mean wiping out Zionist Jews and then give me his reason why...in fact no one has who defended you.

Now I asked you a simple question. I asked, how do you intend to wipe out Zionism without wiping out Zionist Jews? Its a very simple question.

Your actual answer to that was:

Hudson Jones, on 20 Nov 2014 - 8:42 PM, said:

How do we wipe out racism, without killing racists?

How do we wipe out rape, without killing rapists?

How do we wipe out Zionism, without killing Zionists?

I then staetd that the above answer did not answer the question and asked you to answer the third question which is the only one I asked you.

Other then the above questions you posed you now have provided a response that stated:

"I don't care if you only asked the third question. I am giving you an example of what a harmful ideology is and why asking to wipe out a bad ideology does not equate to killing people."

Interesting youin fact did not give an example of how wiping out a "bad" ideology does not equate to killing people. In fact you did the exact opposite. No where in your words did you provide an example of how you wipe out an ideology without wiping out the people who believe in that ideology.

What you did state was:

"Any bad idea, especially harmful ones like Zionism, Wahabism, Fascism, etc. should be talked about, rejected and anyone who practices it should be called out. Educating the masses is part of the process of rejecting it and wiping it out.

Go on Hudson Jones finish it. What does "called out" mean? What does "educating the masses is part of the process" means? and why is it only "part" and what are the other "parts"?

What is the other part you won't talk about? Why would you only discuss one part?

So what happens when you call all of Israel's Jewish citizens out and they don't agree with you and want to stop being Jewish citizens in a Jewish state?

What happens after you "educate" them and they won't give up their citizenship? What's the next part? Finish what you started Hudson Jones. You said education and calling the Jews of Israel out is only one part. What else?

well? You stated you will wipe them out like cancer. Go on finish it. What does that mean? Will you perform chemotherapy en masse on the Israelis? Do you want to radiate them all or will you cut them out like a tumour by and dispose of them in the garbage? Well?

You want to keep playing with words Hudson Jones?

Keep digging the hole Hudson Jones. The more you respond the deeper the hole of absurdity gets.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Rue

[Rue]

That's what the America's PalestIndians said about imperialism ideology as well. How'd that work out ? All the Zionists need is a queen !

Elton John is taken. We are thinking of Harvey Fierstein.

[Rue]

Yes of course, more killing will be good. That will solve everything.

Well then what do you intend to do with the citizens of Israel when Hudson Jones finishes his education seminar and they won't renounce their citizenship?

Unlike you, Bush does not beat around the Bush. He's American. They tend to be direct about killing unless of course they are Obama, then they have ISIS do it for them until that doesn't work, then her asks other nations.

Me I preferred Bush in that respect. He may have done a lot of things wrong, but he never pretended to not be killing anyone and trying to couch himself as a progressive peace loving liberal like Obama.

See when Obama played his progressive liberal tune, he has no problem sitting and watching a gay ambassador get sodomized to death by his Muslim Brotherhood buddies. or watch Ghaddafi get killed by a mob nor did he have a problem with Coptic Christians dying, Sudanese Christians dying nor does he see any problem with Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran because you know such people don't kill. They just educate and call people out.

[Hudson Jones]

Your response above shows you will not answer the question and try talk around it.

You have come on this forum three times now and stated Zionism is a cancer to be wiped out.

Others on this forum defended you and denied your words mean killing Zionist Jews. At one point Michael Harder told me, produce your words, when I did, he did not come back and say to me well, that doesn't mean wiping out Zionist Jews and then give me his reason why...in fact no one has who defended you.

Now I asked you a simple question. I asked, how do you intend to wipe out Zionism without wiping out Zionist Jews? Its a very simple question.

Your actual answer to that was:

Hudson Jones, on 20 Nov 2014 - 8:42 PM, said:

How do we wipe out racism, without killing racists?

How do we wipe out rape, without killing rapists?

How do we wipe out Zionism, without killing Zionists?

I then staetd that the above answer did not answer the question and asked you to answer the third question which is the only one I asked you.

Other then the above questions you posed you now have provided a response that stated:

"I don't care if you only asked the third question. I am giving you an example of what a harmful ideology is and why asking to wipe out a bad ideology does not equate to killing people."

Interesting youin fact did not give an example of how wiping out a "bad" ideology does not equate to killing people. In fact you did the exact opposite. No where in your words did you provide an example of how you wipe out an ideology without wiping out the people who believe in that ideology.

What you did state was:

"Any bad idea, especially harmful ones like Zionism, Wahabism, Fascism, etc. should be talked about, rejected and anyone who practices it should be called out. Educating the masses is part of the process of rejecting it and wiping it out.

Go on Hudson Jones finish it. What does "called out" mean? What does "educating the masses is part of the process" means? and why is it only "part" and what are the other "parts"?

What is the other part you won't talk about? Why would you only discuss one part?

So what happens when you call all of Israel's Jewish citizens out and they don't agree with you and want to stop being Jewish citizens in a Jewish state?

What happens after you "educate" them and they won't give up their citizenship? What's the next part? Finish what you started Hudson Jones. You said education and calling the Jews of Israel out is only one part. What else?

well? You stated you will wipe them out like cancer. Go on finish it. What does that mean? Will you perform chemotherapy en masse on the Israelis? Do you want to radiate them all or will you cut them out like a tumour by and dispose of them in the garbage? Well?

You want to keep playing with words Hudson Jones?

Keep digging the hole Hudson Jones. The more you respond the deeper the hole of absurdity gets.

I gave you an answer in the same quote that you replied, but you seem to have issues reading:

Any bad idea, especially harmful ones like Zionism, Wahabism, Fascism, etc. should be talked about, rejected and anyone who practices it should be called out. Educating the masses is part of the process of rejecting it and wiping it out.

Rejection to Zionism is already happening. The BDS movement is one of the tools, working in conjunction with other methods and tools in rejecting Zionism. Once it is no longer sustainable for Israel to continue what it is doing, and people outside of Israel can no longer defend a racist, inhumane ideology, then it will slowly fade and they will be forced to change.