Argus Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I think if I was a cop, especially in the US where they probably shoot one of these lone wolf wacko's on a daily basis, I'd feel rather slighted. No big fanfare for them, just a bunch of paperwork to fill out. It will be especially interesting if/when the autopsy reveals that Vickers shot a corpse. Ya think? They're still holding hearings and reports into how one lone wolf wacko managed to run into the White House, and he didn't even have a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Ok, Vickers shot the guy and saved the day BUT IF it wasn't for the security guard at the door and tried to get the gun away and was shot, and that shot alerted Vickers, perhaps someone else would have killed the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Ok, Vickers shot the guy and saved the day BUT IF it wasn't for the security guard at the door and tried to get the gun away and was shot, and that shot alerted Vickers, perhaps someone else would have killed the guy. Sure, which is why he's been very careful to give credit for the entire time each and every time he's responded to questions on the event. But we, as people, find it easier to give our congratulations to one hero rather than a large group of faceless people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted November 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Be nice to see the existing video of what really happened so we would not have to speculate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Be nice to see the existing video of what really happened so we would not have to speculate. Your curiosity/need to know is of paramount importance. Unfortunately the media and government generally don't distribute videos of people getting violently killed because, well, it's generally not necessary, sensitive or particularly civilized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted November 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 My bad. Of course we never see people getting shot on TV and should be protected from that kind of violence. So the opinion boards will continue to have threads where we will continue to speculate based on our political leanings and whatever rumours or government explanations you believe. If we can't trust our politicians and bureaucrats and spy services to tell us the truth then who can we trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 My bad. Of course we never see people getting shot on TV and should be protected from that kind of violence. So the opinion boards will continue to have threads where we will continue to speculate based on our political leanings and whatever rumours or government explanations you believe. There really isn't much "speculation" at all. What is there to speculate about here really ? If you think that there's something suspicious afoot, I would say that you are giving more evidence that releasing videos would do nothing to convince the unconvinceable. If we can't trust our politicians and bureaucrats and spy services to tell us the truth then who can we trust? Conspiracy theorists trust no one, except maybe Alex Jones - a guy who stirs the conspiracy pot for great personal gain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted November 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) I am no conspiracy theorist - I would like to think of myself as pragmatic based on longitudinal data. Spy agencies do not provide information to the public voluntarily. Whatever information is released it is politically driven or (if forced to disclose through FIA ) redacted to the point of illegibility. Bureaucrats operate in a similar matter. Politicians will just lie directly to satisfy an agenda. It is not a conspiracy, it is a distrust and contempt for the public. It is the arrogance that comes with being in a position being able to decide what the public can handle and what it can not or what it should know and what it should not. As to speculation, a number of posters on this site and others, have disagreed as to when the individual was shot, who killed him, what he said or did not say while dying, did Vickers deserve the accolades etc. The video may or may not answer those questions. But now we will never know for sure. If you are satisfied by that and accept the explanation for why it is not going to be released then that is your choice. It is not mine. Edited November 17, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 It is not a conspiracy, it is a distrust and contempt for the public. It is the arrogance that comes with being in a position being able to decide what the public can handle and what it can not or what it should know and what it should not. If you believe that official secrets are necessary, then you should understand the need to keep a video of an attack under wraps as much as possible. As to speculation, a number of posters on this site and others, have disagreed as to when the individual was shot, who killed him, what he said or did not say while dying, did Vickers deserve the accolades etc. The video may or may not answer those questions. But now we will never know for sure. If you are satisfied by that and accept the explanation for why it is not going to be released then that is your choice. It is not mine. Determining whether Vickers "deserves the accolades" doesn't outweigh the public value of keeping security breaches private. If that's the only value then I'm very safe in my opinion here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Vickers fired the deadly shot. Just more nonsense from the left to confuse the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Vickers fired the deadly shot. Just more nonsense from the left to confuse the facts. Why the 'left' ? Is there anything on this earth that doesn't have to get divided by right and left ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Vickers fired the deadly shot. Just more nonsense from the left to confuse the facts. Oh so you've seen the video already? Naw, I think I'll wait for the autopsy report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Just going by what was said, that he moved, that Vickers could take a shot. Dead people don't move. And why would they lie about who took him out and who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I just find all this fanfare over the shooting of a suicidal crack addict a bit over the top, or "crass" as someone else on here described it. Why do we need a hero in such a case and what if it turns out that it was actually a young Mountie firing the fatal shot as eyewitness accounts have claimed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Why the 'left' ? Is there anything on this earth that doesn't have to get divided by right and left ? Sure, but generally speaking the Left is reflexively suspicious of the police and military, and, of course, of this conservative government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Why do we need a hero in such a case and what if it turns out that it was actually a young Mountie firing the fatal shot as eyewitness accounts have claimed? Cite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Cite. http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/on-a-multitude-of-shots-inside-parliament/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 So no one knows, and what he did was brave. That really supports what you said...oh wait, no it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 So no one knows, and what he did was brave. That really supports what you said...oh wait, no it doesn't. Nothing to do? Maybe you should re-read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Sure, but generally speaking the Left is reflexively suspicious of the police and military, and, of course, of this conservative government. Is it the 'left' as in the NDP or... who exactly ? There are people on this board who seem to make this about Harper - for some reason - but are they 'the left' or are they just ... I don't know what ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Nothing to do? Maybe you should re-read. It doesn't say what you're saying. You should reread it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/on-a-multitude-of-shots-inside-parliament/ That's not a conspiracy. That's just wondering whose shot wound up being the fatal shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Is it the 'left' as in the NDP or... who exactly ? There are people on this board who seem to make this about Harper - for some reason - but are they 'the left' or are they just ... I don't know what ... This is a disingenuous question, Michael. You know very well who are the Left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 To Michael - "... I'm very safe in my opinion here". I hope that everyone on this board feels very safe in their opinions - after all, it is THEIR opinions. I believe that I can summarize our differences in opinion; You believe in national security and the ability of the our government to objectively use national security as the reason to not disclose certain information. I believe in national security but do not trust individuals in our government to use that objectively. I believe that the individuals in our government withhold a whole lot of information from the public that has nothing to do with national security and a whole lot to do with covering incompetence, mistakes and allowing for political spin. I think I understand and do respect your position and your right to hold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 This is a disingenuous question, Michael. You know very well who are the Left. Ok, so the NDP is saying that Kevin Vickers didn't fire the shot ? Forgive me as I'm not up on this "scandal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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