On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Um ... could you try not to scare them even more? . Point taken. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 As a repeated course of conduct known to be unwelcome ... yes. Exactly, so you'd agree that the range is pretty wide. Yet, you talk as if all men are sex offenders that should be locked up. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Bonam Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Has there ever been even one thread on MLW about any gender-related issue that had anything approaching meaningful discussion? All I ever see is the usual suspects parroting the usual far left talking points. Never mind the absurdity of pretending that a freaking MP, who holds more power than the vast majority of Canadians (whether male or female), would be too intimidated to come out with an accusation. These people are freaking politicians, they're barely even human, and their sole function is to fling insults and accusations at other MPs. Quote
Argus Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 ...and I know women who have sexually harassed and assaulted....by women....ditto for male perps and victims. I knew a very politically correct young lady at work once. She was outraged that a manager spent all his time while she was helping him pack up his office staring at her legs (wearing a shortish kilt), and complained to HR. The same young lady had her butt grabbed by a fortysometing 'diesel dyke' lesbian in the supply room and had no idea what to say about that. She wasn't happy but certainly didn't complain to HR. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Which rock have you been living under? Of course women have a hard time coming forward. They know that the court system is a stacked gauntlet they don't want to run. There is no evidence whatsoever that the court system is stacked against women making a report. Quite the contrary, in fact. As has been noted, women are treated with kid gloves by all and sundry, as if they were delicate little things, not children, but not really adults. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Hal 9000 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Has there ever been even one thread on MLW about any gender-related issue that had anything approaching meaningful discussion? All I ever see is the usual suspects parroting the usual far left talking points. Never mind the absurdity of pretending that a freaking MP, who holds more power than the vast majority of Canadians (whether male or female), would be too intimidated to come out with an accusation. These people are freaking politicians, they're barely even human, and their sole function is to fling insults and accusations at other MPs. Well said! Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Michael Hardner Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 I knew a very politically correct young lady at work once. She was outraged that a manager spent all his time while she was helping him pack up his office staring at her legs (wearing a shortish kilt), and complained to HR. The same young lady had her butt grabbed by a fortysometing 'diesel dyke' lesbian in the supply room and had no idea what to say about that. She wasn't happy but certainly didn't complain to HR. Maybe she had given up on the idea of getting some resolution from HR. This idea that you're entitled to stare at women at your pleasure based on how they're dressed was thrown out in the Mad Men era. Presumably the workplace has a dress code, and assuming she didn't come in wearing a bra and panties, or a Spongebob Squarepants outfit then staring isn't acceptable. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Argus Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Maybe she had given up on the idea of getting some resolution from HR. This idea that you're entitled to stare at women at your pleasure based on how they're dressed was thrown out in the Mad Men era. Presumably the workplace has a dress code, and assuming she didn't come in wearing a bra and panties, or a Spongebob Squarepants outfit then staring isn't acceptable. The aforementioned manager was dispatched to Treasury Board for various projects, not merely because of this incident but various 'staring' incidents. I think HR would come down pretty hard on anyone grabbing a girl's butt, but the girl in question didn't want to be seen as attacking a lesbian, especially a married (to another woman) lesbian. As for clothing, yes, the kilt was a little short, and the pants on the butt-grabbing day were pretty tight. But that's not really relevant in terms of behaviour. With regard to this girl and a few others during my work time with the government, I took my advice from Jerry Seinfeld. When looking at the sun, you never stare. You get a glimpse and then look away. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 There is no evidence whatsoever that the court system is stacked against women making a report. Quite the contrary, in fact. As has been noted, women are treated with kid gloves by all and sundry, as if they were delicate little things, not children, but not really adults. There is all kinds of evidence that proves just how stacked it is against them. Why do you think they enacted the "Rape Shield" law? If I was formally accused I go to court with a lawyer and am forced to say nothing. She goes to court without a lawyer and must prove beyond a reasonable doubt while my lawyer pokes and prods at her sexual history, what clothes she likes to wear, and various other crap that is allowed but that has nothing to do with the event in question. Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 So you don't like our system of innocent until proven guilty. What would you prefer? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Well said! OK, if you think that's well said, I can see there is no sense saying anything more. Accept perhaps to remind you for your own edification that a "freaking politician" is actually human (I know the far right don't like to grasp that fact) and they have to go to the same "freaking court" as any other human with a formal complaint. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 So you don't like our system of innocent until proven guilty. What would you prefer? I do like it. What's your point? Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 These people are freaking politicians, they're barely even human, and their sole function is to fling insults and accusations at other MPs.Totally reasonable position coming from someone complaining that the discussion is not very reasonable. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 the girl in question didn't want to be seen as attacking a lesbianYou read people's minds? Amazing. I thought that was something you only find in fiction. Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 I do like it. What's your point? That it should be on the Crown and the accuser to make their point, and not on the accused. Quote
Argus Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 There is all kinds of evidence that proves just how stacked it is against them. Why do you think they enacted the "Rape Shield" law? If I was formally accused I go to court with a lawyer and am forced to say nothing. She goes to court without a lawyer and must prove beyond a reasonable doubt while my lawyer pokes and prods at her sexual history, what clothes she likes to wear, and various other crap that is allowed but that has nothing to do with the event in question. In any kind of disagreement where there is one person's word against another person's word, it inevitably boils down to the integrity and believability of the two persons. Her lawyer is the Crown, btw, who is determined to send you to prison. Your lawyer is either sucking your wallet dry, or an overworked, less experienced defense attorney who probably isn't very good at his or her job. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 You read people's minds? Amazing. I thought that was something you only find in fiction. I knew the girl in question fairly well. Do you find that astounding, for some reason? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) That it should be on the Crown and the accuser to make their point, and not on the accused. Yes I quite understand the theory. However in these types of cases what the accused's lawyer usually does, is focus on character assassination of the accuser. That can often be done by suggestive questioning that has little or nothing to do with the case, especially in a jury situation. Hence the reason many women don't come forward. Edited November 22, 2014 by On Guard for Thee Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Yes I quite understand the theory. However in these types of cases what the accused's lawyer usually does, is focus on character assassination of the accuser. That can often be done by suggestive questioning that has little or nothing to do with the case, especially in a jury situation. Hence the reason many women don't come forward. Except that the woman's past and behaviour are very relevant to her credibility. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Except that the woman's past and behaviour are very relevant to her credibility. Whether she likes to wear mini skirts or how many sex partners she has had in her life are not at all relevant. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 In any kind of disagreement where there is one person's word against another person's word, it inevitably boils down to the integrity and believability of the two persons. Her lawyer is the Crown, btw, who is determined to send you to prison. Your lawyer is either sucking your wallet dry, or an overworked, less experienced defense attorney who probably isn't very good at his or her job. Oh, you think Jian Ghomeshi can't afford a pretty good lawyer? Or how about Bill Cosby? And BTW, if I'm the accused I don't have to say anything. It's her word against my lawyers. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 OK, if you think that's well said, I can see there is no sense saying anything more. Accept perhaps to remind you for your own edification that a "freaking politician" is actually human (I know the far right don't like to grasp that fact) and they have to go to the same "freaking court" as any other human with a formal complaint. I think you're missing the fact that Bonam said "barely human". Seriously though, I think the point is; you don't reach that high of level in politics without having a certain personality type accompanied by some very thick skin. These women in politics are not meek wallflowers afraid of they boss, they're not affected by personal comments toward them or their families - otherwise they would never have made it to where they are. Politicians are "A' types with huge ego's. I know it's popular to tow the "helpless woman" line, but don't be fooled these people are almost reptilian. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Hal 9000 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Whether she likes to wear mini skirts or how many sex partners she has had in her life are not at all relevant. Are we still talking about sexual harassment, or have you guys drifted into the rape topic again? I like to know because sometimes the answers are different. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 It's the everyday people I'm concerned about. I doubt you'd be ok with an innocent man going to prison for something he didn't do. Only put there because of a vengeful ex who was scorned and she happens to be a good actor. Just like I'm not OK with a woman being raped and/or assaulted and some guy walking away scott free. Which do you imagine occurs more often? Before you haul off and answer that with yet another baseless assumption, consider why the Rape Shield law was brought into being. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 It's the everyday people I'm concerned about. I doubt you'd be ok with an innocent man going to prison for something he didn't do. Only put there because of a vengeful ex who was scorned and she happens to be a good actor. How many who rape and assault walk free because they're never accused versus the wrongful convictions? You going to provide stats for that yet or are you still in the business of making things up that sound good to you? Quote
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