2 more liberal MP's gone.

hitops · November 24, 2014

I'm not the one who thinks my experiences are generalizable to everyone. You are. The opportunities you have in situations aren't the same as everyone else. That's the problem with your logic. If you don't care to understand it, continue buring your head in the sand and acting baffled when others don't or aren't able to do what you would do.

I make the opportunities I have. I was poor once, now I'm not. My family lived in India once, started out very modestly, and now are very secure. Liberals in western countries are so annoying and actually arrogant. I think it's because they are actually just lazy, both in thinking and in action.

Woman have more rights here, more opportunities than nearly anywhere in the world. The court system actually functions and cannot often be bought. Rambling on about workplace harassment won't make a court of law hire mind-readers to scour the country and pluck out all women who've been victims and make a case on their behalf. Those woman have to actually do something to initiate the process. This is......just like every single other breathing human in the nation who wants to address a grievance of some kind.

Edited November 24, 2014 by hitops

On Guard for Thee · November 24, 2014

Yep that tide of 'frivolous character assassination ' turned in a heartbeat for the two people suspended from caucus.

No the tide turning began with Ghomeshi, and most recently with Cosby.

cybercoma · November 25, 2014

I make the opportunities I have. I was poor once, now I'm not. My family lived in India once, started out very modestly, and now are very secure. Liberals in western countries are so annoying and actually arrogant. I think it's because they are actually just lazy, both in thinking and in action.Woman have more rights here, more opportunities than nearly anywhere in the world. The court system actually functions and cannot often be bought. Rambling on about workplace harassment won't make a court of law hire mind-readers to scour the country and pluck out all women who've been victims and make a case on their behalf. Those woman have to actually do something to initiate the process. This is......just like every single other breathing human in the nation who wants to address a grievance of some kind.

oh look, a rant that proves exactly my point. People like you can't get it through your skull that your experiences aren't generalizable. Thanks for making it clearer.

On Guard for Thee · November 25, 2014

I make the opportunities I have. I was poor once, now I'm not. My family lived in India once, started out very modestly, and now are very secure. Liberals in western countries are so annoying and actually arrogant. I think it's because they are actually just lazy, both in thinking and in action.

Woman have more rights here, more opportunities than nearly anywhere in the world. The court system actually functions and cannot often be bought. Rambling on about workplace harassment won't make a court of law hire mind-readers to scour the country and pluck out all women who've been victims and make a case on their behalf. Those woman have to actually do something to initiate the process. This is......just like every single other breathing human in the nation who wants to address a grievance of some kind.

Mind readers, buying the court system, you don't like Liberals so they must all be lazy? Do you have any valid points to make or are you just joking with us?

Keepitsimple · November 25, 2014

I make the opportunities I have. I was poor once, now I'm not. My family lived in India once, started out very modestly, and now are very secure. Liberals in western countries are so annoying and actually arrogant. I think it's because they are actually just lazy, both in thinking and in action.

Woman have more rights here, more opportunities than nearly anywhere in the world. The court system actually functions and cannot often be bought. Rambling on about workplace harassment won't make a court of law hire mind-readers to scour the country and pluck out all women who've been victims and make a case on their behalf. Those woman have to actually do something to initiate the process. This is......just like every single other breathing human in the nation who wants to address a grievance of some kind.

Yes - there's a lot to be thankful for.....something that newer Canadians have more appreciation for.

PIK · November 25, 2014

Everybody is a victim these days.

Smallc · November 25, 2014

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/6216184?utm_hp_ref=tw

So...she didn't say no, and suddenly he's practically a rapist.

Argus · November 25, 2014

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/6216184?utm_hp_ref=tw

So...she didn't say no, and suddenly he's practically a rapist.

It's a dilemma, sorting out these things without having been there, listening to two different statements, as often as not by people who were drinking at the time.

The time honored cliche is still pretty much in place: It's the job of men to initiate sex, and the job of women to consent or decline. Consent is often enough simply the absence of any active refusal, by word or deed.

I have to note with doubt the statement that she had no idea being asked up to his hotel room for a drink had any suggestion of a further meaning, and that she was amazed that he actually had a sexual interest in her. I also note she said nothing about refusing or attempting to refuse, nothing about protests or any other indication she might have given him at the time that his attention was unwelcome.

A sensitive man will detect a lack of enthusiasm, but not all men are sensitive to such things, especially when they've had a few. And I'm afraid I'm a great believer in women being adults, not helpless children. In the absence of her making any kind of verbal or physical effort to restrain him the only problem I see with his behaviour is that he's married.

She, on the other hand, comes off as spineless and whiny.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Argus

Smallc · November 25, 2014

Yes, his behavoiur is abhorrent, but, then, so is hers, based on this.

Argus · November 25, 2014

Yes, his behavoiur is abhorrent, but, then, so is hers, based on this.

As I said, I'm a great believer in women being adults, which suggests a certain strength of character, and being willing to stand up for yourself. That's particularly so where there is no suggestion of physical coercion, and where the other party has no other kind of power over her.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Argus

cybercoma · November 25, 2014

"I just don't understand why women don't stand up for themselves."

Well....

San Francisco man stabbed 9 times by man cat calling his girlfriend after asking him to "please just stop."

How many times are women verbally abused and how often do men get aggressive with them when women turn down their advances? As men, we have the privilege not to have to worry about a woman getting abusive if we turn her down. So it seems simple to just "have a spine" and stand up for yourself. However, it's rarely ever that simple for women, especially when people get more aggressive when they're drinking. A man who asked a cat caller to stop making remarks about his girlfriend was stabbed nine times. This is an extreme example, but the mentality is not. It's common place. A lot of men get violent and aggressive either verbally or physically when they're turned down. Women have to navigate this reality. Men generally don't. So it's a lot easier for us to look at the situation and wonder why these women don't do more to stand up for themselves.

Argus · November 25, 2014

"I just don't understand why women don't stand up for themselves."

Well....

San Francisco man stabbed 9 times by man cat calling his girlfriend after asking him to "please just stop."

Are you actually suggesting she was afraid an MP would murder her???

How many times are women verbally abused and how often do men get aggressive with them when women turn down their advances?

Too often. But that's the society we live in. Fear of a man getting verbally abusive if you say no is not a reason to consent, not if you're an adult. Pretty much all women start learning the politics of saying no when they're twelve years old. Sometimes the boy sulks, sometimes he bitches and whines, but rarely does it ever get past that. And we're talking about an MP, for Gods sakes, and I note she at no time suggested she was in fear of her life or that he menaced or threatened her in any way.

cybercoma · November 25, 2014

Are you actually suggesting she was afraid an MP would murder her???

Is creating strawmen your job? You put up so many of them that I'm starting to think you get paid for them.

Too often. But that's the society we live in.

No crap. That's the problem. Even if you're not one of these scum bags, you have to consider that women's experiences are tainted by them.

PIK · November 25, 2014

What she do change her mind after she slept with him? We better just stick with steve, so these 2 parties do not embarrass the country.

Edited November 25, 2014 by PIK

Topaz · November 25, 2014

Here a question, IF anything happens to any MP, like an attack of some type, but NOT at work or anything to do with their job, should the victim then go to the police rather than the leader of the party??

hitops · November 25, 2014

Yes - there's a lot to be thankful for.....something that newer Canadians have more appreciation for.

Exactly. When you come from somewhere without a functional system, without as many opportunities, you realize how absurd people are who claim victimhood in this system.

hitops · November 25, 2014

oh look, a rant that proves exactly my point. People like you can't get it through your skull that your experiences aren't generalizable. Thanks for making it clearer.

You're right, that experience is actually a lot harder than what most people go through, in particular those who grew up in Canada. It's incredibly how the loudest complainers can be those from a country where they have the most protections, best safety nets, etc.

Edited November 25, 2014 by hitops

overthere · November 25, 2014

She, on the other hand, comes off as spineless and whiny.

I have suspected a political setup from the beginning by the NDP, and her story does not dismiss that strong possibility.

On Guard for Thee · November 25, 2014

I have suspected a political setup from the beginning by the NDP, and her story does not dismiss that strong possibility.

You're actually suggesting an NDP mp went to JT and lied about what happened to her and a colleague for political reasons? I can't imagine a less likely possibility. Remember the old adage "paranoia will destroy ya"?

cybercoma · November 25, 2014

You're right, that experience is actually a lot harder than what most people go through, in particular those who grew up in Canada. It's incredibly how the loudest complainers can be those from a country where they have the most protections, best safety nets, etc.

But your argument is that it's not harder. Nobody faces any systemic barriers, is how your claim goes. So how can it be harder? That's a rhetorical question.

On Guard for Thee · November 25, 2014

Anyway I see the latest on Ghomeshi is he has dropped his suit against CBC and will have to pay their legal fees of 18k. Would be interesting to know tipped that scale. I wonder if he realized he was being sucked dry by a lawyer flogging an unwinable case.

cybercoma · November 25, 2014

I have suspected a political setup from the beginning by the NDP, and her story does not dismiss that strong possibility.

Right. Women just lie about being sexually assaulted because they're lying and conniving. It's not like any man would ever pressure a woman into having sex with him when she didn't want to. That's inconceivable. She must be a liar.

overthere · November 25, 2014

Right. Women just lie about being sexually assaulted because they're lying and conniving. It's not like any man would ever pressure a woman into having sex with him when she didn't want to. That's inconceivable. She must be a liar.

I can see you are only willing to consider one option. It's not surprising.

You've done a thorough analysis of all the facts available and reached a conclusion based on the evidence.

You're judge, jury and executioner of all men, as noted by your use of such inclusive terms as 'women' and 'any man'.

I'll stick to what has been stated so far, though of course it is impossible to assess anything done anonymously. Why would anybody who has been violently raped wait months, then take that information to a stranger who is not in law enforcement?

Hal 9000 · November 25, 2014

"A San Francisco man is recovering from multiple stab wounds after he was attacked in the Tenderloin District while defending his girlfriend."

We all now how painful that can be.

Hal 9000 · November 25, 2014

Is creating strawmen your job? You put up so many of them that I'm starting to think you get paid for them.

No crap. That's the problem. Even if you're not one of these scum bags, you have to consider that women's experiences are tainted by them.

It looks like you creating the straw man with this article. You want to see a dude get into a fight over his girlfriend - go to pretty much any night club in Canada on a saturday night.