Argus Posted October 29, 2014 Report Posted October 29, 2014 Interesting how everyone likes to portray these people as revolutionaries who only want to be left alone, but they're not at all immune to the temptation to mess around with 'the great satan' they all hate so much. http://www.canada.com/Mexicans+foiled+alleged+cyberattack+plot+against+granted+asylum+Canada/10332628/story.html Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted October 29, 2014 Report Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) The cyberwar has been going on for 10-15 years. Every nation has a group dedicated to hacking other foreign networks. But who in their right mind has a nuclear power plant connected to the Internet grid? It should be an isolated system. Edited October 29, 2014 by GostHacked Quote
Hudson Jones Posted October 29, 2014 Report Posted October 29, 2014 Hopefully they won't go as low as assassinating nuclear scientists. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
GostHacked Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 You can hack with an 8086? One used to be able to hack phone systems using the Cap'n Crunch whistle. Blowing the whistle into the phone allowed you free long distance calls. There is always a low tech solution for hacking high tech. Quote
Shady Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 Hopefully they won't go as low as assassinating nuclear scientists. I guess it's better than stoning women. Quote
Guest Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 One used to be able to hack phone systems using the Cap'n Crunch whistle. Blowing the whistle into the phone allowed you free long distance calls. There is always a low tech solution for hacking high tech. I seem to remember hearing about a way to hack cable tv channels using tinfoil wrapped around the cable, too. Something like that, anyway. It was a long time ago. Quote
eyeball Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Meanwhile... Pentagon Cyber Force Turns To Hackers To Meet Growing Demand Interesting how America likes to portray itself as a poor hard done by victim who only want to be left alone. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
marcus Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 I guess it's better than stoning women. Why stone to kill when you can just bomb schools and shelters and kill a bunch of people at the same time? Eh? Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Shady Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Why stone to kill when you can just bomb schools and shelters and kill a bunch of people at the same time? Eh? When you use schools and shelters as weapons depots, it's bound to happen. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Discussion quality ... lowering ... HJ referred to (I think) Israeli assassinations of nuclear scientists ... Shady responded with a reference to Iran condemning people to death by stoning ... which led to a tit-for-tat on Israel / Palestine with no information. Back to the OP ... is 'hacking' going to level the playing field for small countries engaging in espionage or cyber war ? There are lots of people on this board who know a lot about this topic, and I'd be interested to hear what they have to say. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Discussion quality ... lowering ... HJ referred to (I think) Israeli assassinations of nuclear scientists ... Shady responded with a reference to Iran condemning people to death by stoning ... which led to a tit-for-tat on Israel / Palestine with no information. Back to the OP ... is 'hacking' going to level the playing field for small countries engaging in espionage or cyber war ? There are lots of people on this board who know a lot about this topic, and I'd be interested to hear what they have to say. In a way yes it can level the battlefield. For example, there was a flaw in the USA's military GPS satellite system where someone can hack in with ease. This is how Iran was able to hack and hijack the drone the USA was flying over Iran. Not sure if that security vulnerability was ever fixed. With everything connected, it makes it easier for hacking to happen. Why would anyone in their right mind would allow nuclear plants to be connected to the Internet? If all it takes is to target a specific component (like the nuclear plant in Iran that was targeted, but alas it was not connected to the Internet) then you can render the whole plant useless and shut it down, or possible overload it and could possibly cause the plant to go into meltdown. A small country that knows what to do with hacking can cause a lot of damage. But they would have to hide their tracks as it can be traced back to the source (with some difficulty). But I imagine if the big guys like the USA, China, Russia, UK, Germany ect ect are all hacking other nations then you can bet the same is being done to them. If I can get into a few Pentagon servers I can really mess things up for them. But hopefully sensitive information is on isolated systems. City infrastructure is online and could be hacked. What can you do to a city like Toronto if you manage to shut down the rail lines and subway system? A small hack with large results. Edited October 31, 2014 by GostHacked Quote
Big Guy Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) This seems to go back to the question of a "fair" war. In the old days, any country that had a bigger and stronger military than another country had the power to use it and wielded that power to the benefit of its citizens. Then came the nuclear age and OOPS - any little country with "the bomb" all of a sudden became as powerful as the big nations and the big nations could not boss them around or "colonize" them and harvest their natural wealth. But these nuclear nations decided to put a stopper on any other nations getting the bomb - except for Israel who "stole" nuclear capability from the USA when it had turned its back (sic). The nuclear powers decided to try to make sure nobody else had that power. Iran saw what was going on and decided to try to create its own bomb so Israel could be challenged by some other country in the region. The USA said no, no, no, no. You are bad guys and you cannot be trusted with the bomb - so there. Meanwhile, the Nuclear nations, USA, United Kingdom, Russia, China, France, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel were very happy to keep anyone else from joining the nuclear table. The rest of the world saw what was going on and surmised that Israel and North Korea would not have lasted very long without having the protection of the threat of nuclear weapons. In the Middle East, countries saw that they could not build militaries to the size of the bigger countries, were not allowed to develop or steal the bomb looked elsewhere for power. Economic power came with oil. Small groups of angry people found that if you could round up a dozen of really pi$$ed, fairly intelligent people prepared to die for a cause, then you could take down a couple of skyscrapers in the capital of the most powerful nation in the world. Terrorism became the armament of choice for these small countries and groups which could not create large militaries to compete with the "big boys" resorted to terror and suicide bombers.. The big boys were now in trouble. With their great financial and technological advantage they could still not guarantee the safety of their citizens. The world has learned that you fight with what you got. The smart countries will try to find out and change what causes people to become volunteer martyrs. The dumb ones will continue to bomb, invade and thereby create even more people who are prepared to become volunteer martyrs. And our Canadian air fighters are now dropping bombs on guys in Toyota's and machine guns. When the families of those guys and those others civilians that we kill as "acceptable collateral action" later decide to join the fight we will again be "surprised" by yet another attack there and (unfortunately) here. I would not be surprised that at a later date, some of these bad guys are able to hack into our systems and turn our drones back on us. You fight with what you got. Edited October 31, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Michael Hardner Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 What can you do to a city like Toronto if you manage to shut down the rail lines and subway system? A small hack with large results. Scary thought. Even scarier that it's almost certain to happen at some point. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
marcus Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 When you use schools and shelters as weapons depots, it's bound to happen. When it has been proven that in most of the occasions when schools and shelters were hit by missiles and civilians were killed that they were not used by militants, then it's a war crime. Go ahead, apologize for war crimes again. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Discussion quality ... lowering ... HJ referred to (I think) Israeli assassinations of nuclear scientists ... Shady responded with a reference to Iran condemning people to death by stoning ... which led to a tit-for-tat on Israel / Palestine with no information. Back to the OP ... is 'hacking' going to level the playing field for small countries engaging in espionage or cyber war ? There are lots of people on this board who know a lot about this topic, and I'd be interested to hear what they have to say. How is it lowering the quality when we are discussing the reality of what each side is capable of doing? The original post was submitted to show some level of moral superiority by the West, but then it was shown that it's the West that lacks moral and ethical superiority by the examples given by Hudson and myself. On several occasions I have seen you trying to control the discussion and trying to censor what is being discussed. This is the wrong way to approach a debate. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Michael Hardner Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 On several occasions I have seen you trying to control the discussion and trying to censor what is being discussed. This is the wrong way to approach a debate. Sorry, but I am assigned the task of ensuring debates don't get off topic. I'm sure every discussion could be about Israel but really ... it's not. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Argus Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Posted October 31, 2014 This seems to go back to the question of a "fair" war. In the old days, any country that had a bigger and stronger military than another country had the power to use it and wielded that power to the benefit of its citizens. Then came the nuclear age and OOPS - any little country with "the bomb" all of a sudden became as powerful as the big nations and the big nations could not boss them around or "colonize" them and harvest their natural wealth. But these nuclear nations decided to put a stopper on any other nations getting the bomb - except for Israel who "stole" nuclear capability from the USA when it had turned its back (sic). The nuclear powers decided to try to make sure nobody else had that power. Iran saw what was going on and decided to try to create its own bomb so Israel could be challenged by some other country in the region. Well thank God (or Allah) for Iran, right, big boy!? And let's hope all the other poor, oppressed nations of the world like Nigeria, Venezuela, Sudan and Yemen soon clue into what's going on and get themselves loaded up with nukes, too! It'll be a far safer world when all of Africa, Asia, Latin America and the far east have nukes so those bastards in America and the West can't colonize them and steal their natural wealth! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Posted October 31, 2014 A small country that knows what to do with hacking can cause a lot of damage. The thing is that the world's great hackers rarely come from backwards nations with fifth rate educational systems. They're far more likely to live in Western countries and be organized, if at all, by western governments. There are exceptions, of course. China and Russia have spent enormous sums of money for many years doing their best to hack into every system on the planet, to some success (and no outraged, indignant complaints whatsoever except from the occasional western government. I mean, look at the situation of the OP. In order to find people capable of hacking into US systems, Venezuela, Iran and Cuba had to go to ---- MEXICO! I leave it to you what that says about their own education systems. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
marcus Posted November 1, 2014 Report Posted November 1, 2014 Sorry, but I am assigned the task of ensuring debates don't get off topic. I'm sure every discussion could be about Israel but really ... it's not. Most topics that discuss the middle east involve Israel. It's a big elephant. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Bob Macadoo Posted November 1, 2014 Report Posted November 1, 2014 The thing is that the world's great hackers rarely come from backwards nations with fifth rate educational systems. They're far more likely to live in Western countries and be organized, if at all, by western governments. There are exceptions, of course. China and Russia have spent enormous sums of money for many years doing their best to hack into every system on the planet, to some success (and no outraged, indignant complaints whatsoever except from the occasional western government.I mean, look at the situation of the OP. In order to find people capable of hacking into US systems, Venezuela, Iran and Cuba had to go to ---- MEXICO! I leave it to you what that says about their own education systems. You expected a hacking cartel to meet in Omaha NE? Quote
GostHacked Posted November 1, 2014 Report Posted November 1, 2014 I mean, look at the situation of the OP. In order to find people capable of hacking into US systems, Venezuela, Iran and Cuba had to go to ---- MEXICO! I leave it to you what that says about their own education systems. Thing is with globalization with an international standard, makes all these systems look and feel the same. So once you know one system, you know a lot about the other systems. Most hackers are learning through a self educated process of trial and error. We only use one form of TCP/IP in which all computers use to communicate with each other. Exploit that and you have the world in your hands. Quote
GostHacked Posted November 1, 2014 Report Posted November 1, 2014 Most topics that discuss the middle east involve Israel. It's a big elephant. Not every damn thread needs to talk about Israel. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted November 1, 2014 Report Posted November 1, 2014 Why would anyone in their right mind would allow nuclear plants to be connected to the Internet? If all it takes is to target a specific component (like the nuclear plant in Iran that was targeted, but alas it was not connected to the Internet) then you can render the whole plant useless and shut it down, or possible overload it and could possibly cause the plant to go into meltdown.That's 9/11 tinfoil hat talk.1) A nuclear plant is a business, it needs to be interconnected with the outside world for that purpose. 2) The safety functions of the plant are NOT connected to the internet.....and any maze paths that might exist are a labryinth. 3) There is no way to "overload" a plant to meltdown. Quote
GostHacked Posted November 1, 2014 Report Posted November 1, 2014 That's 9/11 tinfoil hat talk. 1) A nuclear plant is a business, it needs to be interconnected with the outside world for that purpose. 2) The safety functions of the plant are NOT connected to the internet.....and any maze paths that might exist are a labryinth. 3) There is no way to "overload" a plant to meltdown. 1 - It is a business, but it does not need to be connected to the Internet. 2 - Some functions are connected to the net. The article below states that as old analog equipment fails, it is replaced by modern computerized equipment. Which is prone to a virus attack in some form or another. 3 http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/is-germany-prepared-german-nuclear-plants-not-immune-to-security-risks-a-753158-3.html Digital Risk Experts are now convinced that the high-tech weapon was specifically developed to sabotage the Iranian nuclear program, which it did. Stuxnet delivered a blow to the idea that it is sufficient to disconnect critical infrastructure from the Internet. The worm spreads through USB sticks. Stuxnet is proof that there is also a digital residual risk. ---- IT experts worldwide have been electrified by the US Department of Homeland Security's successful attempt to use malicious code to hack into the control system of a large diesel backup generator. The engineers were able to overload the generator located at a test nuclear reactor in Idaho until it failed. Malignant software was also discovered in the equipment of several energy utilities. In February, for example, a cyber espionage campaign ("Night Dragon") against at least five international energy companies was uncovered. Ironically, the potential victims of such attacks are the newest nuclear power plants, such as the one in the northwestern Emsland region, which has digital control systems. Older reactors, on the other hand, are still being run with analog equipment. But computers are also being used more and more in the older plants, because spare parts for the outdated control technologies are getting hard to come by. 9/11 tin foil hat stuff? So Stuxnet was all in my head? Good to know. Nuke plants can and will be compromised. It's just a matter of time before a cyber attack on a plant kicks it offline, which will be enough of a wake up call if it does not go into meltdown. Quote
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