overthere Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 There are circumnstances where it is essential that it be clear as to identity. Getting a drivers license or passport photo. Testifying in court. Being required by a peace officer to identify yourself. Swearing a legal oath. Using your passport to travel. Taking an oath of citizenship would also require that officials be certain you are the correct person. Once they have established that you are who you claim to be, you can wear anything you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I have no idea who Mr. Canada(?) is. So how do these people contribute to the fabric of society in a way that strengthens Canada? Mr. Canada was your old user name here. I highly doubt there's more than one person who idolizes Franco and is scared of Muslims because he/she thinks they will decapitate him/her for being disabled. We're not idiots here, you know. We can look up old user posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scared.In.Canada Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 There is no such thing as ``voluntary slavery``, by definition slavery is not voluntary. If you want to join a travelling circus and get paid room and board only, no one is stopping you. You can also join a variety of religions or cults where you are part of a commune. It apalls me that no one will stand up for the abused women who are forced to wear this burqa by their men. They are only allowed to speak to women, never allowed to talk to men except husbands, forbidden to work, must have sex on demand and bear many sons against their will. Being repeatedly raped nightly. This is what I call slavery, what do you call it? This is what some Muslim men are doing to their women. And no one is helping the Muslim women because the yare afraid of the Muslim man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Ya it is. It's legally required to show your face in this instance (you can cover up again after), just like it is for things like being in court, .Go ask the Supreme Court why they dont think like you do. Fact is, you are wrong. If you are in court, you have the right to see the face of your accuser, or the face of witnesses. Nope, not as a rule. If you are swearing the oath, the subject of this thread, also required.Nope, just call it Bairds Law, not to be found in any REAL law in CDA. A police officer can demand you ... They can also ask anybody else in the car to do so if they feel they need to be identified, and that goes for anyone walking on the street as well. They need a cause of course, some degree of plausible suspicion just like anything. But the fact remains it is perfectly legal, totally reasonable for the normal functions of police work, and if you can't handle it you probably shouldn't be here. Nice catch with the 'need cause thing' You are catching on Edited October 22, 2014 by Guyser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Does this writing style sound familiar to anyone here?It does now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) No, not as a rule. Court ordered woman in the end, to remove veil. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/engy-abdelkader/to-veil-or-not-to-veil-in_b_4661953.html http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/01/13/woman_to_remove_niqab_to_testify_in_toronto_case.html Nice catch with the 'need cause thing' You are catching on Could have just said 'I am wrong'. Police can insist to identify you if and when needed, period. They cannot insist you live here, that's your choice. Nobody has claimed anyone can force you to uncover your face for any reason. They have said, correctly, that are several occasions where you do have to. That's part of living here. Edited October 22, 2014 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Fact is, I am not. Supreme Court rendered a split decision and sent it back. Trial judge ordered her to remove it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/engy-abdelkader/to-veil-or-not-to-veil-in_b_4661953.html So you agree with me, good ! (it wasnt split, it was 4-2 decision) Could have just said 'I am wrong'. Police can insist to identify you if and when needed, period. They cannot insist you live here, that's your choice.They can insist all the y want. They also have to have cause. Papers please is not cause. Edited October 22, 2014 by Guyser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Those people scare me. I cannot see their face and sometimes not even their eyes. Why do they seek to scare everyday normal Canadians. It seems to me that they do not seek to fit into Canada at all but alienate themselves from the very fabric that is Canada. I'd like to see someone here sucessfully agrue how these women wearing full body sacks are seeking to include themselves with the majority of Canada in their mannerisms, speech and dress. Does this writing style sound familiar to anyone here? Another poster asked what brought me to have these types of thoughts as I was posting to him. It seems that you post only to disagree with people. Islamic people are cutting peoples heads off with knives, there are many videos as proof of this online. I can post one if you need confirmation. In these videos the Islamic people are speaking on another language then screaming, then cutting off the head and holding it up. I can post some of these videos if you need to see them as proof. Please let me know. Islamic people are cutting peoples heads off in Europe now. It will not be long before it happens here in North America. Europe has open immigration as does North America so we are destined to have the same problems that Europe does. Islamification of Europe is a fact and it's coming here to North America as well. Yes, I am afraid. I am afraid because I am disabled and cannot defend against a gang of young Muslims who would want to kill me. Youth Muslim gangs are spreading across Europe and beating the groups that they disagree with, threatening to kill them. It's time for Canadians to be afraid. Welcome back Merlin! aka Mr. Canada. Edited October 22, 2014 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) So you agree with me, good ! (it wasnt split, it was 4-2 decision) They can insist all the y want. They also have to have cause. Papers please is not cause. Nobody has claimed it is. What we've claimed is that are instances where it is. It happens that this is true. Papers please is perfectly good cause - if those papers are your driver's license and registration because you committed a traffic violation. That is ENOUGH to require to be able to identify you. Stop distorting the issue. The fact is that in Canada you cannot abide by all legal requirements and situations with your face covered 100% of the time. There ARE instances it must be removed. If you can't abide by it, don't live here. Edited October 22, 2014 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 People should not be wearing sacks on their heads for any reason, particularly if they need to be identified. We have a cultural norm in the west of showing our faces, not just for identification purposes, but to properly socialize and correspond with each other in society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Should we also deport anyone that has a tatoo of the «anarchist» symbol? How about anyone over 5 piercings goes home? We're speaking of potential recruits to the Canadian family. So their attitudes should play a role in that. Fundamentalist religious attitudes which are violently at odds with Canadian values ought to be a strong reason to deny them citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Nobody has claimed it is.Your posting on this subject has been just shy of absolute...ergo the addition of 'with cause ' was a good one. Prior to that tho..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 People should not be wearing sacks on their heads for any reason, particularly if they need to be identified.Well...they can! We have a cultural norm in the west of showing our faces, not just for identification purposes, but to properly socialize and correspond with each other in society.We have a cultural norm in the west of hiding our faces behind makeup, surgery, wigs, sunglasses,full face guards,masks...... Uh oh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 IMO, and loosely based on my observations over the years, most of those people who have those red neck, isolationist attitudes tend to be those who have been "borned and raised" and never either bothered, or maybe had the opportunity, to venture much farther from home turf than beyond sight of the town hall. I'm not saying you can't be tolerant without traveling, but it sure helps. Or maybe they're just people who have strong values and aren't about to make excuses for retrogate social behaviour and beliefs based on the skin colouring of the individuals concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Your posting on this subject has been just shy of absolute...ergo the addition of 'with cause ' was a good one. Prior to that tho..... Guess that's why reading closely is good. All irrelevant though. It is a fact that you cannot both be a fully law abiding Canadian citizen, and also cover your face all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Well...they can! We have a cultural norm in the west of hiding our faces behind makeup, surgery, wigs, sunglasses,full face guards,masks...... None of which is a problem unless it impairs identifying you. Is there something about this principle you don't get? Talk about desperate red herrings.... If you wore a crazy wig and blackface, along with a big clownnose when seated for your driver's license picture, yes you would be required to remove. Edited October 22, 2014 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Well...they can! We have a cultural norm in the west of hiding our faces behind makeup, surgery, wigs, sunglasses,full face guards,masks...... Uh oh. Did I say they can't? Of course they can.... whether or not they should is the question. Your comparisons are asinine. None of them are even remotely the same. And if someone tried to wear a clown mask to a swearing-in ceremony then they should be forced to remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Did I say they can't? Of course they can.... whether or not they should is the question. Your comparisons are asinine. None of them are even remotely the same. And if someone tried to wear a clown mask to a swearing-in ceremony then they should be forced to remove it. And they would be. It's completely consistent. I concur these comparison are asinine. But he knows that..., he's just being a troll for troll's sake. Edited October 22, 2014 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 That's the crux of the feminist Muslim argument. They face oppressive barriers for being women AND for being Muslim. Even the most well-meaning Western women who claim they want to liberate Muslim women sometimes ignore that their faith is a major part of their identities. Yousafzai, who just won the Nobel Peace Prize, said her faith is extremely important to her views and mission. She wears a hijab. Women of faith can observe their faiths freely and without oppression. Western women trying to be white knights to Muslim women and free them from their spiritual observances is not only patronizing, but is a form of Western imperialism and ethnocentrism. How is it imperialism to want to preserve our own culture? It's not like we're going to their countries and demanding they dress and act like us. Women in Egypt will tell you it's very important to their faith to cut off their daughter's clitoris before she gets too old or she'll become a whore like western women. Are we supposed to respect that too? Or is it imperialist of us to ridicule and refuse them? To my view, the patronizing is being done by those liberals who make excuses for people whose conservative beliefs are far and away more hostile to liberal social views than the conservatives they rail against here. I'm not suggesting we ban the wearing of the hijab, but I am suggesting is that if applicants for citizenship exhibit fundamentalist views - which always go hand in hand with backward social views - we should deny them entry into Canada. We have plenty of potential immigrants to choose from. Why choose these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I agree with you, however this ideology is nowhere near «taking root» in any western country Have a look at Sweden one of these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I wouldn't do business with someone if I couldn't see their face. A lot of communication comes from expressions, eyes, etc. It's completely inappropriate to wear a mask when trying to communicate with people. The face coverings do not allow these women to fully participate in society. It's sad and pathetic and is an ugly part of the culture of the places where it occurs. Canada should not be one of those places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 All irrelevant though. It is a fact that you cannot both be a fully law abiding Canadian citizen, and also cover your face all the time.Sure you can ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 None of which is a problem unless it impairs identifying you. Is there something about this principle you don't get? Talk about desperate red herrings.... If you wore a crazy wig and blackface, along with a big clownnose when seated for your driver's license picture, yes you would be required to remove. And they would be. It's completely consistent. I concur these comparison are asinine. But he knows that..., he's just being a troll for troll's sake. Not at all amigo. Merely pointing out the falicies you two are engaging in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scared.In.Canada Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Sure you can ! Guyser2 why didn`t you choose a more unique name to post under... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Those people scare me. I cannot see their face and sometimes not even their eyes. Why do they seek to scare everyday normal Canadians. It seems to me that they do not seek to fit into Canada at all but alienate themselves from the very fabric that is Canada. I'd like to see someone here sucessfully agrue how these women wearing full body sacks are seeking to include themselves with the majority of Canada in their mannerisms, speech and dress. Remember your fear of being sprayed with bodily fluids at certain parades? If you wore a full body sack you wouldn't have to be so afraid of going. Just wear a clear plastic sheet so you'll feel included and fit in with the other mannerisms on display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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