PIK Posted November 1, 2014 Report Posted November 1, 2014 OK let's look at some real history: what did Obama get handed if it wasn't a horrible mess, and certainly no lol matter. What did Harper get handed, a surplus budget he quickly turned into huge defecit which perhaps he has now recovered, albeit with a little creative accounting.Smoke and mirrors. You want to talk creative accounting talk to martin. Pillaging funds and down loading and gutting the military by 30%, when the country was doing OK and the world was not in a major recession. And we are looking great now and Europe is starting to go down the tubes again and America is been very slow getting things moving. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Big Guy Posted November 1, 2014 Report Posted November 1, 2014 So Martin gutted the military and Harper poured $billions into it. Just what have we done with the $billions and $billions poured into our military over the last few years. Just what positive use have we made of that arm of the government. Just what "good" have we done in Libya, Afghanistan and now Iraq and Syria? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
overthere Posted November 19, 2014 Report Posted November 19, 2014 And this is where you and others go off the rail . You (collectively) have mocked JTs accomplishments all the while Harper had the same background of nothing to prepare them for office. JT had dad, Harper had Manning. Again, no diff.FOr me to have blindness I would have to posit that JTs resume is vastly superior to Harpers. It isnt, they were both greenhorns when elevated to Party leader. My only point has been to laugh at the attempts to put one over the other. This gets tiresome. Harper versions 1995 or 2004 is not running against Trudeau 2015. Its going to be Trudeau 2015 vs Harper 2015. They are both seeking to be PM. Which has the better background or most experience in 2015, which is when it matters? Trudeau 2015 will have been an MP for 7 years and party leader for 3 of that. Prior to becoming an MP, he was a teacher for a few years. Harper 2015 will have been an MP for a total of 16 years, Leader of the Opposition for 4 years, 11 years as Con leader, and 9 years as Prime Minister. Before and after being an MP he worked at political and advocacy jobs. I am not saying that experience alone is the sole metric. But Trudeaus handlers now it matters, and that they cannot go head to head on this issue, because Harper has vastly more experience in running the country. That matters to some people, people that vote. And that is why they are hyping two talking points: that Harpers stewardship has been inadequate and is not an advantage , and that Trudeau is a heavyweight. It is why they published Common Ground now. Statesmen publish memoirs and sober collections of their thoughts. You don't have to actually have done much or have done anything, Obama is an example of this game. It might work, image is a heavy influence and often triumphs over substance. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
PIK Posted November 19, 2014 Report Posted November 19, 2014 Chretein sent our troops to Afghanistan in that useless jeep with wrong uniforms ,sent over in a rented Russian planes, they came home in APC and tanks in the back of RCAF globe masters. Big difference. Harper cared chretein did not. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Big Guy Posted November 19, 2014 Report Posted November 19, 2014 Yes PIK - Lots of money spent on jeeps and planes. There were also the bodies of 158 Canadian soldiers brought back in those new planes. Do you think the Canadian money and blood spent in Afghanistan was a winner? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Derek 2.0 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Posted November 20, 2014 Yes PIK - Lots of money spent on jeeps and planes. There were also the bodies of 158 Canadian soldiers brought back in those new planes. If the previous Liberal Governments that committed our soldiers to Afghanistan had followed through (and not cut in other areas) with various procurement programs started during the Mulroney Government, a good portion of those 158 (plus the countless members injured to various degrees) would have returned home alive. Do you think the Canadian money and blood spent in Afghanistan was a winner? You'd have to define your conditions of winning, but with that said, nobody will know the end result for a generation+ after Western Forces leave.... Quote
PIK Posted November 20, 2014 Report Posted November 20, 2014 If Afghanistan can go back to where it was before the soviets showed up, it will help. And of course 158 dead is hard to take, but they joined, were not drafted and knew what could happen. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
jbg Posted November 20, 2014 Report Posted November 20, 2014 If Afghanistan can go back to where it was before the soviets showed up, it will help. And of course 158 dead is hard to take, but they joined, were not drafted and knew what could happen. Actually the doo-doo was in the fan starting with a bloody 1973 coup. During that coup the constitutional monarchy was overthrown and it was off to the races. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
overthere Posted November 20, 2014 Report Posted November 20, 2014 Actually the doo-doo was in the fan starting with a bloody 1973 coup. During that coup the constitutional monarchy was overthrown and it was off to the races. You're about 5 years early there. Afghanistan was a backward, dull, misogynist and extremely poor backwater until the Soviets got way too deep into their business in 1978 and it got much nastier starting in 1979. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
jbg Posted December 8, 2014 Report Posted December 8, 2014 You're about 5 years early there. Afghanistan was a backward, dull, misogynist and extremely poor backwater until the Soviets got way too deep into their business in 1978 and it got much nastier starting in 1979.The 1973 coup created the excuse for Soviet adventurism. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
overthere Posted December 8, 2014 Report Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) The 1973 coup created the excuse for Soviet adventurism. several events led to the blowup in 1979, and the 73 coup was certainly part of it. And without question the Soviets were integral. But until 78 and particularly 1979 Afghanistan was a relatively calm backwater with little violence. eta: oh, and very poor countries like Afghainstan barely notice a coup, it has little impact on their daily lives. The power elites are small and often the death count is low whern they toss power around. Outrage is an expensive Western emotion, the extremely poor cannot afford it. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. That changed with the advent of the Taliban of course. You (collectively) have mocked JTs accomplishments Perhaps you could list them so we can better assess them. Take your time. I'm quite certain he does not have "8 years and counting experience as Prime Minister of a large economy " on his resume, but feel free to correct me. Edited December 8, 2014 by overthere Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
jbg Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 several events led to the blowup in 1979, and the 73 coup was certainly part of it. And without question the Soviets were integral.The 1973 coup served to disrupt a stable constitutional monarchy with a Parliament-like loya girga (sp). Perhaps you could list them (Trudeau's accomplishments) so we can better assess them. Take your time. On a list of the same magnitude as Arab Muslim accomplishments, if you lelave out the demolition industry. I'm quite certain he does not have "8 years and counting experience as Prime Minister of a large economy " on his resume, but feel free to correct me.I am pro-Harper but that argument proves too much. It's like saying King or Trudeau the Smarter should have remained as Prime Minister just because they had served long periods of time. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
SpankyMcFarland Posted December 20, 2014 Report Posted December 20, 2014 If Marc Garneau had won, something tells me he wouldn't be getting any softer treatment from our friends on the Right. Quote
overthere Posted December 20, 2014 Report Posted December 20, 2014 The 1973 coup served to disrupt a stable constitutional monarchy with a Parliament-like loya girga (sp). Yes, I know but the impact on daily life in the country was minimal. There was little or no fighting until 78/79, several years later. Everyday life was unchanged. The country was corrupt and bankrupt with the monarchy, and equally so with a Soviet puppet regime. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
PIK Posted December 23, 2014 Report Posted December 23, 2014 Garneau would have been a very hard target to go after, compared to trudeau. Maybe after they dump trudeau after the next election, they will give him a shot. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted December 23, 2014 Report Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Lets recap....JT has no experience, but neither did Harper , but now that he has run a country he all of a sudden had that experience previously. There is another big difference, though. Harper impressed everyone from the start with his discipline, his keen intelligence and understanding of politics and political issues. That is how he got to be leader. Well, along with a lot of behind the scenes work and effort, deal-making, and somehow, despite a total lack of charisma, persuading a lot of people to vote for him. Trudeau has impressed no one thus far, except for women who love how nice his hair is. He's known to require close handling lest he shoot his mouth off and say something dumb, and he didn't work and scramble and politic his way to the top job of his party, it was given to him on a silver platter by his dad's friends. Edited December 23, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 23, 2014 Report Posted December 23, 2014 If Marc Garneau had won, something tells me he wouldn't be getting any softer treatment from our friends on the Right. If Garneau had won I'd probably be strongly considering voting for him. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Keepitsimple Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Posted December 23, 2014 If Garneau had won I'd probably be strongly considering voting for him. I've said the same thing..........don't know if I'd pull the trigger - but I'd have to consider him. Even in opposition, he manages to frame his criticisms in an intelligent, rational way. I respect the man. Quote Back to Basics
The_Squid Posted December 23, 2014 Report Posted December 23, 2014 There is another big difference, though. Harper impressed everyone from the start with his discipline, his keen intelligence and understanding of politics and political issues. That is how he got to be leader. Well, along with a lot of behind the scenes work and effort, deal-making, and somehow, despite a total lack of charisma, persuading a lot of people to vote for him. Trudeau has impressed no one thus far, except for women who love how nice his hair is. He's known to require close handling lest he shoot his mouth off and say something dumb, and he didn't work and scramble and politic his way to the top job of his party, it was given to him on a silver platter by his dad's friends. Your sexist rant about Trudeau simply misses the mark completely, as indicated by the polls. The rest, including the personal performances of Prime Minister Stephen Harper and NDP leader Tom Mulcair, are supporting plots to this main narrative. We know this because of the polls, which consistently show the Liberals in the mid-to-high thirties in popular support, with the Tories in the low thirties and the New Democrats in the low twenties. Threehundredeight.com currently has the Grits at 36, Conservatives at 32, and the NDP at 20. Even when the Tories have a good spell, as they have this past quarter, the resulting bounce doesn’t reverse the underlying dynamic, which is in place nationwide, and has been consistent since Trudeau became Liberal leader in April of 2013. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/12/21/michael-den-tandt-fate-of-election-rests-in-trudeaus-hands-and-whether-he-can-live-up-to-his-skywalker-brand/ This election can only be lost by Trudeau himself. As long as he doesn't do anything really stupid, he has the election won. To say he hasn't impressed anyone is to ignore what has happened since he has become leader. Your comment about a lack of charisma is particularly telling. If Trudeau lacks charisma, what's Harper... a corpse? I think that's what is driving his popularity... when right wingers see a picture of Trudeau kissing a random bride, they rant about infidelity and what a slut he and she are..... everyone else goes... "awwww... how cute!" It's Trudeau's election to lose... Quote
Argus Posted December 24, 2014 Report Posted December 24, 2014 Your sexist rant about Trudeau simply misses the mark completely, as indicated by the polls. What's sexist about it? Trudeau is most popular in welfare land (Atlantic Canada) among the young (and dumb) and women. To say he hasn't impressed anyone is to ignore what has happened since he has become leader. He hasn't improved his scores among anyone. His popularity is based on being pretty, same as when he was first announced as running for the leadership. Your comment about a lack of charisma is particularly telling. If Trudeau lacks charisma, what's Harper... a corpse? What's telling is that you don't read very well. I said Harper has no charisma, not Trudeau. Trudeau is an extrovert, even if I think he does come across sometimes as either too glib or too self righteous. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
WestCoastRunner Posted December 24, 2014 Report Posted December 24, 2014 A lifelong Conservative supporter ended up running for Justin Trudeau’s LiberalsStephen Fuhr was a lifelong conservative supporter and is now a Liberal candidate in the riding of Kelowna-Lake. He is a retired military officer and fighter pilot for the Royal Canadian Air Force. He is a Christian, was born in Tory-blue Alberta and grew up in the B.C. Interior. He's never smoked a joint in his life, and has always voted Conservative. Some of his disappointments with Harper: Harper government’s decision to purchase 65 F-35 fighter jets for Canada’s air force. In constant conflict with the auditor general In constant conflict with the parliamentary budget officer In constant conflict with the Supreme Court of Canada Muzzles federal scientists, climatologists and, to a certain extent, our national media. It stonewalls investigations into its own political misdeeds. It passed a so-called Fair Elections Act that stacks the deck in their favour while making it even more difficult for Canadians to exercise their most basic democratic right. Here is what Trudeau has accomplished: He has done more to reform the Senate than the Harper government has accomplished in eight years. The Liberals have made positive and proactive moves toward improving transparency by requiring MPs post both travel and hospitality expenses online. Most recently, Justin tabled a private member’s bill called the Transparency Act to improve the public’s access to information. Further comments from Stephen Fuhr: "Yes, all this as Canada’s third party. It’s called it leading from the rear. Something I occasionally saw in the military when exceptional leadership was not properly positioned. Justin is a true team-builder who brings a new generation of capable, successful people into public service." Read more here. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Argus Posted December 24, 2014 Report Posted December 24, 2014 Some of his disappointments with Harper: Harper government’s decision to purchase 65 F-35 fighter jets for Canada’s air force. As far as I know nobody has identified any alternative to the F-35, and that is the aircraft the RCAF wants. In constant conflict with the auditor general In constant conflict with the parliamentary budget officer In constant conflict with the Supreme Court of Canada Every government is in conflict with those agencies which disagree with them. Seen Bob Chiarelli's response to the Ontario Auditor General criticizing his program? He virtually called her an ignorant peasant who had no idea what she was talking about. Muzzles federal scientists, climatologists and, to a certain extent, our national media. Ah, he's a conspiracy nut job? Interesting, the types of characters Trudeau attracts. It stonewalls investigations into its own political misdeeds. LOL. Remember how the Liberals cut off investigations into everything from adscam to the Airborne Regiment? And didn't the Ontario Liberals close down the hearings into the gas power plants? You people seem to forget how Liberals do all the same stuff (which you have NO trouble with) and then think Harper has invented it! It passed a so-called Fair Elections Act that stacks the deck in their favour while making it even more difficult for Canadians to exercise their most basic democratic right. Yup, conspiracy nut. Has this guy seen a psychiatrist? Here is what Trudeau has accomplished: He has done more to reform the Senate than the Harper government has accomplished in eight years. Uh, what? He's done quite literally NOTHING to reform the Senate. And if you think that a prime Minster Trudeau would not be immediately appointing reliable Liberals to the Senate to get his legislation passed well, I've got a bridge for sale. The Liberals have made positive and proactive moves toward improving transparency by requiring MPs post both travel and hospitality expenses online. Who cares? Government travel and hospitality has always been available to anyone who wants to know about it. Most recently, Justin tabled a private member’s bill called the Transparency Act to improve the public’s access to information. Yes, Stephen Harper was very righteous about the public's right to know too. When he was in opposition. That sort of thing changes once you're in power. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
PIK Posted January 6, 2015 Report Posted January 6, 2015 So listening to trudeau with fife, it seems he is trying to tell people he is braver then the PM when security put him in the closet, which critics today is still using to embarrass the man. As trudeau said my father taught us to run towards trouble not away from it. Just like his father did in WW2. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Keepitsimple Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Posted January 6, 2015 So listening to trudeau with fife, it seems he is trying to tell people he is braver then the PM when security put him in the closet, which critics today is still using to embarrass the man. As trudeau said my father taught us to run towards trouble not away from it. Just like his father did in WW2. Comments or implications like that are not worthy of someone aspiring to be a public figure, let alone a Prime Minister. Sounds like he went off-script and had another "Bozo eruption" “I’ve had umpteen conversations with so many people about this. It’s driving me crazy,” he is heard saying in the audio recording obtained by CTV News. “I initially thought it was a bozo eruption; that he didn’t actually think about what he said,” McKay said after he was asked about the abortion issue. “But even more disturbing is that his brain trust might have actually thought about this, and if they did … it scares the hell out of me. If you don’t know this is a toxic issue for a population then you have no political sense whatsoever.” Link: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-on-liberal-mp-s-bozo-eruption-remark-i-understand-his-frustrations-1.1840106 Quote Back to Basics
PIK Posted January 6, 2015 Report Posted January 6, 2015 Watching that and who is the 1st to defend him,Fry, the liberal MP that stated that in BC they have cross burnings going on .As in KKK. Gotta love it. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
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