Palestinian Unity Government

[jacee]

Of course they do....otherwise they'd be flooded with refugees and immigrants from oppressed Arab nations and they would indeed be "wiped off the map" or "driven into the ocean". What do you propose in its place - or didn't you think that far ahead?

I was proposing nothing, just responding with facts.

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[Bonam]

It is interesting that there is freedom of expression and there is freedom of expression. This has been a well discussed topic in another thread. It has come home to roost in Israel. There is a Palestinian commemoration called "Nakba Day". The details can be found at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_Day

Each year on May 15, Palestinians across the world commemorate the Nakba (catastrophe), or the 1948 establishment of Israel that led to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians being displaced from their homeland. There are about 1.7 million Palestinians who carry Israeli citizenship and live in villages, towns and cities across the country.

The Israeli law puts pressure on any organization attempting to commemorate that day:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/israel-nakba-palestine-150514080431980.html

It has to do with funding and the intention is to keep Palestinians from voicing their views. Is it suppressive - well it certainly does not encourage Palestinian freedom of speech or encourage opposition to the government.

How many countries allow (much less provide equal funding for) a group of people to commemorate the day of its creation as "the catastrophe"? What would be your point of view of some Quebecers mourning "the catastrophe" every Canada day? Would you expect the federal government to continue to provide funding to such a group?

[Rue]

Ghost the reason why you are not sure what it means is because you have never been to Israel and so have no clue as to how non Jewish Israelis live plus you deliberately choose to believe it must be unfair to be a non Jew in Israel without going there to see the reality and not depend on some bites from some web sites.

The answer is simple. You just don't want to acknowledge it.

The answer is public fact. Non Jews in Israel have the highest standard of living of Muslims or Christians in the Middle East and have all the legal rights Jews do not have in the Muslim world. It means the Bahaii felt safe enough to set up their main house of worship in Haifa.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Rue

[Rue]

Marcus your analogy that visiting a country to learn about its actual conditions before commenting on them as not being necessary because everyone knows sexual assault is wrong ironically speaks loudly as to the ignorance you now try justify.

Did it ever dawn on you that to understand sexual assault you will have to do better then now telling everyone you are an expert on it because you think it bad?

Did it ever dawn on you how much expertise the police sex crimes unit must have, or the training psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, rape crisis counselors must have? You even have a clue how much effort these people put in to understanding sexual assault phenomena?

In your attempt to rationalize ignorance, you now trivialize sexual assault and giggle at your arrogant belief at how much of an expert you are on things such as sexual assault. Marcus quit with the giggling. Your expertise on sexual assault clearly is no different than your knowledge of Israel. You think you know but you haven't a clue. You think because you are angry and think something is bad, it makes you an expert and that Marcus is the irony-you come on here and brag-you brag about being proud of your ignorance towards subjects thinking you can pass off anger, hatred, emotion as knowledge.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Ghost the reason why you are not sure what it means is because you have never been to Israel and so have no clue as to how non Jewish Israelis live plus you deliberately choose to believe it must be unfair to be a non Jew in Israel without going there to see the reality and not depend on some bites from some web sites.

The answer is simple. You just don't want to acknowledge it.

The answer is public fact. Non Jews in Israel have the highest standard of living of Muslims or Christians in the Middle East and have all the legal rights Jews do not have in the Muslim world. It means the Bahaii felt safe enough to set up their main house of worship in Haifa.

I have not been to a lot of places, does not mean I cannot comment on them. Go away.

[marcus]

Marcus quit with the giggling.

Lol.

A giggler just told me not to giggle. Lol.

[Rue]

Ghost you said "Go away". Who or whom were you referring to? Did you mean me or the world outside your virtual reality?

.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Ghost you said "Go away". Who or whom were you referring to? Did you mean me or the world outside your virtual reality?

.

Lol.

[Michael Hardner]

Can we pick this up a notch ? The entire topic is starting to really get bogged down in personal statements and "cute" little jabs, which is bad conversation to most of us.

[dre]

Can we pick this up a notch ? The entire topic is starting to really get bogged down in personal statements and "cute" little jabs, which is bad conversation to most of us.

Pick it up a notch? ROFLMAO, Yeah right. Theres a reason why CONFLICT: DIRTFARM HOLYLAND consistantly generates some of the lowest quality discourse on the internet. People have "sports fanned up", and siloed themselves onto one side, and insulated themselves from having to think by building a firewall of cherry picked data and events.

All these threads are the same. You should just make a forum category specially for this topic and instruct members not to pollute other discussions with dirtfarm garbage.

[marcus]

dre: You continuously play the fence sitter and use "DIRTFARM HOLYLAND" like it's some amazing slogan while sweeping any other discussion as unworthy. Playing the fence sitter and calling all sides shitty to win credibility points is not the right approach. You make a lot of good points on here in regards to the conflict. Why not take a strong stance not for a "team" but instead a stance on the side of justice and humanity?

When it comes to this particular issue, there is a systematic approach to debates from most of those who apologize for Israel's actions. They have talking points and use misinformation to mold the picture. This has been going on for decades and it used to work a lot better, before the internet came into play. This is not the case any more. We have information and evidence at our finger tips. We need to take a strong stance against these people, who will lie and cheat and try to drown out the truth in order to push their agenda. When it comes to most of these people, responding with the truth and showing facts is not enough for them to stop spreading misinformation. They need to be singled out for their lies and if it means that they are to be ridiculed and shamed, then so be it.

[Je suis Omar]

The world is a better place since the rump of the Nazis or Tojo's Japan did not survive.

You say that because you are not of the millions that have died at the hands of the USA, a country that is fully the equivalent of Japan and Germany circa 1930 to 1945.

You've had the propaganda pounded into your head. You've heard of the Rape of Nanking but never of the Rape of the Philippines. You've heard of the Holocaust but never of the myriad smaller USA holocausts.

You've never heard, or you ignore, the millions slaughtered by the USA to advance its position of wealth.

[bush_cheney2004]

You've never heard, or you ignore, the millions slaughtered by the USA to advance its position of wealth.

Nonsense.....you get your information from America using Google ! We have heard...many times...many decades ago. America does not enlist Canadian atrocities in order to feel morally superior.

[Big Guy]

At the end of May, a military group from Hamas claimed to have fired 5 experimental rockets targeting the sea. One of those rockets missed the sea and hit an Israeli city.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/rocket-gaza-lands-southern-israel-150526190055947.html

Israel retaliated by bombing "four terrorist infrastructures in the Gaza strip". Score - Palestinians with one direct hit(even if it was a mistake) on a town. Israel with a few direct hits on "infrastructure". I evaluate this battle as a draw with a slight edge to Israel because Hamas missed the sea.

In early June, some Palestinians sent a few of their wonky rockets into Israel and hit their usual - nothing. Israel, showing its superior power and accurately targeted and successfully bombed three empty fields.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/rockets-fired-gaza-southern-israel-150603230355923.html

Score - Palestinians with at least two wonky rockets somewhere into Israel. Israelis get credit for three empty fields. I declare Israel the clear winner in this exchange!

The Palestinians may have a chance if they keep targeting the sea.

The birth rate per year in Gaza is about 35 per thousand. The population is about 1.8 million. So my calculations, about 2,000 more Palestinians are now in Gaza as were after the last time Israel went in and killed about 2,000 civilians. I assume that Netanyahu and the boys are planning their next "expedition" into Gaza.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Big Guy

[Big Guy]

About 13 years ago, the American Congress passed legislation that inadvertently recognized Jerusalem as belonging to Israel. People born in Jerusalem were allowed to state that they were born in Israel on their American pass ports. That decision was appealed by the current Obama administration and the American Supreme Court sided with Obama.

The USA DOES NOT recognize Jerusalem as belonging to Israel.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2015/06/court-invalidates-born-jerusalem-passport-law-150608160328257.html

Small point but it appears that the Israeli lobby in Washington is not quite as powerful as expected.

Good. There is a need for a little more objectivity by the USA on the situation in the Middle East. I hope that (me too USA) Harper takes this as a message that Canada too should be more careful on what it supports in the Middle East.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Big Guy

[bush_cheney2004]

Say it ain't so....you mean that the Zionists don't really control Washington after all ? How can this be ?

Canada makes its own policy decisions in the ME. Can't have it both ways.

Edited June 8, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[Big Guy]

Looks like the Palestinian Unity Government is history. It appears that Hamas has been negotiating with Israel without President Abbas. Abbas will not share power with Hamas under those conditions and has dissolved that partnership.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/palestinian-unity-government-resigns-150617125314649.html

It will be interesting to see if this makes it easier or more difficult for Israel to deal with the Palestinians and how Canada will receive this mews.

[Rue]

Hamas and the PA were always and will always be enemies Bug Guy. The unity government was a p.r. stunt. There is in fact on the ground a war between Hamas's armed faction and the PA's ,i.e., Fatah. The two hate each other as much or more than Israel.

I know that because I lived there and witnessed it on the ground.

As for the exchange you mentioned with the rockets my comment remains the same-its a lose-lose. No one wins and everyone loses any time a rocket is shot on both sides. Both sides suffer equally in different ways. One death on either side is one too much. Life is precious period. Any civilian who dies or feels the stress or injury of war is a victim. They all deserve peace and peaceful co-existence. One death on either side, is a failure and loss to humanity an this is what we talk of humanity-not Palestinians or Israelis, humans who bleed and blow up the exact same way.

Disarm the terrorists and peaceful people on both sides now under attack could again come out and reach out to each other. They have in the past they can again. They just need to terrorists disarmed. This then makes the IDF obsolete and un-needed and people can then surface again to talk.

How to achieve a genuine non terrorist political option for Palestinians remains the no.1 obstacle. As long as they remain, they justify the extremists in Israel who will never pull troops off of the coast line and borders of Gaza or pull them out of the West Bank and so, their continued presence then triggers a new generation of Palestinians seeing he IDF as a symbol of oppression and occupation and on and on it goes.

[Big Guy]

The United Nations has published the results of its investigation into the most recent conflict in Gaza;

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/war-crimes-committed-sides-israel-gaza-150622104029627.html

Not sure that this is good news for Israel. It has been trying to maintain the moral high ground by describing the Hamas Palestinians as mindless, terrorist thugs. Mindless, terrorist, thugs are expected to be guilty of war crimes.

But a nation "only protecting themselves" does not kill indiscriminately and be found guilty of war crimes by an impartial world organization.

This latest decision adds to a growing global feeling of "a pox on both their houses and the hell with all of them."

Canada should now start looking for new partners in the Middle East. Time to disassociate Canada from Israel and wash our hands of Israeli actions.

[Rue]

Thread drift yet again,.

[Big Guy]

Looks like the Catholic Church has waded into the Middle East controversy on the side of the Palestinians. The Pope has signed an agreement with the Palestinians. This "accord" recognizes Palestine's status as the birthplace of Christianity and the cradle of monotheistic religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/vatican-fire-israel-deal-palestine-150626135224948.html

Two years ago, the Vatican became one of the 136 countries who recognize Palestinian sovereignty. Israel seems to be not too pleased with the new Pope but I do not think that Israel wants to take on the Vatican and the 1 billion Catholics in the world.

There are about 13 million Catholics in Canada. There is no advantage for Canada to be seen as an ally or supporter of Israel or the aggressive moves made by Israel. Time for Canadians to look for new allies in the Middle East.

[Keepitsimple]

Hamas welcomes Christians and Jews.......I didn't know that.

[Rue]

Even more thread drift and the same dump Israel as an ally mantra this time couching it by suggesting there is some imagined conflict between Israel and the Pope and Jews and Catholics.

Nothing to do with the thread everything to do with using the thread to avoid discussing the topic and pissing on Israel.

Predictable, stale, and fabricated.

Put up or shut up. Show your basis for your claim that Israel is not pleased with the Pope. Fabricated horse poop couched with words like "it seems".

Also to make a statement that Israel does not want to take on 1 billion Catholics is assinine. First off it presumes there are 1 billion Catholics all in unanimous agreement with the Pope on Palestine and the position of the Catholic Church on Palestinian is even anti Israeli.

It shows vividly how Bug Guy just doesn't stereotype Israelis, but tries to incite a war with them against Catholics based on some assinine stereotype of all Catholics as well as the Pope assuming they are all against Israel.

Big Guy now you speak on behalf of I billion Catholics do you? You the person who came on this forum posing you know Jews and those Jews are horrified what I say because I support Israel?

Give it a rest with your attempts to try couch your opinions and puff them up. Using fabricated Jews and Catholics to try puff your credibility and infer you speak for both is pathetic. You don't speak for anyone but yourself and you Sir are no Catholic, and since you have the audacity to try use 1 billion of them in your fabricated scenario have the integrity to admit you are NO Catholic.

No Catholic would refer to the Pope in the manner you did. In fact only a Muslim would. A Muslim taught that a congregation is one uniform anti Israeli thought.

Peekaboo I see you Abou. That was a lame script. Really. Now you want to use the Pope's robes?

Lol.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Rue

[marcus]

Paranoia by the Zionists runs deep and is alive and well. Speak out against the injustices against the Palestinians, and you have to be a Muslim/Iranian Agent/Syrian Agent. Boo!

By the way, what's up with the increase of attacks against the Christians by the Zionists?

Note below that when they're Jews, they are "extremists", but if there is a hint of Muslim in the air, they are "terrorists".

Israel Church Set Ablaze in Possible Jewish Extremist Attack

TABGHA, Israel — A fire ripped through one of the most famous Catholic churches in the Holy Land on Thursday, damaging the roof and burning prayer books in what authorities believe is an attack by Jewish extremists.

The fire broke out at the Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and Fish in the middle of the night, causing extensive damage to the inside and outside of the building, said Israel police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld.

[Rue]

Right. Nowhere in this article does it indicate anyone who was Zionist attacked this Church but hey why let that try stop you right arcus. Your agenda is to come on this board and incite negativity about Zionists.

Ironically the very article you rely on makes it clear the motive was not Zionist:

"A passage from a Jewish prayer, calling for the elimination of idol worship, was found scrawled in red spray paint on a wall outside the church."

You Marcus have zero proof the above opinion was not scrawledby a Musli extreist trying to incite hatred between Jews and Christians, or by an ultra-orthodox Jew who is anti Zionist or someone who is motivated by religious beliefs-but you of course blame it on all Zionists.

Hey now isnj't interesting how the very article Marcus uses to seer Zionists as attacking a church stated this:

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemned the incident and ordered the head of Israel's Shin Bet internal security agency to "to conduct a full and speedy investigation."

"This morning's outrageous arson attack on a church is an attack on us all. In Israel freedom of worship is one of our core values and is guaranteed under the law," Netanyahu said. "Those responsible for this despicable crime will face the full force of the law. Hate and intolerance have no place in our society."

Israeli President Reuven Rivlin said authorities would make every effort to apprehend those responsible.

"Such terrible desecration of an ancient and holy place of prayer is an attack on the very fabric of life in our country, where people of different faiths seek to live together in harmony and mutual tolerance and respect," Rivlin said."

Yah sure sounds like Zionists want churchs attacked and hate Christians.

Psst he forgot this as well...

"They (attacks) are often attributed to extremist Jews from West Bank settlements. Such attacks have been widely condemned across the political spectrum in Israel, though few arrests have been made."

This latest attempt by Marcus has nothing to do with the initial thread but hey why stop another pretext to piss on Zionists.