bush_cheney2004 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 The punishment can be arrests of Israeli war criminals once they enter a foreign country. The punishment can also be economic pressure from other countries who respect international law and who refuse to do business with Israel, which is already happening. Well maybe I misinterpreted what you posted, but why would ICJ punishment be "optional" for treaty signatories ? What the hell kind of circus is that ? Nevermind....I already know what kind of circus the ICJ is. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 Still trying to pretend it doesn't matter? /israel-losing-support-in-uk-ambassador-warns- Since the 1956 Suez War what has UK ever done for Israel? Even in that war the UK was more a user and employer of Israel to get back its colonial possession than a true friend of Israel. Next. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Big Guy Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Posted April 8, 2015 I believe at the moment, with Netanyahu in power in Israel for the next few years, Israel has no friends. It has countries who tolerate its actions, countries who are very critical of its actions and countries who want Israel to disappear. The settlement antics of Israel and refusal to consider a two state solution make Israel the pariah that it remains. The USA may have some interest as may another few countries in the world but I do not see any advantage for Canada to either support or tolerate Israeli actions. Any sense of association of Canada with Israel makes Canadians susceptible to retaliation for illegal and immoral Israeli actions. Israel needs Canada. Canada does not need Israel. It is time for Canada to send that message to Israel. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 It is time for Canada to send that message to Israel. Actually, Canada has been sending the opposite message for almost 2 decades. See Canada–Israel Free Trade Agreement (CIFTA). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Big Guy Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Posted April 9, 2015 I believe that Israel is a rogue anchor around the neck of a forward looking Canada. I see no advantage to Canada to continue supporting Israel in anything she does. We should review any and all agreements that we have with Israel looking towards severing any association and looking for and towards other allies in the Middle East. The USA continues to support Israel. When Israel self destructs she will take the USA with them. God bless America! God save Canada. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Rue Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 JBG this notion that Britain does not support Israel is unintentionally hilarious but its the result of someone who has no idea the lengthy adversarial relationship Britain has had with Israel and a complete lack of understanding as to why Britain was dead against a Jewish state and would continue to have animosity for one all these years later. In fact Dwight Eisenhower understood the British opinion of Israel better than anyone and did them a huge favour intervening in the Suez canal crisis. The British have always been anti Israel and reflect a bias in favour of their creation of the puppet oil monarchies and the monarchy in Jordan. They also believe Iran is their creation-someone should tell them the Persian Empire existed long before they came. The only states in Europe that have shown genuine and continuing acknowledgement of Israel's right to exist are of course Holland, Germany, and then after the Soviet collapse, Poland, the Czech Republic and Ukraine and now Greece. The rest of Europe has always been petrified of Israel ever since the oil boycotts in the late 60's. Quote
Big Guy Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Posted April 9, 2015 I have no problems with people who support Israel. Most Jews support Israel and the Israeli government does what it thinks is best for Israel. Good for them. My view is from the Canadian perspective. The support for Israel creates many problems and a few advantages for Canada. I believe that the problems outweigh the advantages and subsequently we should be looking to other allies in the Middle East. Israel continues a policy of aggressive land acquisition and Palestinian suppression against the advice and recommendations of the rest of the world. It thumbs its nose even at its greatest supporters. I also believe that as more and more countries realize that support for and association with Israel is a disadvantage that Israel will find itself more and more isolated. The Israeli people have re-elected Netanyahu the Hawk indicating their support for his policies. Let them continue on that road - but without the support and/or association of Canada. It chooses to go it alone then I suggest we let them and wish them luck. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Rue Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Of course Bug Guy you have problems with people who support Israel you state them all the time on the forum. Quote
jacee Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Of course Bug Guy you have problems with people who support Israel you state them all the time on the forum. Rue do you know anybody who supports Israel's land thefts ... er ... settlements, Quote
Big Guy Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Posted April 10, 2015 To Rue - Thank you for the brevity of your response to my post. I have no problem with people who are with or against Israeli policies. I assume that you and jbg are of the Jewish faith and believe in your religion. Good for you. I have no idea of your nationality nor is it my business. I have read some of both of your postings here and it is clear to me that you both support Israeli policies and Israeli actions. Good for you. It would also assume that if it came to a choice between your country and your religion that your religion is more important to you. Again - good for you. I am not very religious. I am Canadian. I support things that are good for Canada. If there was ever a question between my religion and my country my country would win - good for me. What I see the difference between our points of view is that I think any association and/or support for Israel by Canada has far more disadvantages than advantages. I think that Israel is doing and continues to do things that are good for Israel. I also think that Canada should be doing things that are good for Canada. I think that Canada disassociating from Israeli actions and its stated policies on settlements and one state solution is a good thing for Canada. I think that for Canada to look for new and other allies in the Middle East is a good idea for Canada. My priority is Canada - not Israel. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
marcus Posted April 10, 2015 Report Posted April 10, 2015 I have no problems with people who support Israel. I have a problem with anyone who supports actions that are illegal and unjust. It's not like we're cheering for sports teams. I don't think nationalism is an excuse or justification for accepting policies that negatively effect people. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Big Guy Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) To marcus - I believe that what is illegal and unjust can be interpreted by different people in a different manner. I think that when you live in a country like Israel and are Jewish then it is almost impossible to be objective about the actions of your government. If you are religious then you do not question your religion. When your government becomes an extension of your religion then it is very difficult to question your government. I think that it becomes a matter of perspective so if one begins to equate the criticism of the actions of your government as a criticism of your religion then there is a natural reaction to circle the wagons and protect at all costs. Edited April 10, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
marcus Posted April 10, 2015 Report Posted April 10, 2015 To marcus - I believe that what is illegal and unjust can be interpreted by different people in a different manner. I would agree to some extent, however, in others, no. I would fault the German people who supported the Nazi regime. I would fault some of the white South Africans and the Western governments around the world who supported the Apartheid government. I would fault anyone who supports ISIS. Furthermore, the illegality of some of the actions by Israel has already been confirmed in several levels. So if someone is going to argue against what the ICJ has said, what the red cross has said, what Amnesty International has said, what B'Tselem has said and what several other expert human rights organizations have said. then, I have a problem with that. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
jbg Posted April 21, 2015 Report Posted April 21, 2015 Furthermore, the illegality of some of the actions by Israel has already been confirmed in several levels. So if someone is going to argue against what the ICJ has said, what the red cross has said, what Amnesty International has said, what B'Tselem has said and what several other expert human rights organizations have said. then, I have a problem with that. Confirmed in which kangaroo forum? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
marcus Posted April 21, 2015 Report Posted April 21, 2015 Confirmed in which kangaroo forum? The kangaroo forum or court would be any time Israel investigates itself for violating the rights of non-Jews. ICJ, Amnesty International, HRW, B'Tselem, Red Cross are not considered to be kangaroo forums by any logical and honest person. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
jbg Posted April 22, 2015 Report Posted April 22, 2015 The kangaroo forum or court would be any time Israel investigates itself for violating the rights of non-Jews. ICJ, Amnesty International, HRW, B'Tselem, Red Cross are not considered to be kangaroo forums by any logical and honest person. What is Gaza's or Iran's position on gay rights? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
marcus Posted April 22, 2015 Report Posted April 22, 2015 What is Gaza's or Iran's position on gay rights? They have terrible positions and human rights groups have said as much. What does that have anything to do with Israel's inability to follow international law and being a criminal state? Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
GostHacked Posted April 22, 2015 Report Posted April 22, 2015 What is Gaza's or Iran's position on gay rights? What's Israel's position on Iran's ability to defend itself? Or is it that only Israel can defend itself? Quote
Rue Posted April 22, 2015 Report Posted April 22, 2015 Your question Ghosthacked is with due respect idiotic. Why would Israel have a policy let alone create one on Iran's right to defend itself? Israel looks after itself. The issue is not whether Iran has a right to defend itself and never was. If you want to spin that Iran is making nuclear weapons because its threatened by Israel then state that. Clearly you know Israel's position is not that Iran can not defend itself but that Iran should not obtain nuclear weapons. You want to portray Iran as a country that can be trusted with nuclear weapons? You do that Spin away how Iran is peace loving and its Muslim council are loving people and only interested in defending their people. The invasion of Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen. Lebanon and Syria through its proxy Hezbollah and Shiite militias, yah yah,peace loving. Its support of Hamas, peace loving. Its decision at the end of February and the beginning of March to announce not once but frequently on television that it was arming Hamas on the West Bank and the war to liberate Israel is not negotiable, yah yah, self defence. The continued references to ridding the Middle East of Israel, yah yah, self defence. The pronouncement by its leaders that Israel is a satan nation that needs to be destroyed as part of a religious obligation to Allah,yah yah self defence. . Quote
jbg Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 Your question Ghosthacked is with due respect idiotic. Why would Israel have a policy let alone create one on Iran's right to defend itself? . Iran's "right to defend itself" is not a serious argument. Even Iran is claiming, falsely, that the nuclear facilities are for peaceful purposes. Has Israel lately preached that Iran's destruction is "non-negotiable?" Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) Back on topic ... middle-east/holocaust-survivors-and-their-descendants-accuse-israel-of-genocide Dozens of Holocaust survivors, together with hundreds of descendants of Holocaust survivors and victims, have accused Israel of genocide for the deaths of more than 2,000 Palestinians in Gaza since the conflict erupted in July. In an open letter released by the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network and published as an advert in The New York Times, the group calls for a full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel over its wholesale effort to destroy Gaza. Genocide begins with the silence of the world, the statement reads, We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people. There is no question that Israel is in a vulnerable location ... but making itself more vulnerable by committing atrocious acts against Palestinians and alienating supporters. . Edited April 23, 2015 by jacee Quote
jbg Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 There is no question that Israel is in a vulnerable location ... but making itself more vulnerable by committing atrocious acts against Palestinians and alienating supporters. . What is your suggestion for Israel to defend itself? Go to the U.N.? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 ....There is no question that Israel is in a vulnerable location ... but making itself more vulnerable by committing atrocious acts against Palestinians and alienating supporters. . Big deal.....attacks against the terrorists and leadership in Gaza is not "genocide"...not even close. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) Iran's "right to defend itself" is not a serious argument. Even Iran is claiming, falsely, that the nuclear facilities are for peaceful purposes. Has Israel lately preached that Iran's destruction is "non-negotiable?" Both you and Rue are saying that Iran cannot defend itself? Not a serious argument? That's not the most retarded thing I have seen coming from you two, but it is close. If Israel has the right to defend itself, so does Iran. It's as simple as that. Edited April 23, 2015 by GostHacked Quote
jbg Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 Both you and Rue are saying that Iran cannot defend itself? Not a serious argument? That's not the most retarded thing I have seen coming from you two, but it is close. If Israel has the right to defend itself, so does Iran. It's as simple as that. The right to self-defense does not equal the right to incinerate. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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