PIK Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 I see, so you're saying that somehow going to war makes Harper more of a man? Not a good yardstick.The difference between a man like harper and a boy like trudeau. Trudeau could be the 1st casualty of this war. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
waldo Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 The difference between a man like harper and a boy like trudeau. Trudeau could be the 1st casualty of this war. don't forget your other go-to's... "part time drama teacher" and, of course, "The Hair". Hey PIK, just how short are your pants - does the PMO give you a 'pants allowance'? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 8, 2014 Report Posted October 8, 2014 The difference between a man like harper and a boy like trudeau. Trudeau could be the 1st casualty of this war. Possibly. Much more likely though it will be Harper when the airstrikes turn out to be innefectual as well as expensive. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 I"m trying to think of the last time you contributed anything of value on this web site and failing... Maybe you should just go have another toke. I agree - you are failing. A sure sign of when people have run out of intelligent things to add is when they start to poke fun at my handle. Thanks for calling that out for us. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 Riiight. I don't know any Tory supporters that just LOVE the idea of going to war. That's practically unheard of. So how would he leverage further votes from within his own base? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 What kind of intervention did they ask for? Because from the sounds of it they simply want more arms and humanitarian aid for refugees. They don't want foreigners coming in and dropping bombs all over the country, indiscriminately killing innocent people in the process. You feel the Iraqi army and Kurds don't want air support, support that would provide a distinct advantage over ISIS????? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 It seems to be becoming more and more widely reported that the air strikes are only marginally helpful and of course 6 F 18's are but a token addition to that effort. That, I hasten to add, is no slight to the people who will carry out the task given them. Harper's approach seems to be terribly short sighted and as such, in this type of serious action get's scary. It's kind of why you don't let your kids play with matches. They won't know what to do after they light the dog on fire. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 It seems to be becoming more and more widely reported that the air strikes are only marginally helpful and of course 6 F 18's are but a token addition to that effort. Where is it being reported that airstrikes are only marginally helpful? Airstrikes alone won't win the fight against ISIS, but are an important part of the puzzle with conventional warfare since the dawn of manned flight. Quote
Smallc Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 A token effort? For Canada, 6 jets is a big deal, especially when we've had 4 somewhere else for a while. We don't have a big fleet. Most countries don't. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 A token effort? For Canada, 6 jets is a big deal, especially when we've had 4 somewhere else for a while. We don't have a big fleet. Most countries don't. Indeed, and six aircraft equates to two aircraft over a portion of Iraq, short-term, 24/7 and 50-70% of the time sustained over the course of six months. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 A token effort? For Canada, 6 jets is a big deal, especially when we've had 4 somewhere else for a while. We don't have a big fleet. Most countries don't. Again, no slight to the the people involved, but all of the coalition forces added up equal less than 1 US aircraft carrier firepower. The US is doing ~90% of the airstrikes. So in the overall scheme of things those 6 F 18's won't make a hell of a lot of difference, no matter how well operated. There could be other avenues to more effectively support the people who need it. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 Where is it being reported that airstrikes are only marginally helpful? Airstrikes alone won't win the fight against ISIS, but are an important part of the puzzle with conventional warfare since the dawn of manned flight. Apparently the Kobani evening news has a report on it. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 Apparently the Kobani evening news has a report on it. What report? That a small, lightly armed, untrained Kurdish Force was losing ground to a far larger, heavily armed, semi trained ISIS force in a built up area? How did ISIS contend with a larger, heavily armed, semi trained Iraqi force, supported by US air power in Mosul? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 What report? That a small, lightly armed, untrained Kurdish Force was losing ground to a far larger, heavily armed, semi trained ISIS force in a built up area? How did ISIS contend with a larger, heavily armed, semi trained Iraqi force, supported by US air power in Mosul? Um, they took over Mosul, took about 450 million out of the bank while at it, and they are taking over Kobani, even in the midst of airstrikes. Any other questions? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 Um, they took over Mosul, took about 450 million out of the bank while at it, and they are taking over Kobani, even in the midst of airstrikes. Any other questions? Update your news feed...... Kurdish peshmerga fighters backed by US warplanes pressed a counter-offensive against jihadists on Monday after retaking Iraq's largest dam alongside Iraqi government forces, as the US and Britain stepped up their military involvement. The recapture of Mosul dam marks the biggest prize yet clawed back fromIslamic State (Isis) jihadists since they launched a major offensive in northern Iraq in June, sweeping Iraqi security forces aside. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 Update your news feed...... I have read that article and others back when they were new, and I was glad to hear about it. Unfortunately the IS guys seem to know what they ar eup to and with Mosul dam they just receded into the local town, whos name escapes me at the moment. Kobani has the IS flag flying over it as we speak. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on their side, au contraire, I want them gone asap. Arming the Kurds would be much more effective it seems. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 I have read that article and others back when they were new, and I was glad to hear about it. Unfortunately the IS guys seem to know what they ar eup to and with Mosul dam they just receded into the local town, whos name escapes me at the moment. Kobani has the IS flag flying over it as we speak. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on their side, au contraire, I want them gone asap. Arming the Kurds would be much more effective it seems. And why does ISIS flee into villages, towns and cities? Simple, air strikes........As I said many times, once ISIS reverts back into the urban areas when their heavy arms are destroyed, it will be up to both the Kurds and Iraqi army to retake these populated urban areas house to house......The air strikes are reducing the ability of ISIS to deploy a conventional force (what they used to achieve in many of their Iraqi victories), forcing it to revert back to a guerrilla force..... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 And why does ISIS flee into villages, towns and cities? Simple, air strikes........As I said many times, once ISIS reverts back into the urban areas when their heavy arms are destroyed, it will be up to both the Kurds and Iraqi army to retake these populated urban areas house to house......The air strikes are reducing the ability of ISIS to deploy a conventional force (what they used to achieve in many of their Iraqi victories), forcing it to revert back to a guerrilla force..... And when the airstrikes are over they re-emerge. They are nasty but not stupid. You are right in one concept though, it will inevitably be up to the Iraqi's and the Kurds to put an end to IS. We'd be much smarter to provide them with the means to get that done. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 And when the airstrikes are over they re-emerge. They are nasty but not stupid. You are right in one concept though, it will inevitably be up to the Iraqi's and the Kurds to put an end to IS. We'd be much smarter to provide them with the means to get that done. They won't re-emerge, just like they didn't re-emerge as a conventional force during the US occupation........As to providing the "means", we are, both in terms or arms/munitions and further training...... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 They won't re-emerge, just like they didn't re-emerge as a conventional force during the US occupation........As to providing the "means", we are, both in terms or arms/munitions and further training...... "Won't re-emerge"? They already have. They don't wear uniforms as you will recall. When the goin' gets tough, they get goin'. Regroup and return. Hard to see from 17000 feet in a F 18. Easy to see if you're a local at street level. Quote
Big Guy Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 "Won't re-emerge"? They already have. They don't wear uniforms as you will recall. When the goin' gets tough, they get goin'. Regroup and return. Hard to see from 17000 feet in a F 18. Easy to see if you're a local at street level. All reports indicate that the local Sunni population supports these ISIS fighters. If the locals do not point out the good guys from the bad guys then the only way you can differentiate is in which direction they are shooting. Often it is too late by then. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 "Won't re-emerge"? They already have. They don't wear uniforms as you will recall. When the goin' gets tough, they get goin'. Regroup and return. Hard to see from 17000 feet in a F 18. Easy to see if you're a local at street level. As I said: they didn't re-emerge as a conventional force during the US occupation This is directly a result of modern air power...........ISIS ditching their tanks, MRAPS and uparmored Humvees for sub-compacts and scooters, well blending into the civilian population is a reduction in their ability to fight conventionally. Well signalling that airstrikes are having a result, a result that will see ISIS revert to a lightly armed insurgency, of which the Iraqi army and police services will contend with. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 All reports indicate that the local Sunni population supports these ISIS fighters. If the locals do not point out the good guys from the bad guys then the only way you can differentiate is in which direction they are shooting. Often it is too late by then. What is the alternative for the local Sunni population? Its rather easy for civil authorities, combined with the general populace, to "support" ISIS when their families are under threat........ Quote
Argus Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 And do you think for a second Harper's is not? What I am saying is Harper, by not at least attempting to bring the opposition on in a meaningful way has set himself up for a big fail if/when this mission goes bad. No, I don't think Harper wants anything to do with this but couldn't figure a way of saying no. This is a par of working with allies. You don't get to say no all the time. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 9, 2014 Report Posted October 9, 2014 I see, so you're saying that somehow going to war makes Harper more of a man? Not a good yardstick. Harper is fulfilling his obligations. Trudeau is playing political games. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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