Ferguson Anonymous

[Mighty AC]

Responding to police oppression in Ferguson Missouri, the hacker collective known as Anonymous threatened to shut down government websites, phones, networks, databases and release personal information about police and government officials online. The hacker group demanded that police not take action against the protesters and press, plus they want a new law, Mike Brown's Law, to set strict national standards for police conduct and misbehaviour.

Please take 2 minutes to watch the Anonymous video message. The computer voice makes for a chilling narrative.

As we know the police have taken action against protesters as well as the press, so Anonymous fulfilled their promise. They have shut down government phones and tech and have released personal information about police, government officials and their families.

"They’re posting it out there asking for violence against me, my family, our council members, their families. (St. Louis County Police)Chief Belmar, it was Instigram, Chief Belmar’s house and his wife’s name was put online and people asked them to go and do harm to them. That’s the kind of people you’re dealing with, and that’s serious." - Mayor James Knowles, III of Ferguson

"I think it’s extremely dangerous. It exposes people to individuals out there who are violent and are looking for some sort of vengeance. It’s not a lot of people obviously but we really need to be cautions." - Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/14/anonymous-ferguson/

Should Anonymous be considered a terrorist organization or are they more like a modern Robin Hood fighting a corrupt and oppressive abuse of power?

[Black Dog]

Already a thread on this.

[Big Guy]

...

Should Anonymous be considered a terrorist organization or are they more like a modern Robin Hood fighting a corrupt and oppressive abuse of power?

The term “terrorists” has been used so often and for so many different things that I will not use it here.

Thank you for the link. It truly is chilling and threatening. Any group which claims to represent another group and then appoint themselves as judges and executioners are attempting to circumvent the principle of democracy and law and order.

This is anarchy.

The fact of staying anonymous and not accepting the responsibility for their statement is cowardice.

Looks to me like a bunch of arrogant, self serving nerds who have far too much time on their hands.

Robin Hoods? No. More like Court Jesters.

[Mighty AC]

Already a thread on this.

The Ferguson Unrest thread? I want to discuss the actions by Anonymous, which would no doubt get lost in the white cop, black kid posts.

[Mighty AC]

Thank you for the link. It truly is chilling and threatening. Any group which claims to represent another group and then appoint themselves as judges and executioners are attempting to circumvent the principle of democracy and law and order.

This is anarchy.

Is it acceptable for we the people to fight back, if those who dish out the law and order are corrupt?

[AngusThermopyle]

This is a really difficult question. On the one hand if corruption exists then the use of any means possible to combat this corruption is an option that must be considered. On the other hand this type of action completely circumvents the rule of law and is unacceptable. Has the rule of law been circumvented in this particular incident? Honestly I don't think enough is known as of yet to make that decision. On the other hand if its another case of cops investigating cops, well we all know how that always turns out don't we.

[Mighty AC]

This is a really difficult question. On the one hand if corruption exists then the use of any means possible to combat this corruption is an option that must be considered. On the other hand this type of action completely circumvents the rule of law and is unacceptable. Has the rule of law been circumvented in this particular incident? Honestly I don't think enough is known as of yet to make that decision. On the other hand if its another case of cops investigating cops, well we all know how that always turns out don't we.

It is tough and I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the actions by Anonymous yet.

Determining both the level of existing corruption and what is necessary to justify circumventing the rule of law are difficult grey areas. Several factors lead me to believe the police force does in fact have corruption issues. For one it is 96% white in a 70% black community. That stat implies (but does not prove) racist/corrupt hiring practices. Secondly, by replacing tear gas assaults with respectful dialogue the Missouri State Troopers, who replaced the Ferguson cops, were able to end the violence from protesters almost instantly. Finally, the fact that Ferguson police charged a black man for destruction of property because he bled on their uniforms while they beat him (posted by Cybercoma here) shows a deep level of corruption and potential racism.

So I guess the question is, does this level of corruption justify the cyber attacks and potentially endangering the lives of government and police members? Specifically, outing the addresses and identities of the mayor, cops and their families bothers me, because the angry mob could easily have attacked and/or killed innocent people in a fit of vengeance. The fact that those who are supposed to serve and protect the citizens of Ferguson clearly harm innocent people doesn't make the reverse acceptable.

Shutting down phone systems and databases during such a frantic time could have also exacerbated problems. I would have rather Anonymous used their unique talents to help force change after the initial crisis was averted. I think using cyber attacks and the threat or actual release of sensitive information to force the replacement of police and government officials along with the creation of new laws would have been preferable.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Remiel]

I may have missed it, but where is the violence threatened against officials children?

[Argus]

It is tough and I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the actions by Anonymous yet.

Determining both the level of existing corruption and what is necessary to justify circumventing the rule of law are difficult grey areas. Several factors lead me to believe the police force does in fact have corruption issues. For one it is 96% white in a 70% black community. That stat implies (but does not prove) racist/corrupt hiring practices.

Maybe in a city which was white majority it would, but in a black majority city one presumes the majority of votes are black and thus the council and city government represents them, or should, but the mayor is white and so is almost the entire city council. Why? Because Blacks don't vote.

The issue boils down to who votes. Ferguson is roughly two-thirds black, but compared with the city’s whites, the community is younger, poorer (the city has a 22 percent poverty rate overall), and, as the New York Times recently wrote, somewhat transient, prone to moving “from apartment to apartment. - Slate

Why are most of the cops white? I don't know. Is there an education issue in that area? Ie, are most of the young black males high school dropouts? Or do they sneer at the thought of even applying for the police department because they hate cops and don't want to be one?

[Argus]

Is it acceptable for we the people to fight back, if those who dish out the law and order are corrupt?

Fight who? The dumb hackers released the wrong name of the officer, for example, trying to get an innocent person beat up or killed...

[Big Guy]

Is it acceptable for we the people to fight back, if those who dish out the law and order are corrupt?

But we (they) have a process. The state police can be brought in and even the federal agencies if the event has racial overtones. It has happened in the past. I believe that democracies have a process that has to be followed. I do not believe that you can cherry pick some aspects and not undermine the whole. To allow a small group (no matter if their intentions are good or bad) to bypass the checks and balances of a democracy is to support a process where the end justifies the means. Who then decides the parameters and limitations of the means? It is a slippery slope that cannot prove to be productive in the long run.

[jbg]

Another thread on Ferguson here (link).

[kimmy]

This is a difficult question.

On the one hand, this is essentially a vigilante group. It's a digital lynch mob. They could completely ruin an innocent person's life. There's no accountability, no assurance that any sort of fairness results.

On the other hand, I believe that this sort of vigilante action occurs in response to failure by the authorities to maintain the confidence of the public.

Consider the participation of Anonymous in the Steubenville rape case. Anonymous had a direct role in embarrassing the authorities into taking action. A female blogger had reported about the incident first, and the New York Times posted about it shortly after that, but it wasn't until Anonymous got involved that the situation became so inflamed that the local authorities were forced to take action.

The threat of mob justice is one reason why justice needs to be done but also needs to be visible. In today's society, where we don't have lynch mobs anymore, perhaps the law enforcement community has lost sight of what can happen if the people no longer trust the police to provide justice. That's what happened in Steubenville. But we still have lynch mobs, and they carry laptops instead of torches and pitchforks.

Another thread on Ferguson here (link).

Yes, we know. And the starter of this thread stated his reasons for making this thread separate.

-k

[Shady]

Responding to police oppression in Ferguson Missouri, the hacker collective known as Anonymous threatened to shut down government websites, phones, networks, databases and release personal information about police and government officials online. The hacker group demanded that police not take action against the protesters and press, plus they want a new law, Mike Brown's Law, to set strict national standards for police conduct and misbehaviour.

Please take 2 minutes to watch the Anonymous video message. The computer voice makes for a chilling narrative.

As we know the police have taken action against protesters as well as the press, so Anonymous fulfilled their promise. They have shut down government phones and tech and have released personal information about police, government officials and their families.

"They’re posting it out there asking for violence against me, my family, our council members, their families. (St. Louis County Police)Chief Belmar, it was Instigram, Chief Belmar’s house and his wife’s name was put online and people asked them to go and do harm to them. That’s the kind of people you’re dealing with, and that’s serious." - Mayor James Knowles, III of Ferguson

"I think it’s extremely dangerous. It exposes people to individuals out there who are violent and are looking for some sort of vengeance. It’s not a lot of people obviously but we really need to be cautions." - Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/14/anonymous-ferguson/

Should Anonymous be considered a terrorist organization or are they more like a modern Robin Hood fighting a corrupt and oppressive abuse of power?

I think they should mind their own business. Nobody elected them to nothing. There's already a legal frame work in place to deal with this incident. The FBI is conducting forensic tests, and the Department of Justice is doing an investigation. But these things take time. This juvenile group has to know that these things aren't wrapped up in nice 60 minute CSI episode. Who made them king?

[Big Guy]

...

On the one hand, this is essentially a vigilante group. It's a digital lynch mob. They could completely ruin an innocent person's life. There's no accountability, no assurance that any sort of fairness results.

...

Exactly - there is no accountability. This digital lynch group strung up the wrong person;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/08/14/twitter-anonymous-hacker-ferguson/14061923/

This kind of irresponsibility can easily cause innocent deaths.

[kimmy]

Exactly - there is no accountability. This digital lynch group strung up the wrong person;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/08/14/twitter-anonymous-hacker-ferguson/14061923/

This kind of irresponsibility can easily cause innocent deaths.

It is the duty of law enforcement authorities to maintain an environment where "let's calm down and trust the investigators to do their job" is a reasonable request instead of a punchline.

Ferguson is a town where the police charged a man with destroying public property because he bled on their uniforms while they were stomping his face in, and received no sanction at all. "Let's trust the investigators" is not a reasonable request for people in Ferguson.

-k

[dre]

Exactly - there is no accountability. This digital lynch group strung up the wrong person;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/08/14/twitter-anonymous-hacker-ferguson/14061923/

This kind of irresponsibility can easily cause innocent deaths.

Yes they got it wrong, but the state gets it wrong way more.

The reality is, that government today is increasingly closed and corrupt. Groups like wiki leaks, and anonymous are necessary and theyre here to stay.

[Wilber]

There is a big difference between leaking information an actively engaging in sabotage and vandalism. Historically, vigilantes and lynch mobs have been responsible for far more injustice than the other way around. If you want to put the administration of " justice" in the hands of "anonymous", leave me out.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Wilber

[Shady]

It is the duty of law enforcement authorities to maintain an environment where "let's calm down and trust the investigators to do their job" is a reasonable request instead of a punchline.

Ferguson is a town where the police charged a man with destroying public property because he bled on their uniforms while they were stomping his face in, and received no sanction at all. "Let's trust the investigators" is not a reasonable request for people in Ferguson.

-k

But the investigators are more than just Ferguson. The Department of Justice and the FBI are involved. So yes, let's trust the investigators involved is a very reasonable request. At least for most people in Ferguson.

[Shady]

Yes they got it wrong, but the state gets it wrong way more.

The reality is, that government today is increasingly closed and corrupt. Groups like wiki leaks, and anonymous are necessary and theyre here to stay.

The state can be held accountable. The state has to operate within the confines of the law. The state has names and faces. None of this applies to said god group.

[kimmy]

But the investigators are more than just Ferguson. The Department of Justice and the FBI are involved. So yes, let's trust the investigators involved is a very reasonable request. At least for most people in Ferguson.

Sure, now that there are outside parties involved, "let's let the investigators do their job" is a reasonable request.

But you'd have to be a king-sized sucker to believe that the Ferguson PD would be getting any of this outside scrutiny if rioting hadn't broken out.

It's unfortunate that it takes something this extreme to bring attention to a situation, but that seems to be where things are at.

-k

[Hal 9000]

Sure, now that there are outside parties involved, "let's let the investigators do their job" is a reasonable request.

But you'd have to be a king-sized sucker to believe that the Ferguson PD would be getting any of this outside scrutiny if rioting hadn't broken out.

It's unfortunate that it takes something this extreme to bring attention to a situation, but that seems to be where things are at.

-k

The autopsy and ballistics will tell us everything we need to know.

[kimmy]

The autopsy and ballistics will tell us everything we need to know.

It might tell us what we need to know about the Michael Brown shooting, but it won't shed any light on animosity between the police and the citizens that clearly goes back farther than this one incident.

-k

[cybercoma]

It might tell us what we need to know about the Michael Brown shooting, but it won't shed any light on animosity between the police and the citizens that clearly goes back farther than this one incident.

-k

It's like they took the 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment as a guide for how police services should operate. They learned nothing from this.

TL;DR version: The SPE looked at the psychological effects of being a prisoner or a guard. The study was stopped after only 6 days, due to the abuse that was given and received by the participants.

[Argus]

It might tell us what we need to know about the Michael Brown shooting, but it won't shed any light on animosity between the police and the citizens that clearly goes back farther than this one incident.

-k

Maybe the Black citizens of Ferguson might consider doing something even more extreme if they want changes, like say, voting.