On Guard for Thee Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 Ok, when you gonna' start? Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 That's fine....the U.S. is not Canada. Why would anyone expect identical experiences ? Canada ain't no paradise for police interactions either...just ask First Nations and "visible minorities". We have a big issue with First Nations no doubt about it. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
WestCoastRunner Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 That's fine....the U.S. is not Canada. Why would anyone expect identical experiences ? Canada ain't no paradise for police interactions either...just ask First Nations and "visible minorities". I would love to see a task force that takes care of education for First Nations, housing etc. First though, I would like to see where the money is going that the First Nations have access to. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 I would love to see a task force that takes care of education for First Nations, housing etc. First though, I would like to see where the money is going that the First Nations have access to. We're getting off topic, but the point remains that legal police procedures can and does result in the death of perps and bystanders. Until that changes (laws, police unions, victims advocacy, etc.), nothing is going to be different. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WestCoastRunner Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 We're getting off topic, but the point remains that legal police procedures can and does result in the death of perps and bystanders. Until that changes (laws, police unions, victims advocacy, etc.), nothing is going to be different. I get that. Hence the federal investigation into the Cleveland Police Force. Apparently, not much in the report was followed. CYA abounded. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 I get that. Hence the federal investigation into the Cleveland Police Force. Apparently, not much in the report was followed. CYA abounded. Which is exactly what happened many times before. The "law enforcement" mission and legal framework guarantees that it will continue. Dead perps....dead cops....dead bystanders. Fill out the paperwork and wait for the next one.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Black Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 So who is to blame for the amount of firearms out there? If there was no demand, there would not be any manufacturing. But that is another thing 'I THOUGHT he was reaching for a weapon'. I must point out once more regarding the cop who shot the guy for complying with his request to get his license. IN a split second the cop opens fire because the man reached inside his truck for his wallet. Is the gun to blame here? That someone might be reaching for a gun is a very real prospect in the States, certainly more so than in Canada, England, Japan, Australia, etc. That's one of the reasons cops gets jumpy. It also makes for a plausible excuse when they're wrong. I thought we moved past this 'blame the firearm and not the person using it' bullshit. We're looking into reasons why things are the way they are. Sorry you don't like them. Quote
Black Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 We're getting off topic, but the point remains that legal police procedures can and does result in the death of perps and bystanders. Until that changes (laws, police unions, victims advocacy, etc.), nothing is going to be different. This is your (rare non-Canada focused) posting in a nutshell: stating the blindingly obvious with no insight or original thought, just deference to the status quo that adds nothing to the discussion. 5,000+ posts per year of this trash. Unbelievable. Quote
Smallc Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 I'm not an expert but plenty of legal analysts have expressed the recommendations that he should have been ticketed and the power hungry cops should have carried on with their work day and left him alone. He'd be alive today looking forward to Christmas with his kids, wife, parents and grandkids. Instead, his family is mourning his passing because he chose to stand up to the power hungry cops (after many harrassment attempts on behalf of the cops) and they chose to tackle him. Did they not recognize what kind of shape he was in and not realized that if they tackled him to the ground with a chokehold that it might have had a detrimental affect on his life (everyone knows, just looking at him, he is not a healthy dude). Isn't the police force supposed to be engaging in 'community policing' instead of 'tyranny policing'? Where are the facts in this? Quote
Black Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 Where are the facts in this? Reads like an opinion to me. What's your point? Quote
Smallc Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 You'd have to read the Ontario Teachers Strike thread for context. But that's off topic and I apologize, I'm just having a bad day. Quote
Argus Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 Ooops, Argus has his facts wrong again. Would you care to point out which facts I have wrong or would stringing together too many words in a single post overload your brain? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
PIK Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 To bad the chiefs would not just admit that they to have failed their people and do something about it, instead of threats. If they think they can disrupt the country and bring us to our knees, are being very foolish. All it will do is wake up the white guy and when that happens .................. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
PIK Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 We all do small c. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) I'm not an expert but plenty of legal analysts have expressed the recommendations that he should have been ticketed and the power hungry cops should have carried on with their work day and left him alone. Plenty of 'legal analysts'? Expressed the recommendation? This wasn't the first run-in this guy had with police. And the policy of when to arrest vs ticket someone in New York is set by the NYPD not 'legal analysts' on cable tv. He'd be alive today looking forward to Christmas with his kids, wife, parents and grandkids. Instead, his family is mourning his passing because he chose to stand up to the power hungry cops In other words, if he hadn't resisted arrest he'd be alive today. So I guess the lesson is to not resist arrest, huh. If people would do what they're told by police then fewer of them, like this dude, would wind up being shot to death. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/09/n-y-police-kill-attacker-at-brooklyn-synagogue-after-student-is-stabbed-in-the-head/ Edited December 9, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Black Dog Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) In other words, if he hadn't resisted arrest he'd be alive today. So I guess the lesson is to not resist arrest, huh. If people would do what they're told by police then fewer of them, like this dude, would wind up being shot to death. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/09/n-y-police-kill-attacker-at-brooklyn-synagogue-after-student-is-stabbed-in-the-head/ First off, Garner wasn't resisting arrest, at least by any reasonable person's definition of resisting. Second, you've already seen numerous examples that show that you don't actually have to be doing anything to end up on the wrong end of a cop's baton or bullet. Nor do you have to be doing anything wrong to get stopped and harassed by the pigs in the first place, especially if you're a young black male. But your abject prostration before authority is noted and, I'm sure, appreciated. Edited December 9, 2014 by Black Dog Quote
GostHacked Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 Stop feeding the troll, I had to skip over 4 freaking pages of the same back n forth one liner garbage. Quote
GostHacked Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) You've already seen numerous examples that show that you don't actually have to be doing anything to end up on the wrong end of a cop's baton or bullet. Nor do you have to be doing anything wrong to get stopped and harassed by the pigs, especially if you're a young black male. But your abject prostration before authority is noted and, I'm sure, appreciated. I agree. All they need to do is suspect you of anything. With items like the PATRIOT ACT and the NDAA, it has articles in there that allow police and military to detain American citizens for no reason and indefinitely. They do not have to give you a reason as to why you are being detained/arrested. But now we get to a point where people say 'well this is legal', and throw their arms up saying 'whadya gonna do'. This is happening because of mentalities like that. Some don't even want to talk about it, as it would destroy their current worldview in which they are comfortable believing. Reality is showing us something drastically different. 'Well, it's not that bad here, go overseas.' I'd like to prevent that from coming to our cities. I'd like to bring the country back up instead of pushing it farther down the hole. If something is not done it WILL be as bad as it is overseas. I am not advocating for violence against these kinds of police actions. But as I paraphrase Celente 'when peaceful change is not possible, violence will be the last option'. The police and their actions are not leading to a peaceful society. I would argue that it is making us less safe and way more dangerous. Edited December 9, 2014 by GostHacked Quote
eyeball Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 We're getting off topic, but the point remains that legal police procedures can and does result in the death of perps and bystanders. Until that changes (laws, police unions, victims advocacy, etc.), nothing is going to be different.Living in hope? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
jbg Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 What reason was there at that instant to use physical force on Garner?Apparently none. Why was it even necessary to take him into custody for such a trivial offense?Should not have been needed on such an offense, unless he had a lot of desk appearance tickets (slang term is disappearance tickets) outstanding. The issue appears to be that cops, whether as part of their training or just something hardwired into their tiny pig brains, seldom attempt to deescalate these situations, preferring to roll up with (metaphorical, but sometimes literal) guns blazing.Agree but without the pejorative and unnecessary term "pig brains." Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 That is part of my point, you were SCARED to get shot by a cop when he is demanding your ID. He treated YOU like a suspected terrorists and not an American citizen.I don't know that he treated me badly. At the time everyone was jumpy and I didn't want an escalation of the situation. Maybe some citizens don't have my skills as a lawyer to avoid confrontation where needed. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Bryan Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 First off, Garner wasn't resisting arrest, at least by any reasonable person's definition of resisting. It was much closer to resisting than it was to a choke hold. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 It was much closer to resisting than it was to a choke hold. Apparently you saw a different video than the rest of us. Quote
Argus Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 First off, Garner wasn't resisting arrest First off, yes he was. He argued with the cops for some time, then cops told him to put his hands behind his back and he ignored them. When they grabbed for his arms he twisted away saying "don't touch me!", at which one of the cops grabbed him from behind to put him down. Second, you've already seen numerous examples that show that you don't actually have to be doing anything to end up on the wrong end of a cop's baton or bullet. It happens, on occasion, but it isn't often someone gets shot by police who wasn't a criminal and wasn't putting up any kind of fight. Nor do you have to be doing anything wrong to get stopped and harassed by the pigs in the first place, especially if you're a young black male. That's an entirely different story. But your abject prostration before authority is noted and, I'm sure, appreciated.[/size] Oh bullshit. Just because I don't spout old sixties anarchist crap about 'the pigs' and ignore context doesn't make me any less capable of judging the authorities wrong when I believe they did wrong. I've posted numerous criticisms of police in the past. Unlike you, though, my indignation is based on circumstances, not juvenile anti-authority crap. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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