Ferguson unrest

[Black Dog]

Total hyperbole, the state isn't sanctioning any execution of citizens for stealing anything. It's this type of sanctimonious nonsense that causes problems. The jury weighed all the evidence and witness testimony before reaching their decision after separating fact from fiction.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/us/witnesses-told-grand-jury-that-michael-brown-charged-at-darren-wilson-prosecutor-says.html

The most credible eyewitnesses to the shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., said he had charged toward Police Officer Darren Wilson just before the final, fatal shots, the St. Louis County prosecutor said Monday night as he sought to explain why a grand jury had not found probable cause to indict the officer.

The accounts of several other witnesses from the Ferguson neighborhood where Mr. Brown, 18 and unarmed, met his death on Aug. 9 — including those who said Mr. Brown was trying to surrender — changed over time or were inconsistent with physical evidence, the prosecutor, Robert P. McCulloch, said in a news conference.

Unlike the cops, whose story has been so consistent throughout.

[cybercoma]

But he did try to steal the weapon.

I would expect a reasonable person to not want to be in close quarters with a person willing to do that unless they were completely submissive. And dude was huge.

Yes. He was a big scary black man. The poor little white cop was scared for his life and had no other choice but to kill him. Never mind the training he has had to diffuse situations and subdue people with non-lethal force. Clearly the only option was to kill the unarmed teenager. Not at point blank, where the altercation for the weapon allegedly took place, but at over 100' away. He also needed to completely unload his magazine into him....just to be sure.

[Black Dog]

Just gonna set this here.

[Hal 9000]

Of course he was menacing. Of course he was going for the cop's gun. Whether Brown was doing those things or not, the cop who shot him and his brothers in arms would certainly say that.

The Ferguson Police have a history of corruption and racist violence.

Don't you find it the least bit odd that they seem to find non-lethal solutions for white criminals even when they too attack the police? Even the way the media reports white crime is from the narrative of "transgressions" or "mistakes," while black crime is often depicted as out of control thuggery.

Commentary today sanctions Brown's death because he committed a crime.

He allegedly stole a pack of smokes.

He had no trial. The shop owner's lawyers say the shop owner didn't even identify him as the robber.

This morning there are more people worried and upset at the destruction of property than they are or were over the taking of a human life. It continues the narrative that black lives are expendable. That their crimes, as innocuous as lifting a pack of smokes, deserve death or incarceration. This is one of the many reasons why blacks are given disproportionately longer sentences and more jail time than white criminals.

We can criticize these people for looting, rioting, and burning down businesses. They should be criticized for that. But to value property—literally things—over human life is baffling.

These riots may seem senseless at first glance, but we're talking about people who are fighting back against a state that has sanctioned violence against their community. Commentary today values property over the killing of an unarmed black teenager. His death is condoned by those who say he deserved to die for stealing a pack of smokes. His death is condoned by a state that refuses to indict or try the officer for killing someone when neither his life nor the life of others were in danger.

So why do they go destroying businesses? Because the police, who are the tools with which an oppressive state murders unarmed black teens, are supposed to stop those things from happening. The police exercise the state's oppressive power with murder, but are also supposed to uphold the law and protect these businesses. By rioting, burning, and looting these business, these people are denying the state its power over them. By denying the police's power over them, they are rebuking their oppression. It sends a clear message that an unethical state that oppresses people will not be obeyed and further has no power over anyone without their co-operation.

That's the message that's being sent, but the narrative will continue to be "black thugs harm innocent people" because very few people want to delve into the context and understand the social forces at play here beyond sound bites and headlines.

It's a fact that Brown stole smokes and it's a fact that Brown was shot, however, it's not factual to say Brown was shot because he stole a pack of smokes

[cybercoma]

I'm saying, people are using that to excuse his murder.

[cybercoma]

Just gonna set this here.

Yeah. Nobody cares. Another thug got what was coming to him. [/narrative]

[Big Guy]

Both sides had the opportunity to present their cases. An impartial group of people considered the evidence and decided that there were no grounds to indict. Justice was served. The system works.

As usual, the parasites and human hyenas gravitated to the location, took advantage of the emotions of the people in the area and used them as cover to do their dirty.

Burning the businesses of innocent people, burning the cars of innocent people looting and stealing from innocent people is not a protest, it is the work of criminals. What I saw of some of the action I noticed that most of the rioters had their faces covered. I guess they were "protesting" but did not want to be identified.

Justice was served ... until the next time.

[scribblet]

Both sides had the opportunity to present their cases. An impartial group of people considered the evidence and decided that there were no grounds to indict. Justice was served. The system works.

As usual, the parasites and human hyenas gravitated to the location, took advantage of the emotions of the people in the area and used them as cover to do their dirty.

Burning the businesses of innocent people, burning the cars of innocent people looting and stealing from innocent people is not a protest, it is the work of criminals. What I saw of some of the action I noticed that most of the rioters had their faces covered. I guess they were "protesting" but did not want to be identified.

Justice was served ... until the next time.

Exactly...

[cybercoma]

Jim Crow laws don't exist anymore. Instead, cops walk free when they kill black kids in the streets and black people are given disproportionately long sentences after being disproportionately stopped and disproportionately arrested for the same activities as white youth. In fact, whites are more likely to abuse drugs and have substance abuse problems, yet blacks are ten times more likely to be arrested and convicted for drug-related offences. This is what systemic racial oppression looks like, whether you want to open your eyes to it or not.

[scribblet]

You want to have a reasonable conversation or hurl insults? Your choice. With this kind of opening, you sound like you want to just hurl insults. I'm not interested in going down that road. So if you want to have a discussion, address my arguments like a reasonable person and I will respond to you.

I only insulted the hyperbole and fabrications which were completely unreasonable.

[cybercoma]

Justice was served. The system works.

Yeah....and OJ didn't kill Nicole. Justice was served. An impartial jury heard the facts.

[cybercoma]

I only insulted the hyperbole and fabrications which were completely unreasonable.

A great way to start a dialogue is to tell someone they're completely unreasonable and engaging in hyperbole, saying that their arguments are "sanctimonious nonsense."

Hold on a second while I try to have a discussion with that kind of open mindedness.

Edited November 25, 2014 by cybercoma

[Boges]

Jim Crow laws don't exist anymore. Instead, cops walk free when they kill black kids in the streets and black people are given disproportionately long sentences after being disproportionately stopped and disproportionately arrested for the same activities as white youth. In fact, whites are more likely to abuse drugs and have substance abuse problems, yet blacks are ten times more likely to be arrested and convicted for drug-related offences. This is what systemic racial oppression looks like, whether you want to open your eyes to it or not.

I don't think anyone will disagree that institutional racism exists in the US.

But the facts in this case can't be influenced by those things.

Now if the argument is being made that the same institutional racism got this officer off then I would expect the federal government should intervene. He can still face Federal charges I hear.

[Argus]

Speaking of facts, how about the fact that Brown was 150 feet away from Wilson when the fatal shots were fired,

That is not a fact, actually. Try again.

[Boges]

Yeah....and OJ didn't kill Nicole. Justice was served. An impartial jury heard the facts.

So the justice system premise that there can be no "reasonable doubt" of guilt is wrong?

[Argus]

A state that sanctions the execution of its own citizens without trial for something as innocuous as stealing a pack of smokes is no state that I would want to be a part of. Reading the commentary today, people are vastly more concerned about the destruction of property than they are about the people being killed. It's a sad and twisted morality.

Brown wasn't killed because he stole cigars. He was killed because he violently attacked an armed police officer.

[Black Dog]

That is not a fact, actually. Try again.

OK: 135 feet.

[Black Dog]

Both sides had the opportunity to present their cases. An impartial group of people considered the evidence and decided that there were no grounds to indict. Justice was served. The system works.

Bah ha ha. So many assumptions.

[Hal 9000]

OK: 135 feet.

135 from the car, not from Wilson. Also, Brown's blood was found farther than 135 feet away, which means that he coming toward Wilson when the final 10 shots were fired.

[Argus]

You're acting like that altercation actually happened. This wasn't some wrestling match between the two where the officer shot him as he was trying to take his gun. Michael Brown was shot over 100 feet away from the officer and had his hands in the air. That was corroborated by numerous witnesses. Do you honestly believe there is absolutely no non-lethal method for handling the situation at that point?

The grand jury heard testimony from many witnesses, and apparently those who said he had his hands in he air lacked credibility. And Brown was shot while he was in the car with the officer, while he was being chased, and after he turned on the officer, according to the testimony accepted by the grand jury, of which you were not a part. Witnessed put the shots at anywhere from 4 feet to 50 feet during the altercation.

"Just coming straight at me like he was going to run right through me. And when he gets about that 8 to 10 feet away, I look down, I remember looking at my sites and firing, all I see is his head and that's what I shot.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/justice/ferguson-grand-jury-documents/index.html

[Argus]

Of course he was menacing. Of course he was going for the cop's gun. Whether Brown was doing those things or not, the cop who shot him and his brothers in arms would certainly say that.

And other witnesses, and the physical evidence, which you are determined to ignore.

Fact is, if Brown were white he'd still be dead, and you wouldn't give a damn.

[Argus]

So if you want to have a discussion, address my arguments like a reasonable person and I will respond to you.

I'm sorry, you had arguments? All I've seen from you so far is determined efforts to portray Brown as an innocent child, victim of an oppressive society which was too cruel to accept such a gentle, and harmless little boy's presence among its members.

[Black Dog]

135 from the car, not from Wilson. Also, Brown's blood was found farther than 135 feet away, which means that he coming toward Wilson when the final 10 shots were fired.

How far did Wilson move from the car? Are you saying the officer was in such fear for his life that he got out of his car and followed the guy he was terrified would kill him with a single punch?

[Argus]

Says the cop. We don't have any physical evidence that was the case. All we know is that there was a struggle for the weapon and that it was fired twice in the process.

If you ignore Brown's blood on the gun, and on the cop's uniform, and in the car, the bruising on the cop, the bullet fired into the roof of the car, yeah, we can say we don't have any physical evidence, I suppose.

But that would be dumb.

135 feet. Look at it this way: if Wilson was standing at home plate on a baseball diamond, Brown would have been about 10 feet behind second base in centre field when he was killed and that was

Sheer ignorance. Brown was not shot while 135 feet away from the cop. He was shot while 135 feet away from the CAR.

Why don't you actually read the reports before posting worthless nonsense? According to testimony Brown ran from the car, and the cop chased him, firing, and then Brown turned and headed back towards the cop. Various eyewitnesses put the gunfire as occurring anywhere from 4 feet to 50 feet distance between the two men.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

I'm saying, people are using that to excuse his murder.

Apparently you think the term 'murder' is a legal concept which describes any killing of a non-white person by a White person for any reason whatsoever.