Ferguson unrest

[Shady]

And out on bail for doing exactly what the police found him doing again anyway. What do you want them to do, give him a kiss?

Yes, apparently we can all decide now if we agree with an arrest. And if we don't, we can all tell the police to stop bothering us. And they must listen.

[Smallc]

The chokehold was banned because it causes death. Using it is illegal and can be expected to cause death.

.

Done properly, it's designed to cause the other person to pass out long before they die. In this case, he had his arm across the throat and was not doing a proper chokehold.

[jacee]

Done properly, it's designed to cause the other person to pass out long before they die. In this case, he had his arm across the throat and was not doing a proper chokehold.

It was banned. They weren't supposed to use it at all.

.

Edited December 14, 2014 by jacee

[Smallc]

I thought we had this discussion earlier that IT was not yet banned for police officers. Also, there was some discussion over whether he was actuallu doing one or not.

[Michael Hardner]

Pointing this shit out is also against the forum rules. You're supposed to "report and ignore it."

And here you are encouraging him.

Augh... well you're right. In my defense it seemed like an innocuous mistake by the original poster, and a gentle reminder by another member... but yes, "report and ignore" is the proper way to go. Sorry for my mistake.

[Argus]

I thought we had this discussion earlier that IT was not yet banned for police officers. Also, there was some discussion over whether he was actuallu doing one or not.

I don't think it was a formal 'choke hold' but that doesn't mean he didn't have his arm around the guy's neck and wasn't impeding his breathing.

[Peter F]

An effort to kill Garner would need to be proven. What we have here is an overreaction.

What we don't need is those who are tasked with policing over-reacting. They should be the ones who should definitely not be over-reacting. I don't think cops over-reacting should be passed off as a mere bad-day.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Peter F

[Smallc]

I don't know. We can train humans to any level we choose, but they're still just humans, and so mistakes will still happen.

[Black Dog]

I thought we had this discussion earlier that IT was not yet banned for police officers. Also, there was some discussion over whether he was actuallu doing one or not.

The NYPD banned chokeholds back in 1993.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Black Dog

[Shady]

The NYPD banned chokeholds back in 1993.

How long ago was resisting arrest made illegal?

[Black Dog]

How long ago was resisting arrest made illegal?

Irrelevant to the discussion. Go back under the bridge.

[Shady]

Irrelevant to the discussion. Go back under the bridge.

Not irrelevant, but definitely inconvenient.

[Argus]

"The perpetrator’s condition did not seem serious and he did not appear to get worse.” - Sergeant Kizzy Adoni, the Black woman who was the supervising sergeant at the arrest of Eric Garner, testifying before the grand jury.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Argus

[Black Dog]

Not irrelevant, but definitely inconvenient.

Not really, no.

"The perpetrator’s condition did not seem serious and he did not appear to get worse.” - Sergeant Kizzy Adoni, the Black woman who was the supervising sergeant at the arrest of Eric Garner, testifying before the grand jury.

So since she's a black woman, we're supposed to accept her version at face value? Because black women surely couldn't be part of the thin blue line?

[Smallc]

Not really, no.

So since she's a black woman, we're supposed to accept her version at face value? Because black women surely couldn't be part of the thin blue line?

And the person being arrested couldn't have possibly contributed to his own situation?

[Black Dog]

And the person being arrested couldn't have possibly contributed to his own situation?

The point, which you guys continue to miss (whether from ignorance or on purpose, I don't know) is that regardless of the extent to which Garner was resisting arrest, the method the officer used to force him to comply was specifically prohibited by the police department that employed him, which is why the officer is currently under investigation by that department's internal affairs section.

[cybercoma]

I don't know. We can train humans to any level we choose, but they're still just humans, and so mistakes will still happen.

I find it incredibly disturbing that you would pass off someone's completely unnecessary death at the hands of another person as mere "mistake" borne of humanity's fallibility.

Sorry about your son, father, brother, uncle. Mistakes happen. *shrugs*

There's just no words for that kind of thinking.

[bush_cheney2004]

There are words for such thinking....involuntary manslaughter....voluntary manslaughter....criminal vehicular homicide....negligence resulting in death..etc.

[cybercoma]

Not irrelevant, but definitely inconvenient.

Inconvenient how? Your broken logic is saying that it's ok for cops to ignore the rules when someone resists arrest. I don't need to tell you how stupid and wrong that idea is.

[cybercoma]

Not really, no.

So since she's a black woman, we're supposed to accept her version at face value? Because black women surely couldn't be part of the thin blue line?

His condition didn't appear to be bad, despite him telling them he couldn't breathe and subsequently dying because....get this....he couldn't breathe.

[cybercoma]

There are words for such thinking....involuntary manslaughter....voluntary manslaughter....criminal vehicular homicide....negligence resulting in death..etc.

Why do you continue to reply to me? Go troll someone else.

[Smallc]

I find it incredibly disturbing that you would pass off someone's completely unnecessary death at the hands of another person as mere "mistake" borne of humanity's fallibility.

Sorry about your son, father, brother, uncle. Mistakes happen. *shrugs*

There's just no words for that kind of thinking.

He was arrested 30 times, was breaching his conditions, and resisted arrest. I'm having trouble seeing him as being faultless.

[J-inTJr.]

Maybe, just maybe, if you are morbidly obese, more than a hundred pounds overweight, and suffering from a variety of health problems including breathing problems, and if you've been arrested some thirty times in the last few years, and if you are openly violating the law right in front of police officers, you really should refrain from resisting arrest.

Or maybe if you are black you should get a free pass to do whatever you want to do and we should declare a state of anarchy and amnesty for blacks because over a century after slavery and trillions of whites' taxpayer dollars spent on trying to help inner city blacks to improve their lot in life, the bill still has not been paid. Or so Al Not-So-Sharpton and other race baiters and hustlers would have you believe.

[poochy]

I find it incredibly disturbing that you would pass off someone's completely unnecessary death at the hands of another person as mere "mistake" borne of humanity's fallibility.

Sorry about your son, father, brother, uncle. Mistakes happen. *shrugs*

There's just no words for that kind of thinking.

There are words, many, reality being just one of them, the reality that in the real world sometimes the holes in the cheese line up and unintended bad things happen as a result, sometimes people even die. You believe that we should be able to control everything all of the time and ensure that no possible mistake or negligence of any kind ever happens when it comes to policing? That isn't rational, the dead man started the chain of events that lead to his death, it shouldn't have worked out that way, but on that day decisions were made and they worked out badly. They didn't intend to kill him, no more than he planned on resisting while getting arrested when he got up that morning. There are many thousands of arrests every day, very few resist, very few of them are seriously harmed, very few of those die. That's how the real world works, some of you seem to be determined to live in a world of your own making, i am afraid though that it will never supplant this one, if you are being arrested, be nice, better yet, don't be a criminal, if you have been arrested 30 times before, well, be extra nice.

[Smallc]

I find it incredibly disturbing that you would pass off someone's completely unnecessary death at the hands of another person as mere "mistake" borne of humanity's fallibility.

Sorry about your son, father, brother, uncle. Mistakes happen. *shrugs*

There's just no words for that kind of thinking.

Then you don't live in the real world.