How Trudeau is winning my vote

[On Guard for Thee]

So overthere, are you saying that Harper is "empty, fatuous, and spouting meaningless bullshit"? I thought he was your man!

[Big Guy]

Which is exactly the same stance that Harper, Mulcair, and May have on abortion.

More empty, fatuous, meaningless bullshit from The Hair That Walks Like a Man

I disagree with that assessment.

Justin should thank those seven former Liberals. According to all political pundits in the media, Trudeau was thrown a fast ball – and hit it right out of the park!

His “ the days when old men get to decide what a woman does with her body are long gone." was run and rerun on TV.

Justin had been known to put his foot in his mouth when asked to speak off the cuff. Looks like his handlers were ready for this one and certainly fed him the right lines.

Point to Justin.

[waldo]

Which is exactly the same stance that Harper, Mulcair, and May have on abortion.

More empty, fatuous, meaningless bullshit from The Hair That Walks Like a Man

no Mr. Speaker! .... in this matter, Harper has been anything but perfectly clear!

please sir, I do believe your continued statements on "hair walking" are nothing more than your, as stated, "empty, fatuous, meaningless bullshit"

[On Guard for Thee]

Harper has been anything but clear on abortion. He says he "has no plans to reopen the abortion debate" What does that mean? I have no plans for dinner tonight, but I plan to have dinner tonight. JT doesn't seek to stop anyone from having their own views, just as long as they don't seek to have their views override someone elses, (women's) rights. Harper may well be in contravention of the CHA by allowing NB to not fund an abortion clinic in that province. Where's the clarity?

[Keepitsimple]

Harper has been anything but clear on abortion. He says he "has no plans to reopen the abortion debate" What does that mean? I have no plans for dinner tonight, but I plan to have dinner tonight. JT doesn't seek to stop anyone from having their own views, just as long as they don't seek to have their views override someone elses, (women's) rights. Harper may well be in contravention of the CHA by allowing NB to not fund an abortion clinic in that province. Where's the clarity?

Although you might like everyone to think the way that you do - the world - and democracy - doesn't work that way. When polls ask the right questions, a majority of Canadians would like a lot of freedom on abortion - but SOME manner of control.....as opposed to Abortion on Demand. And why should that be a surprise - every Western country has legislated some balance between Women's rights and Right to Life. Like them, Canadians are all over the map - some in the Abortion on Demand camp, some in the anti-abortion camp - and a whole bunch that are somewhere in between. There is no clarity. That's why Harper's position is in fact, very clear - he will not re-open any debate on abortion while he is Prime Minister. Trudeau and the Liberals are free to adopt a policy that excludes candidates who hold views similar to many of their constituents......but goose-stepping the party on matters of conscience might not end up being that popular.

[On Guard for Thee]

JT is just much more clear about his clarity. You can have whatever views you want, you just can't enact laws that backpedal us into an issue we have already dealt with, through some very trying times, in this country. IF Harper is true to his word than we won't have to worry about it anymore.

[Mighty AC]

That's why Harper's position is in fact, very clear - he will not re-open any debate on abortion while he is Prime Minister. Trudeau and the Liberals are free to adopt a policy that excludes candidates who hold views similar to many of their constituents......but goose-stepping the party on matters of conscience might not end up being that popular.

I think it's just that typical conservative lag in ethics caused by the age of typical CPC supporters. Harper has to balance his con base with the more progressive beliefs of the Canadian population as a whole. A tough spot to be in for sure. His aged and Christian base would love for him to shut it down while most of the voters want choice. His response has been to not give a position but refuse to bring up the subject. Basically he is sitting on the fence to avoid angering either his base or the majority of Canadians. I don't blame him for that, but I don't respect that position either.

JT's audience is the center-left and he has has taken the ethical stance of saying he will not allow his party to take away choice. For his audience that position is no more dangerous than saying Liberal MPs are not allowed to be anti-black or anti-gay. Given a little time this will be the normal ethical position for cons too, it just naturally lags due to age and/or superstition.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Keepitsimple]

JT is just much more clear about his clarity. You can have whatever views you want, you just can't enact laws that backpedal us into an issue we have already dealt with, through some very trying times, in this country. IF Harper is true to his word than we won't have to worry about it anymore.

On Guard......with Trudeau's dictate, the majority of Canadians will never have their views expressed through a Liberal MP. You consider this to be a good thing? To my knowledge, he's the first leader in Canadian history who has barred people from the party in matters of conscience. Here's a pretty comprehensive survey from 2012 - which is consistent with others over the years......60% of Canadians would like some restriction on abortions.

Not surprisingly, at least to me - women favour restrictions more than men. Have a look - the squeaky wheel of the Left gets heard through the media but the facts say something completely different. Abortion on Demand - Trudeau's view - is not close to being the majority view.

Canadian Values Poll: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/04/new-poll-shows-most-canadians-support-abortion-with-some-restrictions/

[guyser]

On Guard......with Trudeau's dictate, the majority of Canadians will never have their views expressed through a Liberal MP. You consider this to be a good thing? To my knowledge, he's the first leader in Canadian history who has barred people from the party in matters of conscience. Here's a pretty comprehensive survey from 2012 - which is consistent with others over the years......60% of Canadians would like some restriction on abortions.

Not surprisingly, at least to me - women favour restrictions more than men. Have a look - the squeaky wheel of the Left gets heard through the media but the facts say something completely different. Abortion on Demand - Trudeau's view - is not close to being the majority view.

Canadian Values Poll: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/04/new-poll-shows-most-canadians-support-abortion-with-some-restrictions/

You really should read your own link.

60% support what? What are they supporting? There are but a mere hanful of third term abortions, no one gets on just because.

And NO Dr will do them, anywhere, just because.

Did the poll ask that? Nope.

In the first graph, only 6% want no abortions. That leaves 94% who say, go ahead. I doubt realistically one can extrapolate the number by combining the two end graphs, however it would appear that overwhelmingly the law should remain as is.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Guyser2

[On Guard for Thee]

That's about what I got from the link as well. But just to back up a step first, it seems you laud what you call Harper's were he won't allow a vote as long as he's in, but JT's much more clearly stated approach which seeks the same outcome is a "dictate" You don't see the contradiction?

[Argus]

and another Thumbs up on that!

It's funny. I saw an opinion piece today which said Trudeau's response, his attitude of contempt and insult towards those who didn't agree with him (even from his own party) were exactly the same sort of response Harper gives his critics.

But that's okay, right, because he's a Liberal.

[Argus]

JT is just much more clear about his clarity. You can have whatever views you want,

As long as you say what I tell you, do what I tell you, and vote how I tell you.

Yup, a new era free from that 'controlling' Stephen Harper will soon be at hand!

[Argus]

JT's audience is the center-left and he has has taken the ethical stance of saying he will not allow his party to take away choice.

This is so much utter nonsense I can hardly believe you actually posted it where others could read it.

NOBODY in any position of authority is arguing for eliminating "choice". This was never an issue. The Conservatives have been in power for 8 years, a majority for almost four, and haven't even touched the issue. Trudeau INVENTED it as an issue by basically telling everyone the Liberal party was the Trudeau party, and they either agreed with him on every issue or got out.

Today, a bunch of Liberals wrote a respectful public letter and he replied with a sneer and the back of his hand. "Nobody cares about what you think, you old gray hairs!" Niiiice.

You people are such hypocrites. You hate that nasty, controlling Stephen Harper who's all about image but you do cartwheels in glee at the nasty, controlling Justin Trudeau who's all about image! If you think you're going to get any openness or any power for anyone outside the PMO from this guy you're dreaming in technicolor.

[Argus]

On Guard......with Trudeau's dictate, the majority of Canadians will never have their views expressed through a Liberal MP. You consider this to be a good thing? To my knowledge, he's the first leader in Canadian history who has barred people from the party in matters of conscience.

No, the NDP have been doing it for a while now.

[Peter F]

It's funny. I saw an opinion piece today which said Trudeau's response, his attitude of contempt and insult towards those who didn't agree with him (even from his own party) were exactly the same sort of response Harper gives his critics.

But that's okay, right, because he's a Liberal.

No kidding, you actually saw that somewhere? Wow. The response is something I agree wholeheartedly with and when Harper gives the same response I will say "I hate that F****er, but I like what he said".

Unbeleivable but True!

[Argus]

No kidding, you actually saw that somewhere? Wow. The response is something I agree wholeheartedly with and when Harper gives the same response I will say "I hate that F****er, but I like what he said".

Unbeleivable but True!

So you're okay with authoritarian PMs who act like nasty bastards as long as you agree with their political views. Got it.

[Mighty AC]

You people are such hypocrites. You hate that nasty, controlling Stephen Harper who's all about image but you do cartwheels in glee at the nasty, controlling Justin Trudeau who's all about image!

Do you think Stephen Harper would allow open anti-Semites or racists to represent the CPC? I doubt it. I see choice on abortion as an ethical issue on par with racism.

JT and Steve-O are ultimately achieving the same thing for political reasons, just from opposite directions. JT by taking a progressive, ethical position. Harper by fence sitting and avoiding debate, in an effort to appease both a regressive base and a more progressive population.

[On Guard for Thee]

Sorry Argus, but all JT said was don't vote to take away women's rites. The rest of your post is just fluffy nonsense.

[Keepitsimple]

Sorry Argus, but all JT said was don't vote to take away women's rites. The rest of your post is just fluffy nonsense.

Read the poll I posted. 61% of women would like some restriction on abortion. That majority of women don't think their rights would be taken away. Trudeau made up that line and dupes like yourself have swallowed the bait. This isn't Harper versus Trudeau....it's about someone dictating who can be a Liberal. It's not worth debating further. Regardless of the loud Left, Canadians will follow their conscience.

[dre]

So you're okay with authoritarian PMs who act like nasty bastards as long as you agree with their political views. Got it.

Well... parties are supposed to reflect certain political views and stand for certain things. The old guard ran the liberal party into the ground, and they were losing elections. JT is expected to change that, and thats going to mean taking positions on certain things, and its going to mean some ideas and people are not going to fit in anymore. Some people will see this the way that you do (lets face it you would hate him no matter WHAT he did) and some people will see his willingness to take on some in his own party as a positive thing.

So far... polls seem to suggest that hes helping the party.

[On Guard for Thee]

It's already been pointed out to you simple, that 61% you speak of talk about restrictions on abortions after 3rd trimester. Just doesn't happen (unless some serious medical situation) . Doc's won't do it, just because, remember?

[dre]

Read the poll I posted. 61% of women would like some restriction on abortion. That majority of women don't think their rights would be taken away. Trudeau made up that line and dupes like yourself have swallowed the bait. This isn't Harper versus Trudeau....it's about someone dictating who can be a Liberal. It's not worth debating further. Regardless of the loud Left, Canadians will follow their conscience.

So what? Theres no risk for Trudeau here. What do you think that Canadians who favor some restrictions are going to do when they follow their conscience? Vote for Harper? Of course not... hes not compaigning on restricting abortion either. Trudeau was smart to suppress the womb-goons in his party for the same reason that harper has done it for 8 years.

Even if a majority believes there should be some restrictions on abortion most people realize those restrictions are already there and theres almost no late term elective abortions in this country.

So if you ask a different question?

July 21, 2014 – Survey results from Angus Reid Global (ARG) indicate Canadians have little desire to re-introduce abortion laws in this country.

The survey shows the majority of adult Canadians polled (59%) say they are “fine” with no law restricting abortion.

One-fifth (23%) say the federal government should create legislation that “imposes some restrictions” on abortion, while ten per cent would prefer to see access to abortion restricted, except in special cases.

The survey shows the majority of adult Canadians polled (59%) say they are “fine” with no law restricting abortion

So tell me... are those the "loud left"? Or are they the "Canadians following their conscience?"

Edited September 20, 2014 by dre

[dre]

It's already been pointed out to you simple, that 61% you speak of talk about restrictions on abortions after 3rd trimester. Just doesn't happen (unless some serious medical situation) . Doc's won't do it, just because, remember?

Right... and thats why theres very little support for Federal legislation.

[On Guard for Thee]

I know, it goes in never ending circles with this discussion. The point that seems to get swept under the rug is that no one is being forced to have an abortion. It's "choice". And who the hell would wait 20 weeks and then all of a sudden wake up one day and decide Oh I guess I'll go get an abortion today. I know that sounds silly but it seems some can't grasp that reality.

[PrimeNumber]

On Guard......with Trudeau's dictate, the majority of Canadians will never have their views expressed through a Liberal MP. You consider this to be a good thing? To my knowledge, he's the first leader in Canadian history who has barred people from the party in matters of conscience. Here's a pretty comprehensive survey from 2012 - which is consistent with others over the years......60% of Canadians would like some restriction on abortions.

Not surprisingly, at least to me - women favour restrictions more than men. Have a look - the squeaky wheel of the Left gets heard through the media but the facts say something completely different. Abortion on Demand - Trudeau's view - is not close to being the majority view.

Canadian Values Poll: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/04/new-poll-shows-most-canadians-support-abortion-with-some-restrictions/

The latest Angus Ried Polling from 2014, not 2012, shows that 59% of Canadians are okay with no abortion laws. Also 60% of women and 58% of men are okay with no abortion laws in Canada. Which are both up from last year and the year before. The Provinces also unanimously agree which wasn't always the case in past polling as well. I may not agree with Trudeau but he only doing what progressives do... being progressive.