An Environmental Disaster That Couldn't Happen

[Big Guy]

So we have another environmental disaster that was guaranteed never to happen. Does anybody really trust these companies to have any concern for the Canadian environment?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-mine-had-issues-with-rising-waste-water-ahead-of-breach-consultant-says/article19920040/

A tailings-pond breach in central British Columbia spewed enough waste water to fill 2,000 Olympic-sized swimming pools into the province’s pristine waterways and triggered a local state of emergency

“If you asked me two weeks ago if that could happen, I would have said it couldn’t happen,” he said at a media update in a community hall in Likely, B.C. “I know that for our company, it’s going to take a long time to earn the community’s trust back.”

It may take longer than a long time.

[Shady]

So we have another environmental disaster that was guaranteed never to happen. Does anybody really trust these companies to have any concern for the Canadian environment?

Yes. Because it's in their best interest to make sure things like this don't happen.

[WestCoastRunner]

Yes. Because it's in their best interest to make sure things like this don't happen.

It is, is it?

Imperial Mines was given 5 government warnings in the last few years:

"The ministry gave the company its latest of five warnings in May, this time for exceeding the permitted height of wastewater within its tailings pond.

Brian Olding, the environmental consultant who carried out the 2009 assessment for the company and local First Nations groups, says the pond levels were already getting too high five years ago. It means the water is rising, so you have to build the walls of the tailings lagoon higher as you go," Olding said."

I just don't understand why the government didn't shut them down. Bennett and this mining company are morally corrupt.

And of course, we keep being told that an oil leak from one of those double hulled tankers won't happen either if Northern Gateway ever happens. Sure, it won't.

[Bonam]

I just don't understand why the government didn't shut them down. Bennett and this mining company are morally corrupt.

And of course, we keep being told that an oil leak from one of those double hulled tankers won't happen either if Northern Gateway ever happens. Sure, it won't.

It will be unlikely if proper safety regulations are enforced. It sounds like in this case safety recommendations were not followed and the situation was allowed to get worse until the system failed. Clearly, safety regulations that exist, and which are conditions for a project such as northern gateway to go ahead, should be properly enforced. It is the responsibility of government to enforce them.

[WestCoastRunner]

. Clearly, safety regulations that exist, and which are conditions for a project such as northern gateway to go ahead, should be properly enforced. It is the responsibility of government to enforce them.

And we should trust the govt to enforce these regulations? Meanwhile, a potentially catastrophic event is happening right now in BC, affecting the fishing industry, tourism industry and a way of life for many people in that region. Sure, we should trust our politicians and resource companies because it's in their best interest to not let this happen.

[Bonam]

And we should trust the govt to enforce these regulations?

Well, what is the alternative? If you can't trust government to enforce its own regulations, what can you trust it to do? Can you trust it to intelligently permit or deny applications for these kinds of projects to begin with? To enforce civil and criminal law? To tax and spend money?

[Big Guy]

Perhaps the question is not "can you trust government ..." but can you trust this government. The Harper government has consistently indicated its view of environmental controls and those organizations who prioritize environment over development. Not every Canadian government has taken that stand.

[Shady]

Perhaps the question is not "can you trust government ..." but can you trust this government. The Harper government has consistently indicated its view of environmental controls and those organizations who prioritize environment over development. Not every Canadian government has taken that stand.

By this government, do you mean the B.C. government?

[On Guard for Thee]

I heard an interview with Bill Bennett today on CBC and he seemed to be either hiding from, or unaware of, the facts of the previous government warnings about this tailings pond. Do I trust the government? Not when they do that.

[Mighty AC]

Well, what is the alternative? If you can't trust government to enforce its own regulations, what can you trust it to do? Can you trust it to intelligently permit or deny applications for these kinds of projects to begin with? To enforce civil and criminal law? To tax and spend money?

Do you believe that a government that has gutted environmental protections, attacked charities and citizens groups and ended scientific testing all in an effort to get the pipelines flowing is actually interested in enforcing regulations? The Canadian federal government is going out of its way to remove regulations and our ability to detect breaches...so I don't trust this particular federal government to enforce any regulation designed to protect the natural environment from industrial waste.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Shady]

Do you believe that a government that has gutted environmental protections, attacked charities and citizens groups and ended scientific testing all in an effort to get the pipelines flowing is actually interested in enforcing regulations? The Canadian federal government is going out of its way to remove regulations and our ability to detect breaches...so I don't trust this particular federal government to enforce any regulation designed to protect the natural environment from industrial waste.

The Ministry of B.C. Energy and Mines did all that?

[WestCoastRunner]

I heard an interview with Bill Bennett today on CBC and he seemed to be either hiding from, or unaware of, the facts of the previous government warnings about this tailings pond. Do I trust the government? Not when they do that.

Bennett is lying. There was a breach back in May of this year. He was well aware of it and did not enforce further inspections to test the integrity of the dam. A former employee (foreman) went on record to confirm he saw the breach and so did Bennett. All they did was lower the water level. Bennett is well aware of the history of this company. Like I say, they are morally corrupt.

[WestCoastRunner]

The Ministry of B.C. Energy and Mines did all that?

Oh Shady, don't pretend to be so naive.

[Shady]

Oh Shady, don't pretend to be so naive.

Perhaps you should be directing your questions and concerns to that Ministry. Since it's suppose to be their job.

[eyeball]

Well, what is the alternative? If you can't trust government to enforce its own regulations, what can you trust it to do? Can you trust it to intelligently permit or deny applications for these kinds of projects to begin with? To enforce civil and criminal law? To tax and spend money?

You can't trust it to do anything, not without cameras attached to senior public officials, for the same reason cops are increasingly under pressure to wear them.

[On Guard for Thee]

Bennett is lying. There was a breach back in May of this year. He was well aware of it and did not enforce further inspections to test the integrity of the dam. A former employee (foreman) went on record to confirm he saw the breach and so did Bennett. All they did was lower the water level. Bennett is well aware of the history of this company. Like I say, they are morally corrupt.

I heard the former employee interview as well. Who knows he may have some sort of axe to grind but in any case it's early days and of course containing impact must come before fault finding. Sure as hell somebody was asleep at the wheel here.

[WestCoastRunner]

I heard the former employee interview as well. Who knows he may have some sort of axe to grind but in any case it's early days and of course containing impact must come before fault finding. Sure as hell somebody was asleep at the wheel here.

Test results should be back tomorrow, the initial ones anyway. It could have a major impact on the salmon heading this way for their spawning. They travel directly through that area.

[On Guard for Thee]

Test results should be back tomorrow, the initial ones anyway. It could have a major impact on the salmon heading this way for their spawning. They travel directly through that area.

Oh sure. It even affects the Fraser and this is supposed to be a record year for salmon returns. Yikes, bad timing. Not that there ever be good timing for such a thing.

[kimmy]

Shady actually has a very relevant point here.

This is on the company, of course, but it's also on the BC government. Their own inspectors gave this company 5 warnings about the state of their tailings pond, and nothing happened. If the government won't enforce the findings of its own regulatory arm, then the system is busted. The buck has to stop somewhere, and that should be somewhere in Victoria.

And yes, that should raise major questions about the Northern Gateway project. What good are their much-ballyhooed "209 conditions" if the government can't or won't enforce them?

-k

[On Guard for Thee]

Shady actually has a very relevant point here.

This is on the company, of course, but it's also on the BC government. Their own inspectors gave this company 5 warnings about the state of their tailings pond, and nothing happened. If the government won't enforce the findings of its own regulatory arm, then the system is busted. The buck has to stop somewhere, and that should be somewhere in Victoria.

And yes, that should raise major questions about the Northern Gateway project. What good are their much-ballyhooed "209 conditions" if the government can't or won't enforce them?

-k

If you read through those "209" you see they don't amount to a hill of beans mostly. What does is the recent SCC ruling that the fed gov has, instead of "a duty to consult" with regard to native people, they now have a "duty to obtain consult" . That will put the brakes on the NG pipe big time.

[waldo]

Shady actually has a very relevant point here.

This is on the company, of course, but it's also on the BC government. Their own inspectors gave this company 5 warnings about the state of their tailings pond, and nothing happened. If the government won't enforce the findings of its own regulatory arm, then the system is busted. The buck has to stop somewhere, and that should be somewhere in Victoria.

no - the federal government had prior shared oversight responsibility for all tailing ponds under the Navigable Waters Protection Act... prior to the 2012 Harper Conservative change to the (now renamed) "Navigation Protection Act", where effectively oversight was gutted for all but a "smallish smattering of identified waters and connecting tributaries"... Kimmy, do you see Quesnel Lake or Polley Lake in these bare bones, cut-down (i.e. gutted) lists?

[Shady]

no - the federal government had prior shared oversight responsibility for all tailing ponds under the Navigable Waters Protection Act... prior to the 2012 Harper Conservative change to the (now renamed) "Navigation Protection Act", where effectively oversight was gutted for all but a "smallish smattering of identified waters and connecting tributaries"... Kimmy, do you see Quesnel Lake or Polley Lake in these bare bones, cut-down (i.e. gutted) lists?

Why are you still ignoring the provincial dropping of the ball? Do they expect other jurisdictions to enforce their own regulations? Stop making excuses, and stop looking for Harper to blame.

[waldo]

Why are you still ignoring the provincial dropping of the ball? Do they expect other jurisdictions to enforce their own regulations? Stop making excuses, and stop looking for Harper to blame.

you continue to struggle with reading comprehension! I specifically referred to prior "SHARED" oversight (as in joint oversight). C'mon Shady, have you no actual comment on the Harper Conservative changes made... those I detailed? Is there a problem... for you?

stop making excuses and stop attempting to shift any blame/responsibility for this travesty away from the federal government... away from Harper Conservatives.

Edited August 7, 2014 by waldo

[GostHacked]

Waldo, and this is another reason I talk about toxicity over CO2. What a disaster.

[Big Guy]

I believe that this is just another example of the battle between guaranteeing the environment and development of resources. Not sure if there is an answer.

What bothers me is that initial reports indicate that the cost of cleanup will be more than the worth of the company responsible. It would help if any company developing these resources had to put into escrow the amount of money that would cover cleanup costs under the worst possible scenario but I guess there is no limit to the worst possible scenario.