Australia Repeals 'Useless' Carbon Tax

[bush_cheney2004]

Australia's Senate has voted to repeal their carbon emissions tax scheme:

Australia's Conservative government repealed a much-maligned carbon tax on the nation's worst greenhouse gas polluters on Thursday, ending years of contention over a measure that became political poison for the lawmakers who imposed it.

...

'Today, Tony Abbott has made Australia the first country in the world to reverse action on climate change.'- Opposition leader Bill Shorten

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/australia-s-carbon-tax-repealed-after-2-years-1.2709642

"Political poison" is exactly what I would expect for imposing such a scheme.

Congratulations to Australia for turfing such a useless and divisive tax on their economy.

Edited July 17, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Boges]

JT has said he will "put a price on carbon". I think that's a political third rail in Canada. The only way he'd be able to ram it through is not talk about it and hope to get elected anyway.

I would hope someone in the media would force him to say exactly how he'd implement a carbon tax.

[bush_cheney2004]

In Melbourne, even the dead could not escape the vile "carbon tax":

Erica Maliki and her family were burying her father-in-law at Springvale Cemetery when she was told the price per burial plot had increased because of the carbon tax. Her father-in-law died on June 30, the day before the carbon tax was introduced, and was buried early last week.

http://thetruthisnow.com/headlines/the-vile-immoral-carbon-tax-con-where-even-the-dead-have-to-pay/

Edited July 17, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Remiel]

It was repealed before the planned lower price could be introduced. And in other news, BCs carbon tax seems to be working. So I do not see what Australian conservatives as doing as particular important except as a demonstration of their lacklustre judgement.

[TimG]

And in other news, BCs carbon tax seems to be working.

There are way to many confounding variables to draw any such conclusion. The reality is that CO2 emissions have been dropping in a lot of jurisdictions whether they have a tax or not so the BC emissions would have likely dropped even if the tax was not introduced.

[waldo]

There are way to many confounding variables to draw any such conclusion. The reality is that CO2 emissions have been dropping in a lot of jurisdictions whether they have a tax or not so the BC emissions would have likely dropped even if the tax was not introduced.

based on this post, your credibility concerning the BC 'carbon tax' is quite suspect! Care to support your "confounding variables" claim that, in spite of you stating no such conclusion could be made, you're able to make a "would have likely dropped" conclusion?

[waldo]

Australia Repeals 'Useless' Carbon Tax

your referenced link offers nothing to validate your 'Useless' designation

.

[TimG]

And in other news, BCs carbon tax seems to be working.

By simply moving CO2 production to other juristictions:

http://www.cement.ca/en/Newsroom/CAC-President-and-CEO-addresses-BC-Select-Standing-Committee-on-Finance-and-Government.html

Before the carbon tax was instituted in 2008, most of the cement consumed in the province was made in BC.

At that time, imports had only 4% market share, usually because of specialized products. Now after 3 years of the carbon tax - imports have increased to an unprecedented 23% of market share. Why? Because imported cement is not subject to the BC carbon tax. Foreign cement powder comes into BC tax free.

[waldo]

By simply moving CO2 production to other juristictions:

http://www.cement.ca/en/Newsroom/CAC-President-and-CEO-addresses-BC-Select-Standing-Committee-on-Finance-and-Government.html

no - you're busted again: as follows, CO2(kt) for cement production in British Columbia... there has been no, as you say, "simply moving". Emissions have increased, year over year, since the carbon tax was introduced. Try again!

[Shady]

no - you're busted again: as follows, CO2(kt) for cement production in British Columbia... there has been no, as you say, "simply moving". Emissions have increased, year over year, since the carbon tax was introduced. Try again!

LOL! Just because emissions have increased nominally, doesn't mean carbon producing industries haven't moved out of the province. Your example is completely absurd.

[waldo]

LOL! Just because emissions have increased nominally, doesn't mean carbon producing industries haven't moved out of the province. Your example is completely absurd.

do you ever actually read? It's not my example... it's my refuting MLW member TimG's claim related to MLW member TimG's example. Talk about absurd... as in your response!

[bush_cheney2004]

Australia's GHG emissions were in decline years before the hated carbon tax was implemented two years ago. There were so many exemptions that only about 200 companies were actually subjected to the tax anyway. A flawed and now failed idea that achieved nothing.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Charles Anthony
removed unnecessary image

[waldo]

Australia's GHG emissions were in decline years before the hated carbon tax was implemented two years ago.

perfect! That sir... is attributed to Kyoto! And yes, in this specific case, mentioning Kyoto is a relevant, related and associated point to your post! As highlighted in the graphic below, with no further action, emissions are expected to increase. And, by the by, your tombstone graphic from WTFIUWT is a nice touch... clearly a reflection on that denier blog!

.

[Guest]

And in other news, BCs carbon tax seems to be working.

Well, I for one am glad to hear it. I was getting a bit worried about the whole Climate Change thing.

Way to go, BC!

[bush_cheney2004]

Just say NO to these climate change con artists.

Carbon taxes only reduce the amount of money in your wallet.

[Shady]

Just say NO to these climate change con artists.

Carbon taxes only reduce the amount of money in your wallet.

Bingo!

Not to mention that these Aussie politicians wouldn't be allowed on the BBC anymore!

[Shady]

Does anyone ever notice, that the proponents of carbon taxes, and higher taxes in general always bemoan the loss of manufacturing jobs? When they're in large part the very people orchestrating the departure of said manufacturing jobs with their anti-manufacturing policies. The very nerve of these people is almost unbelievable.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Shady

[waldo]

Just say NO to these climate change con artists.

Carbon taxes only reduce the amount of money in your wallet.

one would think if you had the wherewithal to start this thread, you might actually take some time to be better informed. In the case of the BC Carbon Tax, it's revenue neutral - all proceeds collected by the BC government are returned in the form of income tax cuts and rebates. From the Economist, no less: British Columbia's Carbon Tax - We Have a Winner

of course, it simply depends on how the tax is structured... perhaps you could attempt to support your statement with other examples - notwithstanding the outright 'tax and dividend' form of a carbon tax favoured by many, including the waldo (as previously discussed in another MLW thread).

equally, don't hesitate to support your phrasing, "climate change con artists"...

[waldo]

Bingo!

Not to mention that these Aussie politicians wouldn't be allowed on the BBC anymore!

have you had time now to realize your gaff in your earlier post in this thread - yes? In any case, ever the politician, when challenged earlier today, PM Abbott said he/his party wouldn't rule out the possibility of re-introducing a carbon tax in the future... ever the (Conservative) politician!

[waldo]

Does anyone ever notice, that the proponents of carbon taxes, and higher taxes in general always bemoan the loss of manufacturing jobs? When they're in large part the very people orchestrating the departure of said manufacturing jobs with their anti-manufacturing policies. The very nerve of these people is almost unbelievable.

I've not noticed that - care to support your broad based statement?

.

[bush_cheney2004]

Bump

[waldo]

Bump

care to explain your post?

[Michael Hardner]

Guys - images are ok if they are inline with the argument being presented, but don't post them otherwise. Thanks.

[TimG]

LOL! Just because emissions have increased nominally, doesn't mean carbon producing industries haven't moved out of the province. Your example is completely absurd.

I know. The data has nothing to do with my point that the market share of imported cement has increased. Nor does it refute the claim that BC cement mills are running at below capacity because their market is being displaced by imports. It is like waldo thinks that any data showing an uptrend and contains the word "cement" is a "refutation". A logical connection to the argument made is not necessary in waldo's mind. Edited July 18, 2014 by TimG

[waldo]

I know. The data has nothing to do with my point that the market share of imported cement has increased. Nor does it refute the claim that BC cement mills are running at below capacity because their market is being displaced by imports. It is like waldo thinks that any data showing an uptrend and contains the word "cement" is a "refutation". A logical connection to the argument made is not necessary in waldo's mind.

nice try! Your reply was a supposed counter to the statement suggesting "BC's carbon tax seems to be working". Working implies lowering fossil-fuel product consumption and, accordingly, attributed reduced emissions. Your provided link presents the President of the Cement Association of Canada stating his organization supports the tax putting a, as he states, "price on carbon consumption"... to, as he states, "pay the carbon tax (for) the coal it burns, so (it) would be incented to reduce emissions." Of course he's calling for a shift in applying the tax to ensure imported cement is also taxed.

your supposed counter claim stated/implied the BC carbon tax is working only because CO2 production (i.e., emissions) has, as you say, "simply been moved to other juristictions". Showing you the actual increase in CO2(kt) emissions for your example, for cement production in British Columbia, does not align with your statement/claim that relies upon your linked reference example. In your example's case, there has been no, as you say, "simply moving" emissions from one BC jurisdiction to another BC jurisdiction. Emissions associated with BC cement production have increased, year over year, since the carbon tax was introduced. You may be able to provide actual examples to support your statement/claim... in that regard, I encourage you to, as I say, "try again!".