Malaysian Airliner Reportedly Shot Down in east Ukraine

[GostHacked]

If that was MH370, where is MH17?

Was there an HM17 to begin with? Or was there an MH370 to begin with? I don't think I'd be flying Malaysian Airlines anytime soon. One more incident and they are going to cease to exist as an airline.

In certain circles, the missing MH370 never went missing, but was somehow hijacked. And you don't need people in the plane in order to hijack it. Some reports of it landing at Diego Garcia. Then where after that.. I have no idea. Apparently Boeing has the ability to track all their planes that operate commercially. New ones would have all that tracking built in. It's bloody expensive when a plane goes missing. So you want to make sure you have some 'insurance' on it in terms of tracking. A plane should not go missing with the global communications system that is in place. And via GPS and maybe some other company secret we have no idea about.

But it does seem odd that Malaysian Arlines would lose TWO planes within months of each other and both are of the Boeing 777-200ER variety. That model has had a few technical issues when it comes to their engines. We've seen airlines around the world that operate that model, grounding them until Boeing gives the 'ok we fixed the problem'.

Maybe Boeing has something to hide. Maybe I am asking too many questions which most here don't seem to like.

[dre]

This is not true. Or I would like to see a confirmation of these fairy tales.

And the most important question is: why would the Ukrainian army shoot on a civilian plane? On this particular plane, there are lots of them flying every day?

The Ukrainian army DIDNT shoot the plane, not sure where youre getting that. The Rebels shot it down thinking it was a Ukrainian military transport, with a AA device that they either got from Russia or stole from the Ukraine.

[Wilber]

How so?

Let me count the ways.

The Dutch of all people managed to hijack MH370 and somehow get it to Amsterdam without anyone knowing. bump off the passengers, hide the aircraft and preserve the bodies for four months without anyone knowing. They then magically changed all those Chinese bodies to European bodies, loaded them back onto the aircraft with a bunch of explosives, flew it remotely over East Ukraine and blew it up for no reason at all.

If that is still plausible to you, how about this. These aircraft have hundreds of components that have individual serial numbers. The aircraft manufacturer will have a record of the serial numbers of scores of those components on each aircraft when they deliver it to an airline. The maintenance records kept by the airline will have a history of the numbers of any of those components that have been changed since the aircraft was delivered. This is not optional, it is the law and is necessary to keep track of when components need to be changed or serviced and what maintenance is required on a component before it can go back on an aircraft.. Finding the serial number of any one of those components will be sufficient to identify that particular aircraft.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Wilber

[GostHacked]

Well, looks like the black boxes are heading to the UK. So, it should be interesting of what the boxes recorded.

[Wilber]

Well, looks like the black boxes are heading to the UK. So, it should be interesting of what the boxes recorded.

Probably not much other than what was happening before the missile hit.

[GostHacked]

Probably not much other than what was happening before the missile hit.

Why have we not heard the recordings of the traffic towers that would have handled this plane. Like we saw with MH370? It may not amount to anything, but why has that not been done?

[Wilber]

Why have we not heard the recordings of the traffic towers that would have handled this plane. Like we saw with MH370? It may not amount to anything, but why has that not been done?

Good question. Ask the Ukrainians and Russians.

[GostHacked]

Not to get into Israel....but to show as contrast in reactions.

Several US carriers have cancelled flights to Tel Aviv amid reports of rocket fire. I guess no one is taking chances. Other carriers avoided the contested region in eastern Ukraine after several military planes were downed.

And I can tell you those rockets being fired at Israel are nothing compared to the BUK launcher suite.

Wait .. whao..

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/22/travel/israel-flights-suspended/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

So the FAA has suspended ALL flights to Israel for the next 24hrs.

[Wilber]

Not to get into Israel....but to show as contrast in reactions.

Several US carriers have cancelled flights to Tel Aviv amid reports of rocket fire. I guess no one is taking chances. Other carriers avoided the contested region in eastern Ukraine after several military planes were downed.

And I can tell you those rockets being fired at Israel are nothing compared to the BUK launcher suite.

Wait .. whao..

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/22/travel/israel-flights-suspended/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

So the FAA has suspended ALL flights to Israel for the next 24hrs.

Not the same at all. The FAA has banned flights into Tel Aviv, I see nothing to indicate they have banned overflights.

[Big Guy]

Not to get into Israel....but to show as contrast in reactions.

Several US carriers have cancelled flights to Tel Aviv amid reports of rocket fire. I guess no one is taking chances. Other carriers avoided the contested region in eastern Ukraine after several military planes were downed.

And I can tell you those rockets being fired at Israel are nothing compared to the BUK launcher suite.

Wait .. whao..

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/22/travel/israel-flights-suspended/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

So the FAA has suspended ALL flights to Israel for the next 24hrs.

Israeli government officials have declared that the situation is an over reaction and the airport is absolutely safe.

Would you fly into Israel under these conditions?

[GostHacked]

Israeli government officials have declared that the situation is an over reaction and the airport is absolutely safe.

Would you fly into Israel under these conditions?

Well it is the reaction to the event in which I am talking about. There is a risk at Tel Aviv. There is a risk over east Ukraine. Nothing has been shot down over Tel Aviv... but a few military planes were shot down over east Ukraine.

[On Guard for Thee]

Was there an HM17 to begin with? Or was there an MH370 to begin with? I don't think I'd be flying Malaysian Airlines anytime soon. One more incident and they are going to cease to exist as an airline.

In certain circles, the missing MH370 never went missing, but was somehow hijacked. And you don't need people in the plane in order to hijack it. Some reports of it landing at Diego Garcia. Then where after that.. I have no idea. Apparently Boeing has the ability to track all their planes that operate commercially. New ones would have all that tracking built in. It's bloody expensive when a plane goes missing. So you want to make sure you have some 'insurance' on it in terms of tracking. A plane should not go missing with the global communications system that is in place. And via GPS and maybe some other company secret we have no idea about.

But it does seem odd that Malaysian Arlines would lose TWO planes within months of each other and both are of the Boeing 777-200ER variety. That model has had a few technical issues when it comes to their engines. We've seen airlines around the world that operate that model, grounding them until Boeing gives the 'ok we fixed the problem'.

Maybe Boeing has something to hide. Maybe I am asking too many questions which most here don't seem to like.

There are soo many reasons why this is nonsense. First of all Malaysian Airlines would probably know whether or not it had a flight MH17 or not. And that plane would have a pax manifest. And it would be rather hard don't you think, to find nearly 300 corpses who's DNA would match the DNA of the people on that pax manifest. And mightn't it be a bit tough to find a flight crew that wants to take a trip they know will end in their death? Or did they have chutes to be able to bail out before the bomb was to go off? And I have no idea how you go about hijacking a plane if you're not actually on the plane.

[Smallc]

That's all a bunch of nonsense. Let's stick to reality.

[On Guard for Thee]

Why have we not heard the recordings of the traffic towers that would have handled this plane. Like we saw with MH370? It may not amount to anything, but why has that not been done?

The FDR and CVR of this flight are apparently on their way to London so we will soon have the last 2 hours of what was said.

[Wilber]

There are soo many reasons why this is nonsense. First of all Malaysian Airlines would probably know whether or not it had a flight MH17 or not.

I'm pretty sure they would also know how many aircraft they have and whether it is one or two that are missing.

[On Guard for Thee]

I'm pretty sure they would also know how many aircraft they have and whether it is one or two that are missing.

Yes, there have been implications of certain gaps in Mayasian Air management, but I doubt they go to that extent.

[Argus]

Some people need to label antagonists on either side of a conflict as good or bad.

Are you saying that there are not "good" and "bad" antagonists sometimes? For example, a rapist is no more worthy of condemnation than his victim?

Would you condemn the slaughter in Cambodia under Pol Pot, or simply say "Well, there were sides, to this you know."? Would you say Nazi Germany was no worse than Poland? Were they both equally to blame when the Germans invaded? Do you know any history at all? Yes, sometimes you can cast blame on all parties, but sometimes it's clearly one party who is manoeuvrings for advantage and willing to kill thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions, to get that advantage.

That allows them to provide biased blame and simple solutions to very complicated issues. They seem to feel that process to be a valid approach to deciding on a view and then attempting to rationalize and validate that view to others. I am not one of those people. Nor do I strive to ridicule or demean others and their views.

But it's only your own sense of superiority which causes you to assume others have decided upon good and bad without first considering the information.

Poroshenko is doing what he thinks is right for Ukrainians and remains very popular in the Ukraine.

By trying to protect his country from invasion, you mean?

Putin is doing what he thinks is right for Russians and remains very popular in Russia and parts of East and Southern Ukraine.

By attacking and murdering people in Ukraine, you mean? Let me ask you this then. Genghis Khan was popular with his people as he swept across Asia and the middle east slaughtering hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. Does that mean he was not a bad fellow? Would you suggest he was no more to blame, no more 'bad' for slaughtering entire cities, hacking off the heads of their citizens, and building neat piles of them, than the cities who attempted to resist his invasions?

Also, are you aware that all information within Russia is tightly controlled by Putin? No one there hears anything bad in the media, but only good things.

To vehemently support either one of them without considering the history, political nuances and support of both these leaders by their people is cheerleading.

And again, only your own arrogance assumes that you are the only one who has considered that. In point of fact, you are simply refusing to admit there is any difference between right and wrong. That is not a brave or academic stand at all. It is the opposite.

[Big Guy]

......, you mean?

..., you mean?

And again, only your own arrogance assumes that you are the only one who has considered that. In point of fact, you are simply refusing to admit there is any difference between right and wrong. That is not a brave or academic stand at all. It is the opposite.

I usually take the time before I post on this board to read through my work and post exactly what I mean. Thank you for attempting to clarify and interpret my postings but I require no assistance. I prefer to let my words express my personal views.

Thank you for sharing your unique perception in a prism of light with which you seem very comfortable.

I do understand what you premises are and why you feel the way you do.

I do not think you are a moron. I do believe that you do truly believe what you post, that you believe that you are correct in all your perceptions on which you comment and that most people posting here are not as smart, informed or well researched as you are.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post.

[Topaz]

Asking about the tower and the plane , the following may answer some of the questions. http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-ordered-to-fly-over-the-east-ukraine-warzone/5392540

[Argus]

Asking about the tower and the plane , the following may answer some of the questions. http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-ordered-to-fly-over-the-east-ukraine-warzone/5392540

Nutty conspiracy sites are not adequate cites.

Globalresearch.ca (also under the domain name globalresearch.org) may best be described as the moonbat equivalent to WorldNetDaily. It is the website of the Montreal-based non-profit The Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG) founded by Michel Chossudovsky.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

Edited July 22, 2014 by Argus

[-TSS-]

Does anyone know how much the death-toll in the fighting in Ukraine has been since the downing of the plane?

[Argus]

I usually take the time before I post on this board to read through my work and post exactly what I mean.

Maybe you should spend more time on that, then, especially since you seem to get pretty indignant whenever anyone tries to pin down what you mean.

Thank you for sharing your unique perception in a prism of light with which you seem very comfortable.

I suspect it's your perspective which is pretty unique. Most adults have very little difficulty telling right from wrong.

[ASIP]

Why have we not heard the recordings of the traffic towers that would have handled this plane. Like we saw with MH370? It may not amount to anything, but why has that not been done?

Because the case is treated as a crime and is under investigation. All records in Ukraine are seized by the Ukrainian police. It's a standard practice in the world. Usually, the ATC communication is leaked earlier by a third party.

[ASIP]

Does anyone know how much the death-toll in the fighting in Ukraine has been since the downing of the plane?

Approximately 10 Ukrainian soldiers and 10 civilians. Numbers for separatist militants are not tracked.

[Big Guy]

Maybe you should spend more time on that, then, especially since you seem to get pretty indignant whenever anyone tries to pin down what you mean.

I suspect it's your perspective which is pretty unique. Most adults have very little difficulty telling right from wrong.

Since you continue to emphasise your perception that you are a lot smarter than anyone else on this board then I have to take your suspicions in the courageous context that they deserve.

Thank you for your comment and insight. I find both interesting.

And I will give you the last word - Something like - "Not everyone else".

That would be a nice way of finishing this foolishness and getting back on topic.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Big Guy