Woman arrested for letting kid play in park

[On Guard for Thee]

The same way people become to paranoid about terrorism. Who is making them paranoid?

The 24 7 news cycle perhaps.....

[Big Guy]

You are responsible for the safety of your child. If you allow your child to be playing anywhere outside of your home and that child is not supervised then you are a negligent parent. It could be an abduction by a stranger (very rare) and abduction by someone the child knows (about 150 a year) to being attacked by some animal, domestic or wild to a major injury while playing to getting beaten up by an older child. You being there may not have avoided the problem but with you, the child would be looked after immediately.

I wonder how many people who feel their child needs the freedom and experience would excuse the babysitter who does the same thing with your child. You come home to find the sitter having a soft drink while the sitter tells you that your child is somewhere at the park practicing freedom and experiencing life.

There is a process called "guided discovery" that caring parents use to safely bring up their children in a healthy and safe environment. As a parent, you send your child unsupervised to a park and the child gets mauled by a pit bull or injured in another manner then you should spend a little time in jail and the authorities should investigate your capacity to parent.

[GostHacked]

The 24 7 news cycle perhaps.....

Let's put part of the blame on our government. In terms of trying to keep us safe while telling us we need to be scared of a particular thing when statistically it is not a major concern. Most kids seem to be abducted by family members and not strangers.

Those children that were 'arrested' (not sure what term to use here) may have a different outlook on police after this incident. I would wonder what their questions are about the incident and how it makes them feel. So much concern for the children, but is anyone asking them how they feel about it?

[GostHacked]

You are responsible for the safety of your child. If you allow your child to be playing anywhere outside of your home and that child is not supervised then you are a negligent parent.

I wonder how the hell me and my friends managed to survive through childhood. We were allowed to roam free to a certain extent. Allowed us to explore things on our own. The only thing that has changed is the fear factor put into parents making them over protective to the point of stifling a child's growth/development.

It could be an abduction by a stranger (very rare) and abduction by someone the child knows (about 150 a year) to being attacked by some animal, domestic or wild to a major injury while playing to getting beaten up by an older child. You being there may not have avoided the problem but with you, the child would be looked after immediately.

I wonder how many people who feel their child needs the freedom and experience would excuse the babysitter who does the same thing with your child. You come home to find the sitter having a soft drink while the sitter tells you that your child is somewhere at the park practicing freedom and experiencing life.

There is a process called "guided discovery" that caring parents use to safely bring up their children in a healthy and safe environment. As a parent, you send your child unsupervised to a park and the child gets mauled by a pit bull or injured in another manner then you should spend a little time in jail and the authorities should investigate your capacity to parent.

Your arguments are too easy to pick apart.

If a parent gets a babysitter, usually there are some rules/instruction the parent would give to the babysitter. Kind of a silly argument. Your child also most likely will act different if there is a babysitter compared to the parent.

Parents are responsible to a certain extent. But you would not put blame on the pitbull or it's owner? It's like you want to punish the victim for the incident. Even if the parent was there, how would that change the situation of the pitbull attack? Come on think this through a little more. Or else you are appealing to the scare factor that we collectively seem to buy into more and more these days. Can't people think for themselves anymore?

[On Guard for Thee]

Let's put part of the blame on our government. In terms of trying to keep us safe while telling us we need to be scared of a particular thing when statistically it is not a major concern. Most kids seem to be abducted by family members and not strangers.

Those children that were 'arrested' (not sure what term to use here) may have a different outlook on police after this incident. I would wonder what their questions are about the incident and how it makes them feel. So much concern for the children, but is anyone asking them how they feel about it?

Good points. I certainly do get the impression, especially currently, that the gov. is working at keeping us afraid if we want to buy their talking points even though the stats show we are safer than ever. Especially bizarre to me having grown up on a farm in the country were I was all over the place, the woods, the swimming hole etc., at a very young age, with the most pressing supervision being, be home by 6 for supper.

[GostHacked]

Good points. I certainly do get the impression, especially currently, that the gov. is working at keeping us afraid if we want to buy their talking points even though the stats show we are safer than ever. Especially bizarre to me having grown up on a farm in the country were I was all over the place, the woods, the swimming hole etc., at a very young age, with the most pressing supervision being, be home by 6 for supper.

That is how I remember a lot of my childhood. Be home at X for dinner. And on summer nights, we got to stay out a bit later. There were a couple times me and my sister wandered off when we should not have (one particular time my dad had to drive my mom to work, we were told to stay around the yard as we were leaving in 15 mins, well, we paid for that one)..... but overall my parents let us explore the world with the kids in the area. We all had a great time. And we did not turn into delinquent adults.

Parents are buying into the fear factor. We can look at the amount of crime shows and 'reality' TV shows regarding all these horrible things. It's making us scared of one another. How did we get here? How are we now so afraid and so easily manipulated via media and the government doling out the fear factor?

[Argus]

The same way people become to paranoid about terrorism. Who is making them paranoid?

Nobody was worried about terrorism when I was younger because we had none. While there was some small groups out there in the world they weren't blowing up buildings or trying to get their hands on nukes or biological weapons.

[Argus]

You are responsible for the safety of your child. If you allow your child to be playing anywhere outside of your home and that child is not supervised then you are a negligent parent.

I'm willing to bet you know as little about parenting as you do about everything else you pontificate on here.

By that ignorant statement all of us had negligent parents, since all of us were allowed to play outside without supervision.

There is a process called "guided discovery" that caring parents use to safely bring up their children in a healthy and safe environment.

In the basement, you mean, where they can't discover, explore or learn about risks, realities or themselves. Which produces children in their twenties who still cry whenever they can't get their way and are afraid to cross the street without mom or dad there to watch over them.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

How did we get here? How are we now so afraid and so easily manipulated via media and the government doling out the fear factor?

There was a cite posted fairly early in this topic which would give you the answers to those questions.

For one thing, the government isn't manipulating you. The government is simply responding to the fear of parents who themselves are herded by the media.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Argus

[GostHacked]

Nobody was worried about terrorism when I was younger because we had none. While there was some small groups out there in the world they weren't blowing up buildings or trying to get their hands on nukes or biological weapons.

Bullshit. Terrorism existed then. FLQ ring any bells? No? I wonder why. No such thing as white terrorism, right?

There was a cite posted fairly early in this topic which would give you the answers to those questions.

For one thing, the government isn't manipulating you. The government is simply responding to the fear of parents who themselves are herded by the media.

Really? You are that naive to think the government does not manipulate you? I mean you buy into the Islamic terrorism line hook and sinker. Yet we don't see the level of terrorism that we are told exists. All of the recent foiled plots, they were handled and controlled by the RCMP and other police entities early on. There was no way in which those plots could have actually taken place. But yet we are told that a plot was foiled.

[GostHacked]

Getting off topic but it shows that people are easily scared. Especially when it comes to their children. If you can make a parent scared for their children, then you can easily manipulate them into a certain line of thinking. Several incidents in Ottawa over the last year where schools went into lock down because of some suspicious activity. Betcha that scared some parents. OMG we need more security.

But now we are charging parents with neglect when kids are playing outside? I can see that if the parent was abusing the child, but allowing them to play outside?

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

[On Guard for Thee]

That is how I remember a lot of my childhood. Be home at X for dinner. And on summer nights, we got to stay out a bit later. There were a couple times me and my sister wandered off when we should not have (one particular time my dad had to drive my mom to work, we were told to stay around the yard as we were leaving in 15 mins, well, we paid for that one)..... but overall my parents let us explore the world with the kids in the area. We all had a great time. And we did not turn into delinquent adults.

Parents are buying into the fear factor. We can look at the amount of crime shows and 'reality' TV shows regarding all these horrible things. It's making us scared of one another. How did we get here? How are we now so afraid and so easily manipulated via media and the government doling out the fear factor?

Im a city guy now but I am heartened whenever I walk by the park nearby and see lots of kids, the younger ones with parents standing by, some of the older ones alone, playing on those horribly dangerous devices such as monkey bars, swings, teader todders. You can pretty much feel it in the air how they are learning about risk assessment, getting good exercise, as well as socialising, all the while having a lot of fun. Its how the world was meant to be I reckon.

[Big Guy]

To GostHacked - Thank you for your response. I have read your views and continue to disagree with you. I believe that when you have been entrusted with a young human life then you do not take chances. When a pit bull mauls an unsupervised child or a drunk assaults an unsupervised child I suggest that the owner of the pit bull or the identity of the drunk is not an issue for that child. The child has been harmed and if proper supervision had been provided then that harm would not have taken place.

When dealing with children the major priority and focus is to prevent any damage to them rather than be concerned about the cause.

You use yourself as an example to validate your argument. The problem with that kind of anecdotal evidence that it can only be provided by those who survived - the others did not make it and cannot comment.

Of course free play and guided discovery are important tools for teaching children self confidence and practicing societal skills. Not providing adequate supervision is a cop-out of the responsibility of parenting. Some pay for it through the court system by child protection agencies while others pay for it with a lifetime of guilt when their child is badly hurt or killed because of a parenting mistake.

Allowing a young child to play "outside" out of sight and supervision of a parent is neglectful parenting - period.

Most parents get away with it every once in a while. Others make it a common parenting technique.

So be it.

I have been around this planet long enough to have developed that view, based on many years of experience. If/when you have the responsibility of a naïve and trusting child then you will do what you will do.

I hope that you are correct for you and that there will be no problems - because if there are, I can guarantee that you will regret it for the rest of your life.

I am not here to convince anybody of anything, just sharing an experienced opinion.

[GostHacked]

What is the difference between a pitbull mauling a supervised or unsupervised kid?

Come on Big Guy you can do it. Think.

[Argus]

Bullshit. Terrorism existed then. FLQ ring any bells? No? I wonder why. No such thing as white terrorism, right?

They pre-dated me. In any event, even the terrorism which existed back then was generally targeted at government figures. Even the IRA, when they decided to plant a bomb, called ahead to warn people to leave. The general targeting of anyone in a population wasn't something terrorists did, well, except for Muslims, and even they focused on Jews. Now anyone and everyone is their target.

Really? You are that naive to think the government does not manipulate you?

Do I think the "government" deliberately tries to scare people about threats to children or terrorism? No, I don't. That doesn't mean the political parties, chiefly the Tories, might not swagger and play the part of the societal protector from time to time. The introduction of ever stricter laws against child pornography, for example, was and is strictly for political reasons.

I mean you buy into the Islamic terrorism line hook and sinker. Yet we don't see the level of terrorism that we are told exists. All of the

recent foiled plots, they were handled and controlled by the RCMP and other police entities early on. There was no way in which those plots could have

actually taken place. But yet we are told that a plot was foiled.

Plots clearly are being foiled. The Toronto 19 being one ferinstance. The idiot Frenchman who shot himself the other day being another. There are crazy Muslims who clearly want to make a name for themselves with Allah to kill people, either here or overseas. That's not an exaggeration. Do you object to police infiltrating/befriending groups and individuals who express a desire to commit acts of terrorism

and pretending to be terrorists?

[Big Guy]

Well GostHacked - I suggest that there is a big difference to the amount of damage that could be prevented when an adult is at the site of a pit bull attack on a child than hearing about it at a later time.

But - It appears you not only disagree but are prepared to be rude - "Come on Big Guy you can do it. Think." I had spent time on this issue because I felt that you might be taking it seriously and did want an explanation of a dissenting opinion. It also appears that you are comfortable with the predominant tone exhibited in this forum by some of the more prolific but less informed posters. So be it.

You are convinced that your approach to parenting is superior to mine and there is nothing I can add. I wish you well and hope that for your children and your peace of mind that you are correct.

[GostHacked]

Well GostHacked - I suggest that there is a big difference to the amount of damage that could be prevented when an adult is at the site of a pit bull attack on a child than hearing about it at a later time.

But - It appears you not only disagree but are prepared to be rude - "Come on Big Guy you can do it. Think." I had spent time on this issue because I felt that you might be taking it seriously and did want an explanation of a dissenting opinion. It also appears that you are comfortable with the predominant tone exhibited in this forum by some of the more prolific but less informed posters. So be it.

You are convinced that your approach to parenting is superior to mine and there is nothing I can add. I wish you well and hope that for your children and your peace of mind that you are correct.

Supervision is great, but at what point do you decide to step out of the picture and let the child explore things on their own? A dog that is going to attack is going to cause damage no matter what. Even if the parent was sitting on the bench while the child is being mauled on the other side of the play structure?

Charging parents for letting their kids play unsupervised is sending the wrong message to the parents and the kids. I mean how often did you play outside without supervision from parents? What is so different now compared to then?

[Big Guy]

About 70 years and dealing with children in Sick Kids Hospital.

[GostHacked]

About 70 years and dealing with children in Sick Kids Hospital.

Care to elaborate?

[Big Guy]

If there was a chance that you would change your mind then I would elaborate. I sense by your comments and their tone that you have little credibility in my opinion. I have stated my point of view. Any Internet search would reveal statistics on child abductions, injuries and deaths. My opinion is that these statistics consolidate my point. You obviously disagree and accept the statistical average of what can happen to children who are unsupervised - and view that as an acceptable statistical improbability for your approach to parenting.

I have no problem with the standard you set - it is probably more common than is mine.

I am not criticizing you for your views. You are certainly entitled to them and I hope you are proven to be correct.

[ReeferMadness]

Really how the hell did most of us survive? Me and my friends when I was that age would spend hours in the forest in behind our homes. No parents around.

yeah, I spent my time unsupervised too. But that was a loonnnnggg time ago. Times have changes.

[eyeball]

I just wonder how the heck the pendulum will ever swing back from the never-ending course towards total supervision that society is on. Will we finally reach a point where virtually nobody can move for fear of being hurt in any way shape or form? What then, live in enclosed pods tended to by robot nannies?

[Michael Hardner]

What then, live in enclosed pods tended to by robot nannies?

I'm sorry but the picture you paint has frightened me to the point where my robot nanny just informed me that I'm not allowed to play with you any more.

[Argus]

yeah, I spent my time unsupervised too. But that was a loonnnnggg time ago. Times have changes.

How have times changed? More crime? Is being alone more dangerous for children?

[Big Guy]

To Michael Hardner - Those disagreeing on the substance of this issue tend to use extreme examples in an attempt to support their point.

I have found it interesting how views of child safety and control change with people who have children for the first time.

I believe that common sense and "guided discovery" are the default standards set by most parents. Many first time parents do tend to "overly" protect their children as do parents of sickly children.

Personally, I would prefer those parents who err on the side of protection than those who err on supervision. If you ever spend any time in childrens wards or Sick Kids Hospital in Toronto you might see the heartbreak in those parents who erred in supervision. But that is just my opinion.

I do tend to take advice from professionals in the field. I would suggest that those who believe in unlimited freedom for the child as a learning tool about life talk to a pediatrician or emergency room personnel. The limits of what "freedom to learn about life" is a very large area. It may vary from a first unsupervised walk to school to sharing a joint.

I do have a hypothetical question;

You are walking past a playground. A child is standing there unattended. What would you do if that child was 4 years old? 7 years old? 10 years old? 12 years old?