Argus Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 Who cares? Whose business is it what someone's religious beliefs are? That's the point of freedom of religion. . If his religious beliefs include the need to murder anyone who doesn't agree with his religious beliefs then it's definitely everyone's business - other than those who share his religious beliefs, I suppose. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 If they commited offenses as juveniles, they wouldn't be in adult prisons. You're not getting it. If you examine the men in prison for violent offenses in Canada you will rarely find people who came from happy, adjusted middle class families. You'll find men who were, as boys, beaten, abused, raped, neglected, and introduced early on to drugs, alcohol and violence, either at home or on the street. We can be sorry about that, but that doesn't mean we excuse their violence and criminality, especially when, because of their past, that violence and criminality is ongoing and unrepentant. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 You're not getting it. If you examine the men in prison for violent offenses in Canada you will rarely find people who came from happy, adjusted middle class families. You'll find men who were, as boys, beaten, abused, raped, neglected, and introduced early on to drugs, alcohol and violence, either at home or on the street. We can be sorry about that, but that doesn't mean we excuse their violence and criminality, especially when, because of their past, that violence and criminality is ongoing and unrepentant. It may not mean we excuse it per se but it does mean we treat these poor tortured souls with humanity. You're the one who's not getting it. Go talk to Jesus or something. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
jacee Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 If his religious beliefs include the need to murder anyone who doesn't agree with his religious beliefs then it's definitely everyone's business - other than those who share his religious beliefs, I suppose. Your bigoted stereotyping of all Muslims as violent is noted. . Quote
Argus Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) It may not mean we excuse it per se but it does mean we treat these poor tortured souls with humanity. You're the one who's not getting it. Go talk to Jesus or something. These tortured souls tortured people, raped children, murdered people. That's who they are now. It doesn't matter what made them that way. Edited July 15, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) Your bigoted stereotyping of all Muslims as violent is noted. . Your ignorance and inability to read or understand basic English is noted... yet again. Edited July 15, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Big Guy Posted July 16, 2014 Author Report Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Your bigoted stereotyping of all Muslims as violent is noted. . No one or nothing is going to change his mind. Edited July 16, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
On Guard for Thee Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 These tortured souls tortured people, raped children, murdered people. That's who they are now. It doesn't matter what made them that way. Khadr threw a hand grenade (maybe) at an invading force in a declared war zone. He didn't rape anyone, he didn't torture anyone. Stop guilding the lily and stick to the facts. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Khadr threw a hand grenade (maybe) at an invading force in a declared war zone. He didn't rape anyone, he didn't torture anyone. Stop guilding the lily and stick to the facts. I'd rather be raped and tortured than be killed by a grenade. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 I'd rather be raped and tortured than be killed by a grenade. Is there a point to this comment? Quote
dre Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 These tortured souls tortured people, raped children, murdered people. That's who they are now. It doesn't matter what they were. Not in this case. In this case the person MIGHT have thrown a grenade at members of a hostile foreign invasion force that was going door to door in someone elses country shaking people down at gunpoint. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
eyeball Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 These tortured souls tortured people, raped children, murdered people. That's who they are now. It doesn't matter what made them that way. Sometimes it does, take victims of fetal alcohol poisoning for example. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
jbg Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Sometimes it does, take victims of fetal alcohol poisoning for example. I highly doubt Khadr, the son of a devout Muslim, had fetal alcohol poisoning. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
eyeball Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 I'm not suggesting Khadr's ability to think clearly was damaged by alcohol, I'm saying the disability caused by religiously based indoctrination is comparable. It was no more Omar Khadr's fault that he ended up in the circumstances he did than a victim of FAS is responsible. The pursuit and maintenance of officially sanctioned animosity and vindictiveness towards either is just plain evil. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
guyser Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Is there a point to this comment?Announcing a predilection for S&M? Quote
jbg Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 I'm not suggesting Khadr's ability to think clearly was damaged by alcohol, I'm saying the disability caused by religiously based indoctrination is comparable. It was no more Omar Khadr's fault that he ended up in the circumstances he did than a victim of FAS is responsible. The pursuit and maintenance of officially sanctioned animosity and vindictiveness towards either is just plain evil. Assuming you're right, do we in either of our country need a population of deranged people whose "disabilit(ies are) caused by religiously based indoctrination." Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
guyser Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Assuming you're right, do we in either of our country need a population of deranged people whose "disabilit(ies are) caused by religiously based indoctrination."Probably not. But what to do about Hasidic Gangs in New York? Do tell us what you would like to see happen there. Quote
jacee Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 I'm not suggesting Khadr's ability to think clearly was damaged by alcohol, I'm saying the disability caused by religiously based indoctrination is comparable. It was no more Omar Khadr's fault that he ended up in the circumstances he did than a victim of FAS is responsible. The pursuit and maintenance of officially sanctioned animosity and vindictiveness towards either is just plain evil. I agree that Omar Khadr was indoctrinated into hatred and violence by his parents in childhood, and that should have been considered in his trial and sentencing. It should also be considered in his assessment and rehabilitation plan ... because he was indoctrinated and needs treatment for that to reduce risk to society. It remains to be seen whether Guantanamo has made him better or worse. I think the Canadian court got it right sending him to provincial detention for planned, gradual and supported release. . Quote
jbg Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Probably not. But what to do about Hasidic Gangs in New York? Do tell us what you would like to see happen there. I have posted on this issue and we totally agree. There was a disgusting attempt to burn someone alive recently for worshiping in the "wrong" Chasidic facility. See here and here and here where I have compared Chasids to "rats on two legs. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
gman29 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Canada shouldn't be holding political prisoners anyway. The us had to make a new court invent new law and torture to "convict" him. Canafa shouldn't recognize those processes nor legitimize what occured to that Canadian. Should there have been enough evidence of him engaging in war against Canada he should have been tried in canada as a young offender. Not in Cuba by a mock us court as an adult under made up laws in a whole de facto process. His actions weren't criminal they were self defence us law did not extend to a canadian in central asia Quote
jacee Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Canada shouldn't be holding political prisoners anyway. The us had to make a new court invent new law and torture to "convict" him.No kidding.His actions weren't criminal they were self defence us law did not extend to a canadian in central asiaNot only that ... I''m convinced Khadr didn't throw the grenade at all. At his first pretrial, a US soldier said Khadr was already injured and under a pile of debris before it was thrown, and there was another man still alive.That man was executed after the firefight was over. Once discovered, badly injured Omar was also shot twice in the back and would have been executed too ... but he managed to say "I'm Canadian!" and an officer called a halt to his execution. The US covered up some criminal behaviour by its soldiers by villainizing Omar ... but one of them had the decency to tell the truth. It was never heard again though since he plead guilty on a promise of return to Canada. . Edited July 16, 2014 by jacee Quote
gman29 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) No kidding. Not only that ... I''m convinced Khadr didn't throw the grenade at all. At his first pretrial, a US soldier said Khadr was already injured and under a pile of debris before it was thrown, and there was another man still alive. That man was executed after the firefight was over. Once discovered, badly injured Omar was also shot twice in the back and would have been executed too ... but he managed to say "I'm Canadian!" and an officer called a halt to his execution. The US covered up some criminal behaviour by its soldiers by villainizing Omar ... but one of them had the decency to tell the truth. It was never heard again though since he plead guilty on a promise of return to Canada. . well if you do you walkt around making ieds in a cell maybe it wasn't a grenade.. maybe 1 of the Dead people laying on the floor next to him actually is the one killed speers cause omar was making ieds for use against canadians maybe one of the dead smucks planted a booby trap at the door...but I don't know that I do know that if I was in a building where in assault was being launched against me to be trapping the buildings entry point I would have been something to do. the real problem is when will you start trying to say what happens rather than see what is happening and to prevent injustice from happening now in the future fixation on the past with no clear idea ability is completely senseless and not beyond reasonable doubt as a Canadian I would be more concerned about what he will do in Canada than what he did in Afghanistan Edited July 16, 2014 by gman29 Quote
Argus Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 Not in this case. In this case the person MIGHT have thrown a grenade at members of a hostile foreign invasion force that was going door to door in someone elses country shaking people down at gunpoint. I'm less interested in the legality of what he did as I am in his upbringing of hatred, violence, war and Islamist fanaticism, and what danger he might now be to the public in Canada. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 Assuming you're right, do we in either of our country need a population of deranged people whose "disabilit(ies are) caused by religiously based indoctrination." Obviously not, but can you imagine how even worse religion would make things if we tried to make the world a more rational place with the same vindictiveness people bring towards the youngest most vulnerable and least responsible victims of deliberately infused delusions? In the meantime we throw mother's in jail for leaving 9 year old's on their own but we also give mother's a free pass for turning their kids into terrorists. Well, by we I mean right-wingers because it's clearly from that direction in our society that such disparate and dissonant approaches to our society's approach to criminally irresponsible parenting come from. Like religion, conservatism makes everything worse too. Personally I'm convinced that Omar Khadr's treatment is a calculated strategy by both our countries governments and predominant political ideologies. The hands off approach to his mother is necessary to maintain much of the fiction surrounding the west's response to 9/11 and how it's been conducted. God forbid that Omar Khadr really was the victim because if he is every thing changes. And 'we' all know how fearful change can be don't we? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 No kidding. Not only that ... I''m convinced Khadr didn't throw the grenade at all. At his first pretrial, a US soldier said Khadr was already injured and under a pile of debris before it was thrown, and there was another man still alive. That man was executed after the firefight was over. Once discovered, badly injured Omar was also shot twice in the back and would have been executed too ... but he managed to say "I'm Canadian!" and an officer called a halt to his execution. The US covered up some criminal behaviour by its soldiers by villainizing Omar ... but one of them had the decency to tell the truth. It was never heard again though since he plead guilty on a promise of return to Canada. . Perhaps you can provide a source for your so called facts....I'm sure that is not what happened. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
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