All They Need is a Handgun.

[jbg]

One key difference is no other country has a large, well-funded lobby working to oppose any measures to make cars safer or reduce incidences of disease.

You mean Canada doesn't have lobbies? If not, can you explain why?

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.

Lisa: Thats specious reasoning, Dad.

Homer: Thank you, dear.

Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.

Homer: Oh, how does it work?

Lisa: It doesnt work.

Homer: Uh-huh.

Lisa: Its just a stupid rock.

Homer: Uh-huh.

Lisa: But I dont see any tigers around, do you?

Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

You are dealing there with a list of non-sequiturs. A better example would be to ask how many bullies attack a 190 cm. boxer. The point is that if the bodega operator is highly likely to be armed some people won't undertake the trouble. Another example is that if you have a dog barking fiercely in your house a burglar would be less likely to try that house even if the dog's behavior, upon entry, would be to roll over and ask for a belly-rub.

[Black Dog]

You mean Canada doesn't have lobbies? If not, can you explain why?

Obviously not what I meant. Do I really need to explain this?

You are dealing there with a list of non-sequiturs. A better example would be to ask how many bullies attack a 190 cm. boxer. The point is that if the bodega operator is highly likely to be armed some people won't undertake the trouble. Another example is that if you have a dog barking fiercely in your house a burglar would be less likely to try that house even if the dog's behavior, upon entry, would be to roll over and ask for a belly-rub.

You can't count things that don't happen because you can't prove they didn't happen for the reason you say they didn't happen.

But lets say that happens from time to time: how does the prospect of guns preventing crime measure against the reality that simply having a gun around increases the likelihood of being involved in gun violence by murder or mishap?

[bush_cheney2004]

You mean Canada doesn't have lobbies? If not, can you explain why?

Good point....I think I wanna buy some asbestos for my guns.

[cybercoma]

Actually we have no way of knowing how many crimes are deterred because they never happen.

This argument actually means the violence could potentially be even higher than the already disproportionately high level that it's at now.

[Black Dog]

This argument actually means the violence could potentially be even higher than the already disproportionately high level that it's at now.

It's also based on the assumption that controlling access to guns will only impact "law abiding" citizens, even as gun fetishists invariably and gleefully point out incidents where a murderer has acquired a gun through legal means.

[cybercoma]

Arthur Chu writes an excellent piece about culture, certain tropes, and the killings in California. Everyone should take the time to read it, despite its length. He sums up the massacre as, "The fruits of our culture’s ingrained misogyny laid bare for all to see." Yet, he doesn't do so off the cuff. He supports his argument from start to finish by exampling the messages that appear again and again in a variety of media. People should take the time to read this because the issue is far beyond this one incident and issues of gun control. It's about a culture that's perpetuated in the media, "a culture where instead of seeing women as, you know, people, protagonists of their own stories just like we are of ours, men are taught that women are things to “earn,” to “win.”" The issue goes well beyond gun violence and is about the dangers that women face from men who are taught that they are entitled to women's bodies as a reward. It's about the fear women face of guys who stalk and harass them. Guys who won't take no for an answer. Guys who go so far as to beat, rape, and murder them. No, not all men, as someone no doubt will say, ignoring the whole point. But it's enough men that one in 17 Canadian women raped in their lifetime and roughly half of all women will experience some form of physical or sexual violence (source: StatsCan VAWS). People should take the time to read what Chu writes here. It's an important message that just skims the depth of the problem.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html

Edited May 29, 2014 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Oh and before bush_cheney2004 reminds us that California is not Canada, no it's not. But Montreal is and this is the exact same crap that happened almost 25 years ago at École Polytechnique. We still haven't learned that our culture is violent and oppressive.

[guyser]

Good point....I think I wanna buy some asbestos for my guns.

Ok

Its used and available in the USA. Whats your point?

[cybercoma]

Ok

Its used and available in the USA. Whats your point?

From the EPA's website:

Examples of asbestos-containing products not banned

The manufacture, importation, processing and distribution in commerce of these products, as well as some others not listed, are not banned.

Cement corrugated sheet

Cement flat sheet

Clothing

Pipeline wrap

Roofing felt

Vinyl floor tile

Cement shingle

Millboard

Cement pipe

Automatic transmission components

Clutch facings

Friction materials

Disk brake pads

Drum brake linings

Brake blocks

Gaskets

Non-roofing coatings

Roof coatings

[Moonlight Graham]

The point is that if the bodega operator is highly likely to be armed some people won't undertake the trouble. Another example is that if you have a dog barking fiercely in your house a burglar would be less likely to try that house even if the dog's behavior, upon entry, would be to roll over and ask for a belly-rub.

Here's the other side of your take: If most convenience store owners have no gun under the counter, the robber may come in with a knife or a baseball bat or a finger in his jacket to rob the place because that's all that would be needed. If most convenience store owners are known to have guns under the counter then the robber will need to step his game up and come in with a gun himself.

Robberies with knives and bats will result in less death & injury than if both parties are armed with guns.

[bush_cheney2004]

Arthur Chu writes an excellent piece about culture, certain tropes, and the killings in California. ...

Sure...we will get right on that. Let us know when Chu writes a nice piece about gang banging, gun homicide rate for black males, and Chicago's body count.

[Black Dog]

Here's the other side of your take: If most convenience store owners have no gun under the counter, the robber may come in with a knife or a baseball bat or a finger in his jacket to rob the place because that's all that would be needed. If most convenience store owners are known to have guns under the counter then the robber will need to step his game up and come in with a gun himself.

Robberies with knives and bats will result in less death & injury than if both parties are armed with guns.

I also want to know how a criminal is supposed to know which store owner has a gun.

[cybercoma]

Sure...we will get right on that. Let us know when Chu writes a nice piece about gang banging, gun homicide rate for black males, and Chicago's body count.

You couldn't have missed the point any further if you tried.

[Shady]

The issue really seems to be mental health. 3 people died from a knife. 3 people died from a gun. For some reason, the gun issue is the only issue some people decide to focus on.

[bush_cheney2004]

Armed store owners or clerks vary by region and neighbourhood. Insurance companies and corporate owners generally do not want clerks going Rambo on robbery suspects. But if two inch thick armoured glass won't work, some people want the option to protect themselves with a firearm, not the store. Gun shoppes owners and clerks are nearly always armed for obvious reasons, as are many pawn shop owners.

[bush_cheney2004]

The issue really seems to be mental health. 3 people died from a knife. 3 people died from a gun. For some reason, the gun issue is the only issue some people decide to focus on.

Yep....the usual suspects jump up and down over the firearm. The mental health aspects of this have come to the fore, but it's business as usual for the gun grabbers.

[bush_cheney2004]

You couldn't have missed the point any further if you tried.

You should have quit while ahead....California is not Canada or Montreal.

[Black Dog]

The issue really seems to be mental health. 3 people died from a knife. 3 people died from a gun. For some reason, the gun issue is the only issue some people decide to focus on.

The fact that hardly a day goes by without someone using a gun to kill a bunch of people at once down there might have something to do with it.

But yeah, I'm interested in hearing all about the mental health particulars in this case from the mental health pros on this board.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Black Dog

[On Guard for Thee]

Yep....the usual suspects jump up and down over the firearm. The mental health aspects of this have come to the fore, but it's business as usual for the gun grabbers.

Allowing known mental health patients to own and carry guns seems in and of itself a bit of a mental health problem.

[jbg]

Here's the other side of your take: If most convenience store owners have no gun under the counter, the robber may come in with a knife or a baseball bat or a finger in his jacket to rob the place because that's all that would be needed. If most convenience store owners are known to have guns under the counter then the robber will need to step his game up and come in with a gun himself.

Robberies with knives and bats will result in less death & injury than if both parties are armed with guns.

I find it hard to imagine an aggressive robber in a store having a baseball bat fight with a cashier would end well. At least that post made me laugh on a rough day. Edited May 29, 2014 by jbg

[Black Dog]

Allowing known mental health patients to own and carry guns seems in and of itself a bit of a mental health problem.

Of course, the vast majority of people with mental health issues are unlikely to ever commit an act of violence. But the faux concern for the mentally ill by gun fetishists is always amusing, as when the NRA president said in the wake of Sandy Hook:

We have no national database of these lunatics. We have a completely cracked mentally ill system that’s got these monsters walking the streets."

FEEL THE CONCERN.

I find it hard to imagine an aggressive robber in a store having a baseball bat fight with a cashier would end well. At least that post made me laugh on a rough day.

If you thought that was funny, imagine now an armed robber and an armed clerk having a firefight in the bodega you're shopping in. Hilarious!

[cybercoma]

You should have quit while ahead....California is not Canada or Montreal.

And the article was written by an American about America and American media.

No attempt to understand the discussion or the points of debate. Just posts things to be instigate posters. HOOK.

Edited May 29, 2014 by cybercoma

[bush_cheney2004]

And the article was written by an American about America and American media.

No attempt to understand the discussion or the points of debate. Just posts things to be instigate posters. HOOK.

None whatsoever....I can cherry pick NRA media content as well, and you will make no attempt to understand the discussion or points of debate.

[bush_cheney2004]

How many times must it be stated.....a majority of Americans are not going to give up their constitutional right to own and bear arms because of accident statistics or homicides from criminals and/or the mentally ill. It is a political non-starter. The backlash would be far worse than the current gun homicide trend (which is way down from 1993). Gun rights actually enjoy broader support in the wake of such high profile shootings.

....Kenneth Rapoza writing for Forbes Magazine last month analyzed gun control efforts since 1993 and concluded they are cyclical and increase only temporarily in response to high-profile shootings. There is no overall trend toward stricter gun control. When Bill Clinton became president in 1993, 57% favored stricter gun control. Support rose to 66% by the time he left office. However, it decreased down to a low of 39% under Obama. The current spike in support can be expected to decrease back down a relatively low 39%.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/22/gun-control-is-wrong-move-for-colorado-united-states

Americans who want stricter gun control can move to Canada.....or Japan, where gun homicide rates are much, much lower than Canada's relatively higher rate.

Edited May 29, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Black Dog]

And the article was written by an American about America and American media.

No attempt to understand the discussion or the points of debate. Just posts things to be instigate posters. HOOK.

Stop engaging the troll.