This week in Islam

[Goddess]

6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

What would you think if, every time a rape was reported on the news, certain women reliably reported it on a thread here, and made sweeping generalizations about men's backward and misogynistic beliefs, how barbaric men are, how non-raping men needed to stand up and apologize for the rapists/pedophiles in their midst.  What if these women talked about limiting men's ability to move freely within Canada or around the world, raising the alarm if men showed any interest in politics, school administration and limiting their access to public sector jobs based on how they styled their hair, or if they wore black jeans.  These same women would ignore, dismiss and downplay the same crimes committed by women, insist that women were, as a group, more civilized and trustworthy than men and that is why men needed to be watched and controlled.

Not like Islam, at all.

 

Do you take precautions to prevent being raped or assaulted by a man?

Remember - not all men rape.  

So why do you do that?

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

Yes, I've noticed you do this a lot.  When misogyny in Islam is being discussed, you want to discuss misogyny in Christianity.  Anything happening in Islam, you want to quickly change the subject.  I'm glad you have also noticed that you do not wish to address the  problems in Islam and get quite angry when others do.

You don't want to discuss misogyny unless its Islam/Muslims.  Why is that?  If immigrant populations suffer higher rates of domestic and sexual violence then third+ generation Canadians (which I believe to be true, based on research I've done), why do you keep insisting that Islam is the problem?  Why don't you want to address the issue of misogyny wherever it occurs, instead of just Muslim misogyny?  Could it be because putting Muslims in context with similar, but non-Muslim groups, makes it harder to demonize Muslims?

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

You don't want to discuss misogyny unless its Islam/Muslims.  Why is that?  If immigrant populations suffer higher rates of domestic and sexual violence then third+ generation Canadians (which I believe to be true, based on research I've done), why do you keep insisting that Islam is the problem?  Why don't you want to address the issue of misogyny wherever it occurs, instead of just Muslim misogyny?  Could it be because putting Muslims in context with similar, but non-Muslim groups, makes it harder to demonize Muslims?

Why?  Because I agree with sapper.  Islam is the worst of the worst.

Misogyny in general has been and continues to be dealt with in our society.  Daily, I read about efforts to root it out.  Yes, we have more improvements to make, but we at least are trying.

Islam in general - not trying to root it out.   And why should they?  They have people like you on their side to defend it and make sure no one talks about it.

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Do you take precautions to prevent being raped or assaulted by a man?

Remember - not all men rape.  

So why do you do that?

Irrelevant, and you know it.

What I don't do is focus on every single rape news story, every single child porn story, every single pedophile story to beat a "men are evil" drum, like you do with Muslims.  I don't demand that all the men who don't rape must prove to me that they condemn men who do rape, like you do with Muslims.  I don't insist that my personal experience of pedophilia and rape is indicative of the behavior of men in general, like you do with Muslims.

[DogOnPorch]

56 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yes, you've made your feelings clear.  You are forced to ignore every Koranic scripture that allows a different belief system, and every Muslim who doesn't engage in murder or any barbaric practices to maintain that worldview, but that's how bigotry works.

Christianity has its share of poor behavior throughout its six thousand year history, and has really only reformed in the last few centuries and in some regions of the world, is still far behind our Westernized Christianity.  Islam, created in Christianity's image, is still well behind Westernized Christianity, but I expect its reform will occur much sooner in its history than did Christianity's reform.  I think it'll happen over the next two or three generations.  

Of course, I could be wrong.  Humans tend to become more conservative and religious when they feel threatened.  Global climate change may see a resurgence of fundamentalist Christianity around the world and slowing of Islam's reform.

 

I did not write the Quran nor did I invent Islam. All the bigotry and racism resides within your preferred religion.

[Goddess]

7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Irrelevant, and you know it.

Not irrelevant, and you know it.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

Not irrelevant, and you know it.

 

Dialamah would like us to judge the Nazis according to the actions of Oskar Schindler...eh?

[dialamah]

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Islam in general - not trying to root it out.   And why should they?  They have people like you on their side to defend it and make sure no one talks about it.

Another of your generalizations.  There are activists in Muslim-majority countries who are trying to "root it out".  There are governments of Muslim majority governments who implement legislation designed to give women more rights and more protection.  Yes, the governments and authorities could be doing much more, but they are trying.

But you want to ignore that, and make sure no one talks about it.

Sapper is too lazy to even read links posted on this forum, as he's asserted many times.  His view of Islam is formed by sensational news stories, not any real knowledge, or desire to learn about different cultures or parts of the world.  You, on the other hand, only want to pay attention to information that supports your "Muslims are evil because they follow Islam" decision.

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There are activists in Muslim-majority countries who are trying to "root it out". 

Yes, that's why I said "Islam in general".

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

But you want to ignore that, and make sure no one talks about it.

I dont' ignore it.  Nor do I prevent you or anyone else from talking about it.  No one has prevented you from talking about Islam. 

While it's wonderful that some groups are trying to address misogyny in Islam, the fact is that in all Muslim-majority countries women are treated poorly, killed, beaten and abused.  To the extent the law allows in Western countries, Islamic abuse of women continues in Western countries, as well.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Goddess

[DogOnPorch]

6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Another of your generalizations.  There are activists in Muslim-majority countries who are trying to "root it out".  There are governments of Muslim majority governments who implement legislation designed to give women more rights and more protection.  Yes, the governments and authorities could be doing much more, but they are trying.

But you want to ignore that, and make sure no one talks about it.

Sapper is too lazy to even read links posted on this forum, as he's asserted many times.  His view of Islam is formed by sensational news stories, not any real knowledge, or desire to learn about different cultures or parts of the world.  You, on the other hand, only want to pay attention to information that supports your "Muslims are evil because they follow Islam" decision.

 

Nazism can be reformed into something beautiful!

[Argus]

10 hours ago, Right To Left said:

"Legal"/"Illegal" immigrants is just a canard...a  bunch of arbitrary excuses created to regulate entry into a country.

So you're one of those open borders types, are you?

10 hours ago, Right To Left said:

And when we're talking Europe, most of them came from the colonies...

Not the Muslims.

10 hours ago, Right To Left said:

The rest of your diatribe doesn't acknowledge the fact that most of Europe has birth rates below replacement level, and aging populations. They need immigrants from somewhere to try to fix bad demographics.

That's a brainless response given numerous studies in multiple countries have shown that immigration cannot do much of anything to address a low birth rate.

10 hours ago, Right To Left said:

So, why isn't that happening over here? My town has a lot of first and second generation immigrants. Why aren't they all living in their own self-contained clusters like they do in England, France or Sweden?

I don't know what your town is. They certainly do elsewhere. I lived in an area which was flooded with Somalis (and shortly afterward crime). And of course, we know about places like Toronto https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/09/30/toronto-is-segregated-by-race-and-income-and-the-numbers-are-ugly.html and of course we all know of the areas in BC like Richmond which are mostly Chinese.

10 hours ago, Right To Left said:

My father's ancestry is mostly Scotch/Irish, but the last thing I want to force onto others is the old British Canada cultural values!

You'd prefer the social values of countries like Egypt, Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, China? Ours would seem, in almost every way, superior, more enlightened and more tolerant.

10 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Well, since Hamilton is less than an hour's drive from Toronto (discounting traffic congestion), we seem to have a substantial number of Muslims among our large and growing immigrant population. No sign of sharia law being imposed on us yet!

Hamilton's Muslim population sits at about 4%. Much lower than in countries where there is religious strife.

10 hours ago, Right To Left said:

My own experience tells me that those who fear Muslims and non-white immigrants in general the most,  live in white suburbs or rural areas of the Country, where they never see, let alone talk to anyone who comes from these places.

Your experience, does it? And my experience, given I've never lived in a 'white suburb' or rural area says differently.

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Nazism can be reformed into something beautiful!

Yes, the desperate re-branding.  Thus Islam becomes magically "the religion of peace" and hijabs and burkas are now "symbols of women's empowerment".

[dialamah]

6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Not irrelevant, and you know it.

You had, as I recall, two bad experiences with Muslim men.  Now you regularly post, on this forum, about the evils of Islam.

I have been sexually victimized by a pedophile when I was 12, my best friends father when I was sixteen, and two men as an adult.  All white, two of them self-described "Christian" men.  My sister was raped at knifepoint by a white guy.  My daughter and niece were victimized by a "friend of the family" babysitter.  You don't see me on here preaching the evils of men and our Canadian misogynistic culture where these things still flourish, despite changing cultural modes and legislation designed to prevent and punish.

There's a big difference between acknowledging a problem, addressing it, and demonizing an entire group because some of them are assholes.

 

[Argus]

9 hours ago, Right To Left said:

I mentioned in another post that most of the people who view Muslim immigrants as a particular threat are not living in areas where they are going to live or work with any Muslims. It's a fear of the unknown..

This is simply bullshit. The dislike of Islam is derived in part from a constant barrage (no pun intended) of Islamic violence throughout the world which has persisted for decades, Islamic terrorist attacks here, and what is known of Islamic doctrine with regards to their attitudes towards women, gays, Jews, and non-Muslims. Not simply what is known of the 'doctrine' but that this doctrine is mainstream in most of the Muslim world. In addition, of course, your belief that to know Muslims it to love them is nonsense. Many who have had experience with Muslims have not come away very impressed, including myself. I have met few, including my next door neighbour, who have much interest in integrating with Canada's culture. Their culture, their values, are derived from Islam, and they feel a sense of brotherhood with other Muslims more than with infidel Canadians.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

Yes, the desperate re-branding.  Thus Islam becomes magically "the religion of peace" and hijabs and burkas are now "symbols of women's empowerment".

So ultimately the difference is as follows:

I feel Islam is at its core "evil" with some scattering of "good" at the edges from 'reformers' while dialamah believes Islam is a force for "good" with a tiny scattering of "evil" at the fringes. I wonder who is correct??

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 You don't see me on here preaching the evils of men

Actually, you have done this quite often.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Goddess said:

Actually, you have done this quite often.

 

Evil "white men" in particular.

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

I feel Islam is at its core "evil" with some scattering of "good" at the edges from 'reformers' while dialamah believes Islam is a force for "good" with a tiny scattering of "evil" at the fringes.

Bingo. 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

Bingo. 

 

As I wrote...I wonder who is correct?

I suppose we can ask ourselves that question after Canada has its first public stoning of an adulteress or for somebody making light of the Quran.

[Argus]

 

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Some basic facts about Islam are that there aren't many of them, they're not projected to be a huge number, they don't vote as a bloc

In 1971, the first year Muslims appeared on the national census, there were 33,000 of them. Their numbers have doubled every 7-10 years since then, and sat at just over one million at the time of the 2011 census (virtually all immigrants). If the progression has continued it will be 2 million when the 2021 census is taken. It is the fastest growing religion in Canada. If it continues to grow at the same pace the number of Muslims will overtake the number of natives before the following census in 2031.

As to them not voting as a bloc - they do. The CBC  reported during the 2015 election that 'the vast majority of Muslims' voted Liberal. We don't yet know the numbers in the last election but their priorities were listed as Foreign Affairs, Immigration, and then health care. And given the efforts of the Liberal party it is unlikely the number of Muslims voting Liberal will have fallen. Especially given Andrew Scheer's promise to move our embassy to Jerusalem.

 

[Argus]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

And Islamophobes only keep track of Islamic terrorism.

I think almost everyone does that. Only morons ignore Islamic terrorism.

[Goddess]

8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

As I wrote...I wonder who is correct?

I suppose we can ask ourselves that question after Canada has its first public stoning of an adulteress or for somebody making light of the Quran.

Well, the world is being taught a lesson by Islam about that.  Charlie Hebdo massacre over a cartoon,  Theo Van Gogh assassination for making a movie, Hirsi Ali death fatwa and needs bodyguards because she wrote a book, riots and killings in every country where their religious sensitivities are "offended", etc, etc.

Perhaps Dia is just trying to save our lives......

Her advice is to "submit".

Edited November 27, 2019 by Goddess

[Argus]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

You and many other people in Canada don't want government deficits, but look - it happens anyway.  Plenty of people in Canada don't want the Trans Mountain pipeline - but the Government

If you're attempting to suggest such laws go against the will of the people the PEW research polls flatly contradict you. Such laws, even the most violent ones calling for death for adultery and blaspheme, are overwhelmingly supported in most of the Muslim world.

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

But I suppose that research also reveals that Muslims are not a monolithic block of  gay-killing misogynistic oppressors, so not suitable for your argument.

Perhaps if 57 Muslim states around the world did not act so very much like a monolithic bloc you'd have a point.

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

I think you are racist, but you are not "all conservatives." 

I have no doubt at all you are a racist. You'd be condemning Islam wholeheartedly were it not for them being brown. You, like other liberal bigots, judge people mainly by their skin colour, and excuse poor behaviour by non-whites because you don't think they're really human.  You are the worst sort of unapologetic racist.

 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

I have said, many times, that Islam supports things like misogyny and homophobia, just as Christianity does. 

This is your standard excuse for Islamic extremism.  Because Islam acts, in some ways, like Christianity did long ago you want to pretend they're the same. Well, they're not. Christianity has evolved. Islam has not. In fact, Islam is not only not becoming more liberal it is growing more extreme, more violent, and less tolerant towards any deviation from their holy books.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Argus

[dialamah]

19 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Actually, you have done this quite often.

You mean, when I point out the lack of demonizing men as a counterpoint to the regular demonizing of Muslims?  Sometimes I seriously wonder about your reading comprehension.