Reasons why women are atheists....

[The_Squid]

...according to Pat Robertson:

1 - They are posessed by demons

2 - They were raped

Does that seem like a comprehensive list as to why a woman would be an atheist?

Personally, I think there could be a few more reasons...

“I don’t know if you’re dealing with something that is demonic or something that is deeply ingrained,” Robertson announces. “It’s something beyond normal human experience, something has happened and she associates God — maybe she had an abusive father, somebody who raped her and then acted like he was preaching to her from the Bible, you just never know what is going on in somebody’s childhood.”

Don’t want to talk about God? Yes, you must be posed by demons, or you were raped by your father.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/pat-robertson-aversion-to-co-workers-preaching-about-god-may-be-demonic/news/2014/03/24/84783

[Guest]

Maybe they were raped by demons. Pat was. That's why he's so pissed off.

[Wilber]

Of course it would never occur to Robertson that he is probably responsible for turning far more people off religion than bringing them to it.

[overthere]

there is another that bumps and trumps the other two down from the #1 reason women are atheists:

1. Women have a brain.*

*( I believe that is an actual scientific fact. I know Waldo will demand a cite on that and I apologize in advance for not having it.).

[Mighty AC]

Like slavery, misogyny was a normal, accepted part of life back when men were creating the Abrahamic religions. Many religions have put the practice behind them, but some are lagging. Slavery in religion followed the same path.

When slavery fell out of favour in most cultures, many religions clamored to update their beliefs and pretend that their "good book" didn't really advocate such an evil practice. Sure, this process lead to schisms as some refused to let go of the idea that people should be property, but inevitably humans proved to have superior morals to the gods and religious beliefs were revised.

The ridiculous excuses created by apologists to explain why some scriptures are the word of a god and must be adhered to, yet in other cases god was just kidding probably caused many to examine their belief systems. I suspect this process leads many formerly faithful to chose a secular path instead. Similarly, I suspect the mistreatment of women by religious practices, lead many to begin to question and investigate the validity of their beliefs. I think that once the door is opened and people examine religion with the same rational and reasonable judgement we use for everything else then atheism is inevitable.

That being said the number of male atheists tend to outnumber the female. I wonder why? I've read that women are less likely to "rock the boat" and make statements that would trouble or disappoint family and friends. Maybe the survey numbers are just off or women are less honest in surveys. For instance, 33% of Canadians that identify as Catholic also do not believe in a god. Or maybe demons just prefer to posses men.

[iolo]

It seems to me that define yourself as an atheist is to accept your opponent's terminology, a good excuse for a fight, but not a rational approach. People once believed that fires were caused by an element called 'phlogiston'. We don't believe that anymore, but we don't define ourselves as 'anti-phlogistonists'. Women feel less need to have aimless punch-ups, I expect.

Edited March 25, 2014 by iolo

[Mighty AC]

The term atheist has been misused and then meaning distorted so much that many who lack belief in deities still prefer not to use it. I think that's why "none" is the fastest growing religious position. I also suspect you're right about women being more inclined to avoid confrontation.

However, the reason we don't label our position on phlogiston isn't because we no longer believe the theory, it's because nobody does. At one point scientists of the day would have labeled themselves as being in one camp or the other. Today, for example, we no longer label ourselves as being for or against slavery but we do take positions on many other issues. We can be pro-choice, anti-abortion, pro-equal marriage, anti-gay marriage, etc. One day in the near future when the vast majority of us are on the same page, we will no longer need those labels either.

[carepov]

Like slavery, misogyny was a normal, accepted part of life back when men were creating the Abrahamic religions. Many religions have put the practice behind them, but some are lagging. Slavery in religion followed the same path.

When slavery fell out of favour in most cultures, many religions clamored to update their beliefs and pretend that their "good book" didn't really advocate such an evil practice. Sure, this process lead to schisms as some refused to let go of the idea that people should be property, but inevitably humans proved to have superior morals to the gods and religious beliefs were revised.

The ridiculous excuses created by apologists to explain why some scriptures are the word of a god and must be adhered to, yet in other cases god was just kidding probably caused many to examine their belief systems. I suspect this process leads many formerly faithful to chose a secular path instead. Similarly, I suspect the mistreatment of women by religious practices, lead many to begin to question and investigate the validity of their beliefs. I think that once the door is opened and people examine religion with the same rational and reasonable judgement we use for everything else then atheism is inevitable.

There are a few facts that do not fit with your theory:

1. The principle driving force behind abolishing the slave trade was led by religious individuals and groups:

http://www.antislavery.org/includes/documents/cm_docs/2012/8/8_summer_2010_history.pdf

2. If atheism is so great, then

a.) why are there so few atheists and atheist societies? Note: The door has been opened and people have been examining religion for a long long time.

b.) why do those societies with the most atheists seem no better than comparable more religious societies: (Sexism in Japan, Domestic Violence in Russia, Human Rights in China...)?

[guyser]

2. If atheism is so great, then

a.) why are there so few atheists and atheist societies? Note: The door has been opened and people have been examining religion for a long long time.

What are they going to meet about?

"meeting starts now folks....hands up those who dont believe in any god?"

"meeting adjourned"

I have yet to come across any opposites to Soccer Fan Clubs, Football fan clubs , Hockey Fan clubs...have you ?

[carepov]

What are they going to meet about?

"meeting starts now folks....hands up those who dont believe in any god?"

"meeting adjourned"

I have yet to come across any opposites to Soccer Fan Clubs, Football fan clubs , Hockey Fan clubs...have you ?

Well, yes, check this out: http://sundayassembly.com/

[guyser]

Well, yes, check this out: http://sundayassembly.com/

Well I'll be damned. Who knew ?

Kind of wonder about them tho...."Everyone is welcome, regardless of their beliefs – this is a place of love that is open and accepting."

[Mighty AC]

1. The principle driving force behind abolishing the slave trade was led by religious individuals and groups:

http://www.antislavery.org/includes/documents/cm_docs/2012/8/8_summer_2010_history.pdf

You're missing the point. Human morals are superior to the supposed word of their gods. Religious humans have decided to ignore, hide and explain away many of their immoral scriptures. It happened with slavery and racism; misogyny and homophobia are currently in the works. Religious humans ignoring immoral scriptures illustrates that morality is born of civilized society rather than the gods. The process of humans reinventing the word of gods leads many to think critically about their belief systems. I would also expect those bullied by religion, like women and homosexuals, to come to this conclusion faster than those who are favoured by it.

2. If atheism is so great, then

a.) why are there so few atheists and atheist societies? Note: The door has been opened and people have been examining religion for a long long time.

b.) why do those societies with the most atheists seem no better than comparable more religious societies: (Sexism in Japan, Domestic Violence in Russia, Human Rights in China...)?

What is an atheist society? Most western nations are secular, allowing freedom of religion and from religion, with barriers between church and state. Many of the happiest, healthiest, most educated and prosperous nations in the world are also among the least religious. Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Hong Kong, UK, Finland, France, Australia, New Zealand, Germany are all among the top 20 nations for ranking religion as unimportant.

Religiosity is in sharp decline, but many are unwilling to label themselves with the misused terms of atheist or agnostic. Large percentages of the population in most developed nations state that they do not believe in a god (Canada - 30%, EU - 49%) yet only a small number will actually use the atheist label despite it meaning the same thing.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Black Dog]

There are a few facts that do not fit with your theory:

1. The principle driving force behind abolishing the slave trade was led by religious individuals and groups:

http://www.antislavery.org/includes/documents/cm_docs/2012/8/8_summer_2010_history.pdf

And slavery was also justified and perpetuated on religious grounds (the Curse of Ham).

2. If atheism is so great, then

a.) why are there so few atheists and atheist societies? Note: The door has been opened and people have been examining religion for a long long time.

Atheism as an actual social movement is IMO relatively new.

b.) why do those societies with the most atheists seem no better than comparable more religious societies: (Sexism in Japan, Domestic Violence in Russia, Human Rights in China...)?

Japan is atheist?

[overthere]

1. The principle driving force behind abolishing the slave trade was led by religious individuals and groups:

Bogus.

At the time of abolition of slavery, for the most part churches were the most powerful social groups in the West were churches. They had far, far more influence on every aspect of life.

Atheism was rare , or rather it was not smart or profitable to proclaim your lack of faith.

[carepov]

You're missing the point. Human morals are superior to the supposed word of their gods. Religious humans have decided to ignore, hide and explain away many of their immoral scriptures. It happened with slavery and racism; misogyny and homophobia are currently in the works. Religious humans ignoring immoral scriptures illustrates that morality is born of civilized society rather than the gods.

IMO, the vast majority of religious people today realize, like you and I, that "religious scriptures" are written by humans "warts and all" and agree with us that "morality is born of civilized society rather than the gods". Your argument applies only to the religious extreemists/literalists.

The process of humans reinventing the word of gods leads many to think critically about their belief systems. I would also expect those bullied by religion, like women and homosexuals, to come to this conclusion faster than those who are favoured by it.

No one is "bullied by religion". People (mis)use religious arguments to violate human rights. The focus should be on the violation of human rights.

An aquaintance of mine is a homosexual woman minister, she certainly has thought critically of her beleif systems and has come to conclusions much different than yours. I suspect that you are making too many assumptions about what people's religious beliefs actually are.

What is an atheist society? Most western nations are secular, allowing freedom of religion and from religion, with barriers between church and state. Many of the happiest, healthiest, most educated and prosperous nations in the world are also among the least religious. Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Hong Kong, UK, Finland, France, Australia, New Zealand, Germany are all among the top 20 nations for ranking religion as unimportant.

Religiosity is in sharp decline, but many are unwilling to label themselves with the misused terms of atheist or agnostic. Large percentages of the population in most developed nations state that they do not believe in a god (Canada - 30%, EU - 49%) yet only a small number will actually use the atheist label despite it meaning the same thing.

OK then, where's the problem?

"Better" countries are on average less religious. I argue that this is a correlation not a causal relationship. On the flipside, if religious countries on average emit less CO2 than non-religious countries - should we therefore promote religion to stop global warming?

[Mighty AC]

IMO, the vast majority of religious people today realize, like you and I, that "religious scriptures" are written by humans "warts and all" and agree with us that "morality is born of civilized society rather than the gods". Your argument applies only to the religious extreemists/literalists.

No, I think you're wrong here. I think most religious people believe in the supernatural and feel the Bible is the word of god, sent through men.

No one is "bullied by religion". People (mis)use religious arguments to violate human rights. The focus should be on the violation of human rights.

Right. People as well as large religious groups do use religious arguments to mistreat, discriminate and even violate human rights. That is what I referred to as bullying.

"Better" countries are on average less religious. I argue that this is a correlation not a causal relationship.

Of course it is just a correlation. Religiosity is inversely proportional to most "good" societal statistics like education, health, crime and income distribution. When people's needs are being met they don't need a religious crutch. It was a stat cited in response to your comment that somehow "atheistic" societies are problematic.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Bonam]

b.) why do those societies with the most atheists seem no better than comparable more religious societies: (Sexism in Japan, Domestic Violence in Russia, Human Rights in China...)?

Why compare to those countries instead of to northern Europe?

[carepov]

No, I think you're wrong here. I think most religious people believe in the supernatural and feel the Bible is the word of god, sent through men.

I cannot support my opinion for now we'll have to agree to disagree.

It was a stat cited in response to your comment that somehow "atheistic" societies are problematic.

I do not think "atheist" societies are problematic - just no better than the current "mildly religious societies".

My position is that we should not divide people along religious and non-religious lines. Religious people deserve as much respect as non-religious people. Religion has been, and continues to be used both positively and negatively.

IMO insulting and stereotyping religious people is counterproductive - it feeds the influence of extremists

[carepov]

Why compare to those countries instead of to northern Europe?

Because I want to refute any notions along the lines of: if we just got rid of religion then we would reduce x

Where x is: "human rights violations", "sexism", "domestic violence", "stupidity", etc...

[Mighty AC]

IMO insulting and stereotyping religious people is counterproductive - it feeds the influence of extremists

I don't think I am stereotyping the religious. Many very large religious sects are blatantly misogynistic. I simply said that those bullied by their religion, like women and homosexuals are by many sects, should leave religion behind at a greater rate than those who are favoured by those same sects. The only possible stereotype that I can detect was that women are less likely to seek confrontation than men.

[carepov]

Atheism as an actual social movement is IMO relatively new.

Why is that? Why are there no atheist societies? If atheism is superior, then as per social Darwinism, it should have been adopted by the most successful societies, no?

Japan is atheist?

I never said that. I said that Japan is one of the countries that has the most atheists:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/23/a-surprising-map-of-where-the-worlds-atheists-live/

[carepov]

I don't think I am stereotyping the religious. Many very large religious sects are blatantly misogynistic. I simply said that those bullied by their religion, like women and homosexuals are by many sects, should leave religion behind at a greater rate than those who are favoured by those same sects. The only possible stereotype that I can detect was that women are less likely to seek confrontation than men.

You often stereotype religious people as irrational, unreasonable or otherwise inferior to atheists. Here is but one example:

I think that once the door is opened and people examine religion with the same rational and reasonable judgement we use for everything else then atheism is inevitable.

[Bonam]

Because I want to refute any notions along the lines of: if we just got rid of religion then we would reduce x

Where x is: "human rights violations", "sexism", "domestic violence", "stupidity", etc...

Strawman. No one made such a claim. No one said that a lack of or a lower than average level of religion is a necessary and sufficient condition for an ideal society. That is obviously a preposterous claim. Many factors are required or helpful to achieve what we could consider an "ideal" society, and a lower level of religiosity is only one among many.

[WestCoastRunner]

What I find astounding is that there are no women weighing on this thread and this thread is directed towards women! Perhaps I could be wrong because I am not familiar enough with the names but it clearly looks like a male majority. I just found this thread so I need to collect my thoughts on what this thread is all about. I need to figure out if it is important enough for us women to respond to. As an athiest, I don't believe religion helps women in today's society, but I also have many friends and relatives who are deeply religious. Where are the women who can weigh in on this thread? This is a big problem with this site, there are not enough women.

[Mighty AC]

You often stereotype religious people as irrational, unreasonable or otherwise inferior to atheists. Here is but one example:

They are irrational and unreasonable. That's not a stereotype. I've explained several times that I view people that strongly hold on to any belief without evidence as irrational and unreasonable. That behaviour is generally harmful to society and in that I don't make a special case for the religious or "spiritual". In that regard I view the religious no different than those that believe in homeopathy, astrology or feng shui. I have a friend/teammate who is an atheist that totally believes in the healing powers of reiki. I call him irrational and unreasonable all the time but I usually phrase it more like "You're an effn' wing nut!"

"I'm like not religious, but l'm like totally spiritual."

"Oh yeah? I'm not honest but you're interesting."