Is Cross Border Shopping Unpatriotic ?

[The_Squid]

OK....lots of people are also employed across the border and would be there anyway. Obviously the vice products would drive certain behaviours above and beyond a gallon of milk. Do you have to declare the fuel purchase...say with a pickup that has dual tanks ?

No. Fuel is essentially duty free if it is in your tank.

[The_Squid]

Retailers are greedy? I think so, with the prices they sometimes charge.

If you've ever seen the parking lot of the Outlet mall in Niagara Falls, New York. It's mostly Ontario plates. The duty border guards collect wouldn't be an issue if a sizable amount of people didn't cross the border to shop.

But here's a cite for you.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cross-border-shopping-a-20b-economic-drain-1.1300236

Bank of Canada says 2% based on actual figures... Bank of Montreal speculates on their figure but doesn't seem to actually have a figure. Very odd just to throw it out there without any evidence to support the claim. Especially for an economist at a bank...

[Boges]

Bank of Canada says 2% based on actual figures... Bank of Montreal speculates on their figure but doesn't seem to actually have a figure. Very odd just to throw it out there without any evidence to support the claim. Especially for an economist at a bank...

So you're denying that a sizable amount of people cross-border shop? Or do you not believe retailers in Canada modify pricing to compete for people who cross border shop?

You know travel agents offer trips to outlet malls in the US just for shopping purposes. They wouldn't do that if there wasn't a demand.

I think the value of the Loonie will temper that significantly though, but when there was parity, people did it all the time.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Boges

[Shady]

Look, if you're going to make products and services here more expensive to fund your expansive socialism, expect that some people aren't going to want to pay double the price for the same good or service. But again, economics and logic and reason were never a strong suit of the left. The design policy based on what they think reality should be instead of what reality actually is.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I think you're being caught up with food, alcohol and tobacco. Those are where the greatest discounts can be found but most people who cross-border shop, I'd reckon, do it to buy cheap designer clothing and shoes.

Thanks...this is helpful. If people are cross border shopping for non-essentials, then I can understand why they would incur the "parasite" wrath of others. The impact on taxes and retail sales would be a factor. I'm trying to complete a profile for these shoppers, kinda like a YouTube posted here of a women who recorded video of her purposeful trip across the border with a definite mission plan.

Edited March 24, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

Look, if you're going to make products and services here more expensive to fund your expansive socialism, expect that some people aren't going to want to pay double the price for the same good or service. But again, economics and logic and reason were never a strong suit of the left. The design policy based on what they think reality should be instead of what reality actually is.

Agreed...that is the basic rub i guess. Some Canadians make that connection and are happy to pay, while others think that such people are "suckers". Is there any formal public "education" or provincial media ads that address this issue ?

If tires and car parts are as expensive as reported in Canada, I can see the draw. And to be sexist, women go nuts for discounted shoes!

[The_Squid]

So you're denying that a sizable amount of people cross-border shop? Or do you not believe retailers in Canada modify pricing to compete for people who cross border shop?

You know travel agents offer trips to outlet malls in the US just for shopping purposes. They wouldn't do that if there wasn't a demand.

I think the value of the Loonie will temper that significantly though, but when there was parity, people did it all the time.

No. Lots of people shop in the USA. But it won't be enough to influence retailers here, unless those retailers are right on the border and are losing the business. The drop in the loonie will

Look, if you're going to make products and services here more expensive to fund your expansive socialism, expect that some people aren't going to want to pay double the price for the same good or service. But again, economics and logic and reason were never a strong suit of the left. The design policy based on what they think reality should be instead of what reality actually is.

So "the left" sets retail prices? Interesting theory... lol You are too funny....

slow that flow.

[Shady]

No. Lots of people shop in the USA. But it won't be enough to influence retailers here, unless those retailers are right on the border and are losing the business. The drop in the loonie will

So "the left" sets retail prices? Interesting theory... lol You are too funny....

slow that flow.

The cost of business sets retail prices. So if you're going to put in place a high tax and regulatory burden, the same good or service will be more expensive than other places with lower tax and regulatory burdens. It's basic economics.

[Boges]

No. Lots of people shop in the USA. But it won't be enough to influence retailers here, unless those retailers are right on the border and are losing the business. The drop in the loonie will

I think when people knew the two currencies were the same and they could make apple to apple comparisons, many thought they were being ripped off. Of course there are other factors like the size of the market, taxes and minimum wage laws. But if you want to get a certain item, crossing the border isn't such a big deal.

They opened an outlet mall on the 401 in the Halton region. I'm pretty sure there was a demand to build that to compete with outlet malls in the US.

[Boges]

Thanks...this is helpful. If people are cross border shopping for non-essentials, then I can understand why they would incur the "parasite" wrath of others. The impact on taxes and retail sales would be a factor. I'm trying to complete a profile for these shoppers, kinda like a YouTube posted here of a women who recorded video of her purposeful trip across the border with a definite mission plan.

I don't think you can easily typecast the person that would shop across the border. Some are cheap, some just like to shop, some are looking for an actual deal on a large item, and some just do it cuz it's interesting to cross the border and shop for a day.

[The_Squid]

The cost of business sets retail prices. So if you're going to put in place a high tax and regulatory burden, the same good or service will be more expensive than other places with lower tax and regulatory burdens. It's basic economics.

The prices are higher even before the taxes, according tot he study in one of the links. Is that the fault of "the left"?

In BC and in Canada we have had so-called right wing governments for many years... and you still insist that "the left" is setting tax rates??

THE LEFT! THE LEFT!!! lol

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't think you can easily typecast the person that would shop across the border. Some are cheap, some just like to shop, some are looking for an actual deal on a large item, and some just do it cuz it's interesting to cross the border and shop for a day.

Roger that, but I am trying to understand the Canadian backlash to such shopping. Is it universal, or only for those buying non-essentials ? As a pesky American, I have no idea what it would be like to make such purchases based on scarcity and/or price. Buying stuff in Mexico was never for "essentials"....but I did like the donkey shows.

Some people will travel to another cross border state to buy illegal fireworks.

Edited March 24, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[TimG]

The cost of business sets retail prices. So if you're going to put in place a high tax and regulatory burden, the same good or service will be more expensive than other places with lower tax and regulatory burdens. It's basic economics.

Taxes and regulations are less than or comparable to US border states. If there is a difference in costs it comes from higher minimum wages and higher transportation costs (due to distance and gas taxes).

[Boges]

Roger that, but I am trying to understand the Canadian backlash to such shopping. Is it universal, or only for those buying non-essentials ? As a pesky American, I have no idea what it would be like to make such purchases based on scarcity and/or price. Buying stuff in Mexico was never for "essentials"....but I did like the donkey shows.

Some people will travel to another cross border state to buy illegal fireworks.

Some Americans come to Canada for the lower drinking age and all nude strip clubs.

[bleeding heart]

Hey, that's a helpful response. Good work.

[dre]

I would want a cite for this... because the cross border shopping traffic is probably small enough to have no impact on retailers in Canada, except for maybe some that are right on the border.

In any case it doesnt appear to be working... We are high domestic inflation for a lot of the types of things people shop cross border for. I wouldnt brand those people as unpatriotic though. I know a few families who shop for dairy and groceries down south, and they really dont have much choice.

At the end of the day stuff is cheaper down there because of hidden subsidies funded by borrowed money. The US is going deep into debt because they dont tax producers retailers, and things like fuel enough to balance the budget. And if they are stupid enough to give us free stuff, then Im not suprised people line up to take it.

Edited March 24, 2014 by dre

[bush_cheney2004]

Be a good Canadian....

I know this is going to be unpopular but I’m just going to come out and say it: cross-border shoppers are unpatriotic.

....I guess I understand why so many Canadians do their shopping in the land of the free. Thanks to economies of scale, fairer tariffs, more favourable labour costs and lower costs of doing business, most consumer products in the U.S. are cheaper.

...But do you realize — those of you who regularly cross border shop — what you're doing to Canada?

...To save a few bucks, you're costing our economy billions of dollars and thousands of jobs while killing hundreds of mom and pop businesses. Your cross-border shopping junkets cost our country's retail sector as much as $20 billion a year.

...And it’s getting worse.

...According to a report recently publicized by Liberal Senator Pierrette Ringuette, new rules that increased cross-border duty exemptions will result in an additional $340 million in duty free shopping a year and a further decrease in sales tax revenue of $40 million.

...That's tax revenue that could be used for health care, education or even tax cuts elsewhere.

...These are the same people I suspect, who in February, will be donning their Olympic Team Canada jerseys and cheering for the Canucks against the Yanks.

...At the risk of sounding harsh, can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?

...I'll admit, I have cross border shopped once or twice in the past few years. But this year I'm going to make an effort to do my Christmas shopping locally — even if it costs me a few extra dollars.

I'm going to be a good Canadian.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/let-good-canadians-not-cross-border-shopping-063736597.html

[Boges]

It appears that column was in response to the Black Friday craze.

You need to look no further than the fact that Canadian Retailers do Black Friday promotions in Canada, even though Canadian Thanksgiving is in October, to show the power of cross-border shopping.

The columnist is a bit off a party pooper. If you want to get in on the Black Friday hype, then all the power too you.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Boges

[bush_cheney2004]

It appears that column was in response to the Black Friday craze.

You need to look no further than the fact that Canadian Retailers do Black Friday promotions in Canada, even though Canadian Thanksgiving is in October, to show the power of cross-border shopping. ..

Just so I'm clear on this, Canadian retailers promote a "Black Friday" for the later U.S. Thanksgiving holiday (late November) ? Since this day is not a employee holiday for most Canadians, how is the turnout in Canada vs. crossing the border? Maybe they do both !

[Boges]

Just so I'm clear on this, Canadian retailers promote a "Black Friday" for the later U.S. Thanksgiving holiday (late November) ? Since this day is not a employee holiday for most Canadians, how is the turnout in Canada vs. crossing the border? Maybe they do both !

It's just a promotion to convince people not to cross-border shop. Then again it takes a special kind of shopper to be willing to do the "Black Friday" thing. A $200 TV isn't worth the stress of doing that would cause.

Black Friday is the unofficial start of the Holiday season, so it's not terribly surprising that people North of the border are receptive to it.

Previously the big shopping thing in Canada (and the rest of the commonwealth) is the day after Christmas known as Boxing Day. I don't think Americans officially have something call Boxing Day but I'd imagine sales are available after Christmas to get rid of excess stock.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's just a promotion to convince people not to cross-border shop. Then again it takes a special kind of shopper to be willing to do the "Black Friday" thing. A $200 TV isn't worth the stress of doing that would cause.

Agreed..I did it once just to get a radio controlled helicopter at a big-box store. Even at 5:30AM, the lines were incredibly long, people were very aggressive, and a woman tried to take stuff right out of my cart. I relented on a cheap price in favour of convenience, hiding the item in the plumbing department for retrieval and purchase later that night after doorbusting madness was over. The cashier asked me where I found the item, which sold out very early in the day.

Black Friday is the unofficial start of the Holiday season, so it's not terribly surprising that people North of the border are receptive to it.

Previously the big shopping thing in Canada (and the rest of the commonwealth) is the day after Christmas known as Boxing Day. I don't think Americans officially have something call Boxing Day but I'd imagine sales are available after Christmas to get rid of excess stock.

No Boxing Day per se, which Americans are aware of because it appears on many calendars, but there is a general clearance period of deep discounts after Christmas Day, particularly for seasonal items.

[cybercoma]

I don't think you can easily typecast the person that would shop across the border. Some are cheap, some just like to shop, some are looking for an actual deal on a large item, and some just do it cuz it's interesting to cross the border and shop for a day.

Some like to be able to go to bars and legally drink when they're 18 or 19 too.

[cybercoma]

Some Americans come to Canada for the lower drinking age and all nude strip clubs.

Beat me to it.

[Bryan]

No. Lots of people shop in the USA. But it won't be enough to influence retailers here, unless those retailers are right on the border and are losing the business.

Don't kid yourself. Retailers are increasingly faced with informed consumers who know what the value of the products they're buying are, and aren't afraid to say it. When they go in, and the product they're looking for is MUCH higher than than the price they found online, they let the retailer know why they are losing that sale.

It's not just people driving across to shop, cross-border e-commerce is huge. People are even combining the two, getting things shipped to a US border town, then driving down to pick them up -- it saves a lot of money on shipping. I have an account in Pembina, ND (right on the border), that I only pay a flat fee for when I use it. That way when I see something that's not only a better price, but has free shipping in the US (but prohibitively high shipping to Canada), I can still order it and save.

[August1991]

Cross border shopping? Buying abroad destroys our economy.

I buy local for all my purchases. I cover my windows in daytime and buy from Hydro-Quebec rather than use "cheap-labour" imported heat/light from the distant, foreign Sun.

The best way to develop our local economy is to refuse foreign imports. I urge everyone to avoid using low-cost, foreign, imported sunlight.

Indeed, to develop the Quebec economy, I favour a Quebec government policy that requires people to have homes with no windows but open doors. Without windows, people will buy light locally from Hydro-Quebec - rather than from a distant, foreign Sun. And with open doors in winter, people will encourage the local construction industry/employment.

Edited March 31, 2014 by August1991