GostHacked Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 According to your thinking, than we should invade Saudi Arabia. They are one of the most oppressive countries on the planet. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. They are part of the problem in the Middle East. We don't hear to much bad stuff about what goes on in there. But the reason why they are not taken to task has to do with oil and how much influence they have on the US. Quote
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 They are one of the most oppressive countries on the planet. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. They are part of the problem in the Middle East. We don't hear to much bad stuff about what goes on in there. But the reason why they are not taken to task has to do with oil and how much influence they have on the US. Yes actually women are oppressed very much here in Canada and other western countries! I believe almost every country, if not every country in the world still has noticeable oppression towards women. Kind of hypocritical thinking that Canada would occupy a country to improve human rights when we are still an violator. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
GostHacked Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Yes actually women are oppressed very much here in Canada and other western countries! WTF. Quote
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 WTF. I believe that there are many examples of sexism that are still continuing in Canada and other modern countries. But not at the same level as in other less developed countries. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Yes actually women are oppressed very much here in Canada and other western countries! True for several classes/groups of men, women, and children. The abuse of First Nations women and sex workers have been prominent in Canada. But that does not detract from the stated goal of interventions for human rights and R2P as a matter of government policy and means to an end. They are not mutually exclusive conditions, so missions to places like Afghanistan or Somalia get popular support. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 True for several classes/groups of men, women, and children. The abuse of First Nations women and sex workers have been prominent in Canada. But that does not detract from the stated goal of interventions for human rights and R2P as a matter of government policy and means to an end. They are not mutually exclusive conditions, so missions to places like Afghanistan or Somalia get popular support. Sorry but that would be saying that the Canadian government cares more about women rights in a foreign country more than Canada. That does not make sense. Therefore not true. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
GostHacked Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Women can vote in Canada. Women can drive in Canada. Yes they are sooooooooo oppressed in Canada. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Sorry but that would be saying that the Canadian government cares more about women rights in a foreign country more than Canada. That does not make sense. Therefore not true. It is very true....the Canadian government cares more about human rights in a foreign country when the expressed conditions for interventionist policies are met, often under the human rights / R2P concepts developed for and stemming from UN and other initiatives. However, such policy actions are not uniformly applied for several practical and geopolitical reasons. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Women can vote in Canada. Women can drive in Canada. Yes they are sooooooooo oppressed in Canada. Are woman getting equal pay for equal work straight across Canada? What about prostitutes that go missing? Do police dedicate the same resources as say another missing person? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 It is very true....the Canadian government cares more about human rights in a foreign country when the expressed conditions for interventionist policies are met, often under the human rights / R2P concepts developed for and stemming from UN and other initiatives. However, such policy actions are not uniformly applied for several practical and geopolitical reasons. Sounds like a load to me! Smoke and mirrors covering an aggressive foreign policy. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
GostHacked Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Are woman getting equal pay for equal work straight across Canada? This is drifting the thread. I'll stop. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Sounds like a load to me! Smoke and mirrors covering an aggressive foreign policy. OK....it is what it is. The concept was perfected by the Liberal Party (in Canada), and is indirectly responsible for the mission in Afghanistan, behind UN/NATO member support. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 This is drifting the thread. I'll stop. I don't believe so. We are challenging some of the reason for entering into the Afghan campaign through debate! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Army Guy Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 I spent 3 long tours in Afghanistan, alot of blood,sweat,tears were left behind...Did i think it was worth it. Yes i do, every minute i was there....don't get me wrong there were sometimes i questioned the WHY was i here....those moments were normally on the tarmac as we escorted another comrad's flag drapped coffin onto a herc for the long journey home...I would gladly do it all over again...Remember it was not Canada's soldiers that gave up on Afghanistan, it was her people.... Canadians can question the WHY anytime they want...But to call the mission a complete failure thats Bullshit.....Answer these questions .....Is Al Quida living and training and operating within Afghanistan...Or for that matter is the Taliban still in control of Afghanistan....Then ask your self this how many major reconstruction projects did Canada take on and complete, how many thousands of smaller projects did we do....do you think that these projects had any impact? The People of Afghanistan want peace, a place to raise their families, a place they can get work....and they are ready to talk to anyone that can supply those answers.... Perhaps we should take the question to the Afghanistan people. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
GostHacked Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 I don't believe so. We are challenging some of the reason for entering into the Afghan campaign through debate! WWWTT And none of those reasons has anything to do with the level of oppression towards woman that currently exists in Canada. Quote
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 OK....it is what it is. In the end you are right! But I don't sit on my hands. I write my MP! The one I have now sometimes writes back As far as I'm concerned, the Afghan mission was a waste of time and money and only made things worse! Negotiations from the start was always the better path to take! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 I spent 3 long tours in Afghanistan, alot of blood,sweat,tears were left behind...Did i think it was worth it. Yes i do, every minute i was there....don't get me wrong there were sometimes i questioned the WHY was i here....those moments were normally on the tarmac as we escorted another comrad's flag drapped coffin onto a herc for the long journey home...I would gladly do it all over again...Remember it was not Canada's soldiers that gave up on Afghanistan, it was her people.... Canadians can question the WHY anytime they want...But to call the mission a complete failure thats Bullshit.....Answer these questions .....Is Al Quida living and training and operating within Afghanistan...Or for that matter is the Taliban still in control of Afghanistan....Then ask your self this how many major reconstruction projects did Canada take on and complete, how many thousands of smaller projects did we do....do you think that these projects had any impact? The People of Afghanistan want peace, a place to raise their families, a place they can get work....and they are ready to talk to anyone that can supply those answers.... Perhaps we should take the question to the Afghanistan people. Why should Canada be responsible for a mess the US created? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
GostHacked Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Why should Canada be responsible for a mess the US created? WWWTT This is a very good point. Quote
PIK Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 I spent 3 long tours in Afghanistan, alot of blood,sweat,tears were left behind...Did i think it was worth it. Yes i do, every minute i was there....don't get me wrong there were sometimes i questioned the WHY was i here....those moments were normally on the tarmac as we escorted another comrad's flag drapped coffin onto a herc for the long journey home...I would gladly do it all over again...Remember it was not Canada's soldiers that gave up on Afghanistan, it was her people.... Canadians can question the WHY anytime they want...But to call the mission a complete failure thats Bullshit.....Answer these questions .....Is Al Quida living and training and operating within Afghanistan...Or for that matter is the Taliban still in control of Afghanistan....Then ask your self this how many major reconstruction projects did Canada take on and complete, how many thousands of smaller projects did we do....do you think that these projects had any impact? The People of Afghanistan want peace, a place to raise their families, a place they can get work....and they are ready to talk to anyone that can supply those answers.... Perhaps we should take the question to the Afghanistan people. Excellent post. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Army Guy Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Why should Canada be responsible for a mess the US created? WWWTT Funney that the majority of Canadians approved this very mission...They knew what we were going to do, we as a nation were going to force the taliban to their knees and destroy AQ means of making war....We as a nation knew that on day one....we were sending our troops into combat....There was no talk off cleaning up anything....we were supporting an allied, living up to our defensive agreements....we signed on to the War on Terror....no questions asked...people by the thousands showed up to wave goodbye, show their support.... At the very least answer this question, with all Canada has to offer why not help the people of Afghanistan have a chance at peace. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Why should Canada be responsible for a mess the US created? Because Canada is a member of NATO and has membership benefits and responsibilities. Canada also has a direct interest in counter-terroism and failed nation states that support same. Canada also acts on stated policies that support its interests. Remember, Afghanistan was the "just war" compared to Iraq...just ask Chretien. Edited March 14, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Perhaps we should take the question to the Afghanistan people. First off, thank you for serving. But being part of the military you are seen simply as a tool by the government to implement foreign policy. I hope you never need to go back out on tour, and I hope your scars, both seen and unseen are minimal and you are surrounded by caring family and friends. On your last point, that would have been a good question to ask before boots where put on the ground. What really was the goal in Afghanistan? Rule of law is very similar to what it was before. Still have threats of Al-queda and the Taliban. To think that these people have been eradicated from Afghanistan is simply a bad joke. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/03/us-afghanistan-election-idUSBRE9920FS20131003 Thu Oct 3, 2013 11:13am EDT <-- date of article. (Reuters) - The man said to be responsible for bringing al Qaeda to Afghanistan announced he was running for president on Thursday, a move likely to be greeted with apprehension by the international community. ......... "Today I nominate myself in order to serve my countrymen and my nation - I want to stand alongside the true servants of Afghanistan," Abdul Rassoul Sayyaf told Reuters minutes before he registered at the offices of Kabul's Independent Election Commission. Looks like he was a pal of good ol Bin Laden. I am not sure what those reconstruction projects are, but I'll do a search for them. Quote
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Funney that the majority of Canadians approved this very mission...They knew what we were going to do, we as a nation were going to force the taliban to their knees and destroy AQ means of making war....We as a nation knew that on day one....we were sending our troops into combat....There was no talk off cleaning up anything....we were supporting an allied, living up to our defensive agreements....we signed on to the War on Terror....no questions asked...people by the thousands showed up to wave goodbye, show their support.... At the very least answer this question, with all Canada has to offer why not help the people of Afghanistan have a chance at peace. Last night I saw a CBC poll that says that well over 80% of Canadians feel the mission was a failure! I'm sorry but NATO is a waste of Canadian resources. I'm fully aware of the huge errors made of previous governments. Meanwhile there are two Canadians missing on that Malaysian flight and not one Canadian vessel helping in the search. Sad wrong and stupid all at the same time. Canada can do lots to help other countries find peace, but not through war. I believe our debate is there. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Because Canada is a member of NATO and has membership benefits and responsibilities. Canada also has a direct interest in counter-terroism and failed nation states that support same. Canada also acts on stated policies that support its interests. Remember, Afghanistan was the "just war" compared to Iraq...just ask Chretien. Circumstantial evidence is not proof of an invasion. Never said I agreed with belonging to NATO either. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Circumstantial evidence is not proof of an invasion. Never said I agreed with belonging to NATO either. Canada can leave NATO/NORAD/UN whenever it pleases, but it won't because of the expressed need and desire for a collective security. That means deploying resources abroad and asking Canadian Forces to engage, something they are professionally trained and personally motivated to do. They don't ask for guarantees of success or glory...they just do their duty. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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