Boeing 777 Disappears Near Vietnam

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't need links, It was my occupation for over three decades.

I'm trying to be helpful

The old conspiracy theorists are out in full force with this one. I don't recall more nonsense floating around since 9/11. A friend of mines dad reckons it went to Diego Garcia where it sits on standby for another 9/11. He's old, a tad senile and harmless so you have to humor him. I was gonna ask you if you know on the 777 if the engines went out would that tell the FMS to disengage altitude hold and worry more about stall speed etc. Might make a fair difference as to it's arrival in the briny. I'm assuming here of course that by that time the crew was "offline" as well.

Cheers.

Edited April 6, 2014 by On Guard for Thee

[Wilber]

The old conspiracy theorists are out in full force with this one. I don't recall more nonsense floating around since 9/11. A friend of mines dad reckons it went to Diego Garcia where it sits on standby for another 9/11. He's old, a tad senile and harmless so you have to humor him. I was gonna ask you if you know on the 777 if the engines went out would that tell the FMS to disengage altitude hold and worry more about stall speed etc. Might make a fair difference as to it's arrival in the briny. I'm assuming here of course that by that time the crew was "offline" as well.

Cheers.

I was never on the 777 but I would be really surprised if a total AC failure didn't trip the auto pilot off. If it stayed wings level it should just glide at its last trimmed speed.

[On Guard for Thee]

I was never on the 777 but I would be really surprised if a total AC failure didn't trip the auto pilot off. If it stayed wings level it should just glide at its last trimmed speed.

That makes sense to me. I was thinking of a situation were an electrical fire takes out the crew, but redundancy keeps the airplane under control, until fuel starvation of course, followed by a water landing were the airplane hangs together and sinks. No fuel slick, no floaty bits, but of course the pinger goes off with water infiltration. You would think though that a 406 might have activated and sent out a px report, at least at impact.

[Wilber]

That makes sense to me. I was thinking of a situation were an electrical fire takes out the crew, but redundancy keeps the airplane under control, until fuel starvation of course, followed by a water landing were the airplane hangs together and sinks. No fuel slick, no floaty bits, but of course the pinger goes off with water infiltration. You would think though that a 406 might have activated and sent out a px report, at least at impact.

It's a puzzle alright. If they lost power did they manage to restore it? If not, would the aircraft remain stable enough to fly for hours on its own with the AP off? Who knows. It might explain some of the reports of altitude changes. Sure hope they find the data recorder.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Wilber

[On Guard for Thee]

It's a puzzle alright. If they lost power did they manage to restore it? If not, would the aircraft remain stable enough to fly for hours on its own with the AP off? Who knows. It might explain some of the reports of altitude changes. Sure hope they find the data recorder.

I would guess that stability would be affected somewhat by the cg change with the fuel burn There are a few things that irk me with some of the press coverage, I guess one of the main ones is they keep stating that the xponder was turned off intentionally. They can't find the a/c but the press seems to know details of somebody reaching over and flipping a small switch. I guess they've never overloaded a circuit in their house and had a breaker blow.

[Wilber]

I would guess that stability would be affected somewhat by the cg change with the fuel burn There are a few things that irk me with some of the press coverage, I guess one of the main ones is they keep stating that the xponder was turned off intentionally. They can't find the a/c but the press seems to know details of somebody reaching over and flipping a small switch. I guess they've never overloaded a circuit in their house and had a breaker blow.

Hard to find systems information but its fuel system seems similar to the 767. I'm wondering about lateral trim. Lateral balance is maintained as long as the center tank is supplying, once it is empty, fuel is supplied tank to engine from the outboards. Usually, there is enough difference in fuel burn between engines that there will be some kind of imbalance during the flight. Normally the crew will cross feed at some point to even them up. If it hasn't been done already, you can bet there are guys doing simulator profiles on all these scenarios as we speak. Plus a bunch more we haven't though of.

Press coverage of aviation incidents can be tough to watch at times.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Wilber

[On Guard for Thee]

Hard to find systems information but its fuel system seems similar to the 767. I'm wondering about lateral trim. Lateral balance is maintained as long as the center tank is supplying, once it is empty, fuel is supplied tank to engine from the outboards. Usually, there is enough difference in fuel burn between engines that there will be some kind of imbalance during the flight. Normally the crew will cross feed at some point to even them up. If it hasn't been done already, you can bet there are guys doing simulator profiles on all these scenarios as we speak. Plus a bunch more we haven't though of.

Press coverage of aviation incidents can be tough to watch at times.

Yes that's true, one stove burning a little brighter for a few hours and so much for wings level.

[Wilber]

Yes that's true, one stove burning a little brighter for a few hours and so much for wings level.

Kind of unknown territory because it is never done.

[WWWTT]

If the airplane went in under autopilot control, it may not have broken up much and those big chunks would sink. If it went in out of control the big bits (with the pinger) would still have sunk. The little bits would by now have drifted hundreds of miles in the wind and wave. so you could easily stumble across the ping with nothing else in view.

I believe you are entering into making some wild speculations here.

To detect the pulses, I believe that one only has to be in an wide area to pick it up.

I do not know how wide of an area. Is it several miles? Dozens of miles? Or hundreds of miles?

And why are they picking up pulses, but never seen the debris?

I can see your point if the Chinese just jumped to the location in question from hundreds or thousands of miles away, but I believe they would be following some kind of search grid or pattern.

Just have to wait and see what comes out of it. But I would imagine that if this is something worthy, we'll find out soon enough.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

That makes sense to me. I was thinking of a situation were an electrical fire takes out the crew, but redundancy keeps the airplane under control, until fuel starvation of course, followed by a water landing were the airplane hangs together and sinks. No fuel slick, no floaty bits, but of course the pinger goes off with water infiltration. You would think though that a 406 might have activated and sent out a px report, at least at impact.

That makes sense to you????

That is one of the most bizarre scenarios I have yet heard!

I think there would be a better chance of an 18 year old Iranian terrorist, capable of disabling the entire crew, then taking over the plane!

Unless of course it happened before and you can provide the link?

You are again, ignoring crucial known and well documented facts and emergency procedures to support your theory!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

I would guess that stability would be affected somewhat by the cg change with the fuel burn There are a few things that irk me with some of the press coverage, I guess one of the main ones is they keep stating that the xponder was turned off intentionally. They can't find the a/c but the press seems to know details of somebody reaching over and flipping a small switch. I guess they've never overloaded a circuit in their house and had a breaker blow.

Well at least you admit that you don't like the facts here!

That's to be expected when the facts don't fit your theory, just throw away the facts and your theory works!

Here are some good links for a SERIOUS debate/discussion:

http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV7hYR0FTgT4ARisXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNW1iMWN2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1396815833/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.itsyourplane.com%2fgenerator.asp%3fa%3dboeing777-200/RK=0/RS=ocx_jhQdIBr83mH0wrI.7nNG2sw-

http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV7hYR0FTgT4AQisXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZDBpbXI5BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1396815833/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2finsurance-technology.tmcnet.com%2fnews%2f2011%2f03%2f08%2f5361317.htm/RK=0/RS=K_3uIBDJEmkKED7i1ZLqsKvrQfs-

http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV7hYR0FTgT4APisXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByODJtaWUzBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1396815833/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2faircraftengineering.wordpress.com%2f2013%2f01%2f15%2fboeing-777-200%2f/RK=0/RS=VYP8b00WnmQStcGi.rOAuyUVAK4-

And here's another one that you guys just don't want to here, but is fact!

http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV7hYR0FTgT4APCsXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybnV2cXQwBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1396815833/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fnews.naij.com%2f61834.html/RK=0/RS=rtGMTKe2EBxgGzSek8bBZVvnFuQ-

And here's one with some professional opinions about the transponders (apparently there is 2!)

http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVilJSkFT_RkADRUXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByODJtaWUzBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1396816585/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fmetronews.ca%2fnews%2fworld%2f975125%2fmh370-why-would-a-pilot-want-to-turn-off-a-transponder-anyway%2f/RK=0/RS=Oo6FquiQTJeb9EEZ6KByXW7sjgs-

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Ok here's a bunch of links as to where this is going.

http://bit.ly/1fVP6Rk

And then more about a witness, claiming the plane was escorted by fighter jets.

http://intellihub.com/girlfriend-370-passenger-wood-fighter-jets-accompanied-flight-370-secret-militarized-operation-husband-still-alive/

Also now there's a story about actual GPS co ordinates and a distress message.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/shock-claim-flight-370-diego-garcia-per-gps-data/

And of course, an actual photo of the alleged runway where the plane allegedly landed!

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/breaking-hijacked-flight-370-passenger-sent-photo-hidden-iphone-tracing-back-secret-u-s-military-base-diego-garcia/

WWWTT

[On Guard for Thee]

And reading all these checklists is supposed to tell me what exactly? I've been looking at 'em for 30 years. They are a plan of what is supposed to happen, which is obviously not what did happen in this case. There could be a ton of reasons why however the links I see here so far seem to be like minded conspiracy theories. It's possible any one of them could be true, however a proper investigation requires collecting the known facts applying sound logic to see where they most likely point. Yes, one pilot could have killed the other and then flew to empty tanks and then plowed it into the ocean. Given what they tell us about the background of this crew that somehow seems less likely than some sort of serious malfunction. It could have been snatched by aliens I suppose, so should we launch a space probe?

[WWWTT]

And reading all these checklists is supposed to tell me what exactly? I've been looking at 'em for 30 years. They are a plan of what is supposed to happen, which is obviously not what did happen in this case. There could be a ton of reasons why however the links I see here so far seem to be like minded conspiracy theories. It's possible any one of them could be true, however a proper investigation requires collecting the known facts applying sound logic to see where they most likely point. Yes, one pilot could have killed the other and then flew to empty tanks and then plowed it into the ocean. Given what they tell us about the background of this crew that somehow seems less likely than some sort of serious malfunction. It could have been snatched by aliens I suppose, so should we launch a space probe?

Actually I provided the links for ALL the members to view!

As far as your claim of 30 years, wasn't Wilber the one that claimed he had 30 years experience?

Anyways, you still wish to deny "the known facts" to fit your crash theory.

As well, I have not heard/read anything about the "background" of the crew that would draw some kind of hostile profile as you have suggested authorities have made. Can you provide the link of where you came across this information. I recall hearing about the authorities were looking into the possibility, but nothing ever came out of that as far as I recall. After all, the more true facts that we have, the more possible actual scenario can be found.

And I think you're on your own with your theory that the plane was abducted by "Space Aliens". However I would find it entertaining to read if you were to elaborate!

WWWTT

[On Guard for Thee]

Actually I provided the links for ALL the members to view!

As far as your claim of 30 years, wasn't Wilber the one that claimed he had 30 years experience?

Anyways, you still wish to deny "the known facts" to fit your crash theory.

As well, I have not heard/read anything about the "background" of the crew that would draw some kind of hostile profile as you have suggested authorities have made. Can you provide the link of where you came across this information. I recall hearing about the authorities were looking into the possibility, but nothing ever came out of that as far as I recall. After all, the more true facts that we have, the more possible actual scenario can be found.

And I think you're on your own with your theory that the plane was abducted by "Space Aliens". However I would find it entertaining to read if you were to elaborate!

WWWTT

There are more than one pilot in the world. And I said only that I had been reading checklists for 30 years. I did a lot of single pilot work before that were we didn't use checklists so much. They did an in depth look at the crew background, even taking the simulator the captain had in his house to see what he had been up to with that and interviewing friends and relatives of both. Nothing they have come up with from that indicates anything sisnister. The "space aliens" comment was tongue in cheek in case you didn't get that. I suggest you consult some other conspiracy theorist for elaboratioin on that.

[WWWTT]

There are more than one pilot in the world. And I said only that I had been reading checklists for 30 years. I did a lot of single pilot work before that were we didn't use checklists so much. They did an in depth look at the crew background, even taking the simulator the captain had in his house to see what he had been up to with that and interviewing friends and relatives of both. Nothing they have come up with from that indicates anything sisnister. The "space aliens" comment was tongue in cheek in case you didn't get that. I suggest you consult some other conspiracy theorist for elaboratioin on that.

Oh sorry I thought you were suggesting that you heard authorities thought something was up with the crew.

However there is no evidence of a serious malfunction causing this plane to vanish.

It is now well known that the transponder was manually shut off and this plane flew back into Malaysia's air space where it should have been tracked by military ground radar. Even out over the coastline and over the ocean in some cases as I have read. But over land for sure!

But you and Wilber just don't want to even acknowledge these facts! You have even written that the authorities claim that the transponder WAS manually turned off ticks you off!

So far, from what I have read, it is the crash scenario due to an accident that seems the least likely.(but more possible than your pet space alien theory)

Followed by the plane being commandeered by a rouge pilot, then crashing it.

And the most likely scenario right now from looking at the evidence is that the plane was commandeered and landed somewhere,but where I have no clue?

If new evidence comes out then of course everything changes. But only if that would be a black box and plane wreckage. It would be super bizarre if only the black box turned up with no wreckage and/or bodies.

Let me remind everyone that there is absolutely no evidence that the plane crashed! The relatives/family/friends of those on board, from my understanding, believe that this plane safely landed as it was designed, built and vigorously tested to do just that! The family and friends of those on board are probably the most informed civilians of this case and are day in and day out, probably armed with lawyers, asking the most in depth questions and keeping the best records of all the evidence released! If they believe that this plane likely safely landed, I am confident that this belief is sound!

WWWTT

[Michael Hardner]

Followed by the plane being commandeered by a rouge pilot, then crashing it.

Oh, come on - are you serious ? Rouge ?

[TimG]

Oh, come on - are you serious ? Rouge ?

As if an Air Canada leisure airline pilot would take over a Malaysian plane. Edited April 6, 2014 by TimG

[Wilber]

There are more than one pilot in the world. And I said only that I had been reading checklists for 30 years. I did a lot of single pilot work before that were we didn't use checklists so much. They did an in depth look at the crew background, even taking the simulator the captain had in his house to see what he had been up to with that and interviewing friends and relatives of both. Nothing they have come up with from that indicates anything sisnister. The "space aliens" comment was tongue in cheek in case you didn't get that. I suggest you consult some other conspiracy theorist for elaboratioin on that.

We come from different backgrounds but our ideas are pretty consistent. Almost my whole career was regulated by checklists and I had a hand in writing a few of them. The way I see it, the main possibilities are technical problems, someone went rogue or managed to commandeer the aircraft, or a giant conspiracy. Weather doesn't seem to be a factor. The least likely being the conspiracy, if for no other reason than it is the most complicated and would be the hardest to keep secret.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Wilber

[Wilber]

As if an Air Canada leisure airline pilot would take over a Malaysian plane.

Didn't know Rouge was operating 777's. Interesting. Got a link for it?

[WWWTT]

Oh, come on - are you serious ? Rouge ?

Haha! Rogue!

The grammar nazi strikes again!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

As if an Air Canada leisure airline pilot would take over a Malaysian plane.

Didn't know Rouge was operating 777's. Interesting. Got a link for it?

Sorry, don't have a link about how you mistook a spelling error could ever be your newest strongest to date debating platform!

But here, enjoy the company your with now!

http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVr8M80FTpVQAd7MXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybnV2cXQwBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1396859789/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.youtube.com%2fwatch%3fv%3dN4vf8N6GpdM/RK=0/RS=LA9_gqZnVs52DXXBv4FPFqEcBVE-

WWWTT

[Big Guy]

We come from different backgrounds but our ideas are pretty consistent. Almost my whole career was regulated by checklists and I had a hand in writing a few of them. The way I see it, the main possibilities are technical problems, someone went rogue or managed to commandeer the aircraft, or a giant conspiracy. Weather doesn't seem to be a factor. The least likely being the conspiracy, if for no other reason than it is the most complicated and would be the hardest to keep secret.

Interesting. What do you suggest should change or be done so that this kind of event would never happen again?

[WWWTT]

Interesting. What do you suggest should change or be done so that this kind of event would never happen again?

That's a funny request.

You are assuming that the cause for the planes disappearance is known.

WWWTT

[On Guard for Thee]

Haha! Rogue!

The grammar nazi strikes again!

WWWTT

What I see in your posts and a lot of the links are assumptions. Xponder issue for one. Would you agree there are basically 2 reasons why a light goes off in your house: 1 you turn it off, 2 the bulb burns out. Now if I lived a cross the road from you and saw your light go out, I would likely assume you turned it off. But if I'm not IN your house, I,m making an assumption. All these people who claim the xponder was shut off, weren't in that cockpit. Turning off a xponder is as easy as turning off a light. But if it burned out like your light bulb, the effect to the ATC radar would be like me seeing your light go out across the road. The observer would have no idea why it went out. And nor would any CNN reporter.